05-12-2001 22:29									#31
	Increase the size of your Attachments

If that yellow in South America is Desert, then i think you should change it, The only really desert area of SA should be the Atacama Desert; in the Patagonia, there is grass and it is used for sheep herding mostly. (although the lowering in the price of wool has made the sheep population go down)

	06-12-2001 00:30									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'm in the civ3 files forum !!! THANX OMNI GOD !!!

Sharule:
The British Isles are slightly larger than what it should be. It's the only places I've changed cause I wanted GB enough big to let the AI builds 3 cities, 1 more in Ireland and then we go invade Europe !

Vincentz:
Well, if greenland isn't tundra where is there tundra? Well anyway, the AI has already tendances to found cities in Greenland, I won't push him to do so even more because it shouldn't be an ultra important strategic place... Moreover, there's more people living on Bleeker Street in Manhattan than in the whole Greenland.

Akka le Vil:
- About wines... I guess the number of wines as it is is good. So, if I reduce the amount of wines in Europe, I must put them somewhere else, Argentina, California, Australia... at first I was against because I think it was mainly something recent. I mean by that aztecs weren't known for their wines. But anyway, I could make a concession.
- About Normandy. Actually I had to change the map because it would be linked to England if I had kept my model (I've made on transparent paper a scheme of the map). The channel sea is a line when we put grassland there, that's the only reason why it's a water tile in there.
- Ressources: I know only 1 is needed, I just wanted to push trade that's why we can find specific ressources only in specific regions.
- cattle/wheat: I've put tons of cattle/wheat in most densed regions (West. Europe, Gange Valley, China's Coast). That's for a reason. I wanted these places (especially Europe) to be strategic places that attract every civilizations in the world. Moreover, there's 6 civilizations in Europe so without ressources, they would be dwarfs during the whole game.
As it is, most games end with only 2 civilizations in Europe and these ones are great powers so I like it this way. You can send an alternate version of the map if you'd like to.
- Uranium: If there's only 13 uraniums on the whole map and generally in unpopulated places, it's also because I wanted to. I mean that I like that only few civilizations can get the nuclear power and that it's not so easy. That's why I didn't put uranium in France.
- Flood plains: thanx for the tip.
- Iron: In Scandinavia, I've switched Iron to Aluminium also because I wanted that the civilization in there becomes the aluminium distributors (German/UK/Russia). But well, I will think about switching Iron from "continental" Europe with Aluminium from Scandinavia. It could be fun cause it could create a rush to there.
If there's all that Aluminium in Australia/NZ, it's because I wanted to attract asian civilizations there cause they don't want that much to go there I dunno why.
- Gold: thanx for the tip.
- Coal: I can add one more in the rockies if you want.
- Horse: there's no horse in America on the map !

HsFBl:
Patagonia is grassland on my map... (and a bit tundra near the Cape Horn)
The yellow you can see is the desert on the east side of the Andies. Looking to my atlases, there's a desert there. It's a single vertical line in the game.
I will think to put more grassland if you want, it's true that Patagonia looks small.

Last edited by Marla on 06-12-2001 at 01:23

	06-12-2001 11:14									#33
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Cool map!

A couple of things I've noticed though: There should be coal in NE British Columbia as well as oil in Alberta (both are in Western Canada) not to mention wheat, wheat , and more wheat on the Prairies. As well, the Fraser River running from central BC to Vancouver should end slightly north from where you have it (the area south of Vancouver is actually a delta (floodplain?) with the Fraser running through it. Tile x:39 y:53 should more properly be a coast square and the Fraser should turn westward one tile north of it's curent position.

I know this might sound a little anal but I grew up in the area so I know the finer points of the local geography.

There's also an extreme scarcity of luxury resources in N America. Might I suggest furs in Ontario and Quebec (the Hudson's Bay Company, one of the oldest companies on earth--est 1690, was built on the fur trade). Dyes in BC would be appropriate (many wild berries there...the natives adorned themselves with many brightly coloured fabrics).

Edit: Didn't see all of those furs hiding in the trees.

Lastly, the Canadian Shield (area around Hudson's Bay) has an insane amount of mineral resources. Some iron should certainly be there. I know it requires hills, but maybe throw one or two in there.

