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Roman is offline Roman
King
Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 03:54
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So fellow Europeans, how shall we reform Europe? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Again an article from my favourite BBC designed to spark a debate.

quote:

Thursday, 22 November, 2001, 15:16 GMT
EU warns on 'wealth gap'


Europe has been slow to adopt new technology

Unless Europe quickly learns to innovate and adopt new technologies, its standard of living will fall ever further behind the US, the European Commission has warned.
Erkki Liikanen, European Commissioner for Enterprise, said that average wealth per head in the EU was just two-thirds of that in the US.

This gap is the widest since the 1960s.

According to a report from Mr Liikanen's department, European industry has insufficiently invested in new technologies, despite the fact that they have become vastly cheaper in recent years.

The resulting failure to innovate has dented average productivity per European worker, while US firms have become more efficient.

Corporate investment in information technology is equivalent to 2.4% of Europe's economic output, compared with a US figure of 4.5%, Mr Liikanen said.

Image problem

Mr Liikanen's competitiveness report follows a period of soul-searching in Brussels, where officials are troubled about Europe's somewhat old-fashioned image.



Erkki Liikanen: Worried about wealth gap


The economic slowdown, accompanied by heavy lay-offs among some of Europe's most venerable companies, has exacerbated the situation, the commission feels.

Until recently, the layer of large and medium-sized manufacturing firms, especially highly concentrated in Germany, were viewed as the motor of Europe's economy.

But some economists now worry that these firms are incapable of delivering enough efficiency gains to power a world-beating surge in the standard of living.

Labour problems

In the meantime, widespread poverty and unemployment in Europe, especially at its fringes, mar its otherwise prosperous air.

Despite EU plans to fight joblessness, the continent is still way off the target of an overall employment level of 70%.

In the US, a far higher proportion of the population is in the labour force.

And because of their generally higher level of relevant skills, US workers are roughly one-third more productive than the EU average.

Getting riskier

A connected piece of research from Mr Liikanen's department gave some encouragement.

According to the so-called Enterprise Policy Scoreboard, Europe is becoming more entrepreneurial - the image of entrepreneurship has improved, and an increasing percentage of the population claimed to be willing to take business risks.

But compared with the US, a gap still yawns.

Mr Liikanen said that 70% of Americans have considered becoming self-employed, compared with only half of Europeans.

Many Europeans are put off setting up businesses by the looming mountain of red tape that firms are believed to face, Mr Liikanen said.



Clearly something needs to be done about that. We have to think about how to reform Europe to keep up with the US economically. Should Europe simply emulate the US, or do you have other suggestions? What aspects of the US system would you agree to copy.

Come on, lets get a discussion going.

red_jon is offline red_jon
King
Uni of Wales Swansea
Oct 2000
time: 05:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 03:57 Visit red_jon's homepage!
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WE SHOULD BE ASSIMILATED BY CHINA! AHAHAHAHAHAHA! :d

Bob Dornan is offline Bob Dornan
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Jan 1970
time: 05:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 03:57
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Cut taxes, more individual freedoms to the people, build up military, participate more strongly on American and pro freedom intiatives worldwide.

red_jon is offline red_jon
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Uni of Wales Swansea
Oct 2000
time: 05:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 03:59 Visit red_jon's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob Dornan
Cut taxes, more individual freedoms to the people, build up military, participate more strongly on American and pro freedom intiatives worldwide.


Then be assimilated by China.

Bob Dornan is offline Bob Dornan
Emperor

Jan 1970
time: 05:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 04:00
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You're a lot weirder than Giancarlo. It takes one to know one?

Ecthy is offline Ecthy
Emperor
Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:16
Cool  Old Post 23-11-2001 04:02
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We should restore the borders of 1914 inside of the European Community

red_jon is offline red_jon
King
Uni of Wales Swansea
Oct 2000
time: 05:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 04:04 Visit red_jon's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob Dornan
You're a lot weirder than Giancarlo. It takes one to know one?



I'm just harckening back ot Civnation, who suggested that Europe would be conquered by the 'barbarous' Asians. Then I got a mental image of the Borg crossed with the Chinese. Then the psychiatrist came and put a needle in my arm. This cell smells funny.

David Floyd is offline David Floyd
King
The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 04:07 Visit David Floyd's homepage!
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Bob, first off, Europeans (at least Western Europeans) generally have more personal freedoms than we do - ever hear of the War on Drugs, for example? The exceptions to this are, of course, the right to bear arms, which they don't even want, and relative lack of economic freedom.