Last edited by LotC on 06-12-2001 at 15:27

	06-12-2001 19:04									#34
	Hey LotC, thanx for the post ! Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well I'm sorry but the river you can see on the map isn't the Frazer River but the Columbia River that joins the Snake River to go in the pacific around Portland.
The Frazer River wasn't named on my poor little map of North America, but I'll add it. I like it when there's rivers in the map cause it makes the historical lands more attractive and it allows irrigations in... well the actual irrigated lands!

About Luxuries... everyone except indians can complain about luxuries: only ivory in Africa, only wines in Europe, only furs in America, only silk in China... I'll resist to the tentation of giving everything to everyone I will !

Well, I've considerated all of your proposals but I think that the most important for Canada is to improve the region of the Great Lakes (Ontaria/Quebec). If I had to add some wheat/cattle, it will be at first there, cause Iroquois (Canadians?) start there and they are really disadvantaged compared to this old Abe.
I will also improve the line Vancouver/Winnipeg.

NB: canadian city names are great to place ressources: Uranium City, Port Radium...

By the way, the tutorial in the zipfile explains how to start with all correct locations, I should rename it cause no one read it and that's the biggest file in the zipfolder !

The actual map as it is looks for being a good compromise between accuracy and gameplay balance.... I'm working to make it better. Thanx again

	07-12-2001 05:16									#35
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Ahh...so that IS the Columbia!

Too bad you couldn't get the Fraser in there...it's quite a long river.

What would be cool is if someone could modify the Iriquois into a western aboriginal nation (Coast Salish, Tlingit?). As it is, the Iriquios are so close to the Americans that the 2 capitals will share the same city radius. I don't know about any of their leaders but it shouldn't be too hard to find out. This might also justify putting the western coal and oil deposits in.

If you're interested in this, maybe I can do it (it kinda sounds like I volunteered anyways doesn't it? )

	07-12-2001 06:33									#36
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Here's a screen with the Fraser in it. I changed a couple of tiles too (mountain north of Vancouver and a coast tile south of it).

	07-12-2001 07:27									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

You've made disappear the Vancouver Island ! Well okay I know on my map it's not an island cause it's strongly connected to the continent... but it's so closed to the continent it's hard to not do so. Well, you're the one who knows the region so you're the boss !

Here's a beta version of the 1.10 map
I would love if you can edit the canadian ressources on this map and not the one in the forum cause I've added more city names for each civs in this beta.
Just a remark: I take care to respect amount of ressources on the map cause it looks to be a good balance. For example, when you add one oil, try to remove one in Siberia or in Alaska...

About iroquois location, I know that it's really next to Washington, I haven't noticed it while putting locations on the map. The issue is that on the marla.cpf file created by Gramphos where we can designate correct locations for each civs, iroquois location is already programmed and I don't know how to change it. I may contact Gramphos to edit it... just to put it on tile on the north...

EDIT: Beta-map's zip has been removed cause the version 1.10 is now available on top of the thread.

Last edited by Marla on 10-12-2001 at 05:54

	07-12-2001 08:05									#38
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Oh, I thought you left out Vancouver Island

I'll see if I can squeeze it in there, as well as the Haida Gwaii (Queen Carlotte Islands). I'll fiddle with the resources too and post the results on my personal webspace so you can approve and post to this forum.

	07-12-2001 19:10									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Marla About iroquois location, I know that it's really next to Washington, I haven't noticed it while putting locations on the map. The issue is that on the marla.cpf file created by Gramphos where we can designate correct locations for each civs, iroquois location is already programmed and I don't know how to change it. I may contact Gramphos to edit it... just to put it on tile on the north...

It shouldn't be very hard to edit. The hardest is to get the FOW right if, but it can be done from just looking at the terrain, or by start a game with
xxx
xox
xxx
as the FOw, move up, and move back teh next turn, and the area that is light should be the FOW.

It is currently as follows:

code:
@BEGIN CIV
NAME=Iroquois
ID=15
CORDS=67,57
@BEGIN FOW
xxxx
xxxx
xxox
xxxxx
   xx
@END FOW
@END CIV

	07-12-2001 19:25									#40
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

This may be easier to get.

	1	2	3	4	5
1	x	x	x	x
2	x	x	x	x
3	x	x	o	x
4	x	x	x	x	x
5			x	x

The colored squares, represent the same color in the image.

Attachment: fow.gif
This has been downloaded 1702 time(s).