Second off, what do they need a big military for? What, does the 18th Franco-German War appear imminent? Maybe you're expecting Napoleon or Otto von Bismarck to rise from the grave and wreak havoc? The Europeans need a bigger military like I need a third ***

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 04:08 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecthelion
We should restore the borders of 1914 inside of the European Community


whoooopiiieeee Let's do it all over again

I'm fed well, I have relaxed, nothing like a World War to get the blood pumping again (not)

Provost Harrison is offline Provost Harrison
Emperor
The farce is strong with this one.
Feb 2000
time: 05:16
Arrow  Old Post 23-11-2001 04:43
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I like Andy's suggestion

Oh come on, this is so pissy. We do alright, technological integration is needed, but that is following automatically, so I don't envisage a big problem in this regard...

August Borms is offline August Borms
Prince
Antwerpen
Nov 2000
time: 06:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 05:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecthelion
We should restore the borders of 1914 inside of the European Community


Fine by me, but remember: "le Boche payera tout"...

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 06:30
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*Steps to the side so as not to get gored as Roland the bull charges in. (This stuff will be like a red flag to him.)*

I really wasn't aware that technology use is lagging behind in Europe. (Not saying that's wrong...just was not aware of it. It would be sueful to talk about some specific industries and countries to flesh this out.)

The thing I've noticed that's different is how much Europe has CAUGHT UP in terms of adopting consumer technology. For example, TV took much longer to penetrate Europe than US. Personal computers in the 80's were more expensive and less available (especially the newer models.) Now it seems like stuff is the same on either side of the pond and in one case (cell phones) the Euros have adopted new tech quicker. Of coures this is all consumer techs, not production.

I have seen industries (medical devices, pharma) where it is easier to install new techs (in terms of getting labor reduction savings...i.e. easier to fire people. I remember hearing the US subsidiary president say "We don't even tell Europe when we do layoffs. we've had 7 since I've been here. They (Euro bosses) would get a lot more worried about that." Having worked on the Euro side I can say that Euro execs also had this view of the US, that it was easier to shift workers...I mean "hire and fire". France in particular has a bad reputation. Including among French management. My personal experience with workers in France was awesome...so it's not a black or white thing. But that reputation got there somehow.)

I don't think that there is any lack of willingness to invest in new production equipment by Euros. Certainly they do this with new facilities. Euro execs love big shiny new plants as much or more than American execs. But maybe there is a bit of drag in terms of ability to close old ones.

The other big difference is that there is just plain more technology development going on in the US. Things like analytical instruments being invented, modified, and light manufactured. There is probably a little bit of a lag for some of this stuff to penetrate to ROW.* And there's a little bit of synergy for customers/partner industries who are closer to developers of new techs. But I don't think it's a big effect. The bigger effect is porbably just the precense of some of these more leading/bleeding edge industries (feel free to kvetch here about the internet crap, Roland...I agree with you on that. I always thought that stuff was smoke and mirrors...biotech and semiconductors is another story...or maybe I'm just more appreciative of new technologies than new busines models.)

The other consideration to remember is that different regions may have legitimate reasons for different rates of technology introduction. We shouldn't expect new techs to penetrate all parts of the US or EU at the same rate...therefore why expect same thing between the 2.)

I would be very wary of trying to fix this with some industrial policy. That kind of thing ends up devolving into subsidies and bad guesses by the government. Let the market churn on it and don't get over-excited by these kinds of reports.



*Rest of World: (sorry, Roland) even the Euro conglomerates tend to talk of NA and ROW. .

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 07:18
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GP I think you are correct.

In fact a company factory just set up here in Racine called "Bombardiar" (I think thats it)

Anyway its orignally from luxembourg and the main reason it left was because of Red-Tape. Workers were unproductive, high paid, and unionized for doing low-grade work.

Anyway it brought 800 jobs to the area starting wages around 12.00$ an hour. Which is cool.but its factory work anyway...

Only problem is we need more immigrants in Racine to take up the glut of jobs that need to be filled.

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 13:37
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That's piss funny. Ol' Licky is about two years back in time...

"And because of their generally higher level of relevant skills, US workers are roughly one-third more productive than the EU average."

Made my day. Thanks. Only problem is I have a slight cold, so the laughing really hurts...

GP: Good points. I'll have to address that a bit further.

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 14:10
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Ok, in order:

"Erkki Liikanen, European Commissioner for Enterprise, said that average wealth per head in the EU was just two-thirds of that in the US. This gap is the widest since the 1960s."

Wealth per head ? I guess he means gdp per capita, which is a quite lose indicator for "wealth". We're at about 70 % of US levels on that. The gap has grown recently with the US bubble.

"The resulting failure to innovate has dented average productivity per European worker, while US firms have become more efficient."

It is very uncertain whether there is any structural improvement in US productivity growth. As for europe, the picture is quite murky as labour market reforms tend to decrease average labour productivity.

"Corporate investment in information technology is equivalent to 2.4% of Europe's economic output, compared with a US figure of 4.5%, Mr Liikanen said."

I wonder whether they have adjusted those numbers for the differing methodologies. More importantly, investment per se is no value. The US has hugely overinvested in that field. In europe there were not much destorting incentives, so I'd say we roughly are where we should be on tech adoption.

"Despite EU plans to fight joblessness, the continent is still way off the target of an overall employment level of 70%. In the US, a far higher proportion of the population is in the labour force."

Didn't we have that recently ? IIRC, US 72 %, EU 63 or 64 %. Italy alone has maybe 3-4 million employed in the shadow economy, so let's not overhype those numbers. It is true that several members need further labour market reforms, but show me one anglosaxon economist who understands one bit about european labour laws.

"And because of their generally higher level of relevant skills, US workers are roughly one-third more productive than the EU average."

On a per worker basis, they are producing more because they work more hours. Hourly labour productivity is quite similar. If you believe the stats correctly reflect the US service sector, that is.

"Mr Liikanen said that 70% of Americans have considered becoming self-employed, compared with only half of Europeans."

Oh please. If 50 or 70 % of people set up businesses, I'll go into bancrupcy law and make a fortune. Stupid idea.

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 14:17
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GP:

"This stuff will be like a red flag to him."

It is a bit annoying when people still don't realise that the US bubble has gone * pop *

"I have seen industries (medical devices, pharma) where it is easier to install new techs (in terms of getting labor reduction savings...i.e. easier to fire people."

Depends on the country and the circumstances. I'd really want to knock some sense into those economists that do labour market studies. The lawsuits in the US and the multi-page manuals "how to fire correctly so not to end up with punitive damages" are a cost, too.

"I don't think that there is any lack of willingness to invest in new production equipment by Euros. Certainly they do this with new facilities."

Investment isn't the problem. Where we need improvement is capital productivity.

"The other big difference is that there is just plain more technology development going on in the US. Things like analytical instruments being invented, modified, and light manufactured."

?

"*Rest of World: (sorry, Roland) even the Euro conglomerates tend to talk of NA and ROW. "

When they are in NA and/or talk to NAians.

Gary is offline Gary
King
London
Apr 1999
time: 05:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 14:20 Visit Gary's homepage!
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We should move it South. It'll be a lot warmer there.

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 14:32
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Yeah. It's snowing again...

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 17:30 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by faded glory
GP I think you are correct.

In fact a company factory just set up here in Racine called "Bombardiar" (I think thats it)

Anyway its orignally from luxembourg and the main reason it left was because of Red-Tape. Workers were unproductive, high paid, and unionized for doing low-grade work


Bombardier, maybe? It's a Quebec company specializing in transportation manufacturing, but it does have international plants.

Roman is offline Roman
King
Bratislava, Slovakia
Sep 2000
time: 05:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 17:36
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Bombardier, maybe? It's a Quebec company specializing in transportation manufacturing, but it does have international plants.


That's what I thought too, I didn't know it started in Luxemburg.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
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  Old Post 23-11-2001 17:38 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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It didn't.

http://www.bombardier.com/

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 17:49
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Bombardier, maybe? It's a Quebec company specializing in transportation manufacturing, but it does have international plants.





My bad your probably right


anyway Good economy devolopment! Jobs in area!!!!! !

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
Prince
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
time: 00:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 17:50 Visit Lonestar's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecthelion
We should restore the borders of 1914 inside of the European Community


Why stop there? Let's make Algeria a French Colony again!

faded glory is offline faded glory
King
This trash talking 2 bit dope dealer is about to learn respect for the law
Jan 2001
time: 05:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 17:55
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Ya KH the factory came from luxembourg not the company.

Ya I think they make ATV parts.

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
Emperor
of Ålidhem
Mar 1999
time: 06:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 19:03
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Europe is a entire continent. Not a uniform economic and political region. 'Europe' in that sence is still in the heads of some EU-airheads. One shouldn't mix apples and oranges in an analysis...

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 19:07
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I'm an airhead!

Diddle - dum -diddly - di....

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 19:12 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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ai, Roland... All this hard work gone to waste ...at least I think you've enjoyed writing it

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:16
Cool  Old Post 23-11-2001 19:13 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Too much time in the mountains, Herr Rechtsberater.

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
Emperor
of Ålidhem
Mar 1999
time: 06:16
  Old Post 23-11-2001 22:24
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Don't you worry Roland, it's not the first time a austrian wants to join Europe under one flag...

Seneca is offline Seneca
King
Bristol
Jun 2000
time: 05:16
Thumbs up  Old Post 24-11-2001 01:23
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We should put Sven Goran Eriksson in charge. He'll sort it out.

 
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