Last edited by Gramphos on 07-12-2001 at 20:18

	07-12-2001 19:59									#41
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Marla:

Great map!!! Best.Earth.Map.Ever!


One minor problem, though, with Barbarian Camp placement. As of 1.08, starting as the Babylonians in their correct spot (using Gramphos' utility) assures that the Barbarians from the Camp at (156,62) will overrun you before you can possibly produce a warrior, and chase your worker desperately. It looks like this is the only Camp that is within the crucial five-tile (i.e., five-turn) distance from a player starting location.


At least, that's what's happened to me every time I've done it (3 times, starting with a new 4000BC savegame, then using Gramphos' utility on it).

Personally, I just went into the editor to move/remove the offending barbarian encampment, which is not a big problem. But I wanted to bring it to your attention anyway.

Again, thanks for the fabulous map!!!

	07-12-2001 22:18									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

As I see some people were interested in the beta 1.10 version, I've edited it with the fresher changes. I remember you this version hasn't been tested already, so it's possible that changes aren't as good as we thought.

Gramphos, Well, if you know how to put Iroquois just one tile more on the north of where they are, it would be great to send me the new marla.cpf to my mail: marla_singer_13@yahoo.com
Once again, I would like to thank you a lot for your program and the marla.cpf file you've made. It makes this map a lot funnier so one thousand kisses to you !!

	08-12-2001 08:09									#43
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Akka le Vil Remember that a civ does only need ONE to be able to build any unit/building that require it. 3 irons and 3 aluminium in NZ, 6 aluminium in Australia, and so much cattle/wheat/wine in Europe and India... Err it's a little excessive

Maybe, Maybe not

If Australia has abundant aluminium then it makes sense for the whole of Australia to have aluminium available, sure for a Civ that owns all of Australia it would not make much difference however if several Civ's decend on Australia at the same time (and carve it up between them) they would get a piece of the aluminium each. This makes more sense than having a single source of aluminium which would force the players to play 'hunt the source'. Besides it's unnatural for a resource to only exist in a very confined area.

	08-12-2001 08:58									#44
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by LotC What would be cool is if someone could modify the Iriquois into a western aboriginal nation (Coast Salish, Tlingit?). As it is, the Iriquios are so close to the Americans that the 2 capitals will share the same city radius.

Ok this is based on a quick look at Colonization (yes that old thing). If the Iroiqious were changed to Sioux the capital city would be much further west. Now weren't the Sioux in Civ2? I don't currently have this available (badly scratched disc) can somebody else confirm that the Sioux are based in the West of north America?

If they are then they would be a natural replacement for the Iroqous who are far too close to America

Edit: forget the Sioux, i'm going to work on changing the Iroquious into the Tupi and giving them a South America location

	08-12-2001 10:49									#45
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quote: can somebody else confirm that the Sioux are based in the West of north America?

I see that you edited already but I thought I'd answer anyway. Yes, the Sioux were in Civ2 and they are also a central/western nation. Their historical territory (mainly) encompassed N and S Dakota, western Minnesota, Idaho, southern Alberta and Saskatchewan.

Personally, I think they should have left the Sioux in instead of putting the Iriquois in just to avoid the situation of them being too close to America. OTOH, maybe they didn't really care, considering you can't set specific civ start locations with the game as shipped anyway.

	08-12-2001 17:37									#46
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Salamanca's location is incredibly near Toronto... Aztecs starts in the future Mexico City location... To me Iroquois are a hidden way to add canadians to the game without doing so. By the way, I was surprised when I "discovered" America in a game to see that Iroquois develloped in Canada and Americans in the US, that's how I thought about it.

Well LotC, you talked about posting your changes on your webspace, how can I go there? can you send it on my mail please?
marla_singer_13@yahoo.com

	08-12-2001 21:36									#47
	Unoffical v1.09 using Mortioso's CivBreed rather than Civ3CopyTool Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The Zip attached below contain's Marla's 1.085 Map and Mortioso's CivBreed 0.45 Utility.

INSTRUCTIONS

1. Extract files to your Civilization directory
2. Start new scenario game with Marla's Map
3. Save game as "FIX.SAV"
4. Run the file "RUN_THIS.BAT" in your saves directory
5. Load up "FIXED.SAV"
6. Play!

My apologies to Gramphos I crawled all over your Civ3CopyTool thread, installed numerous VB runtimes and OCX files and it still would not work on my XP system so I decided to find a better way

EDIT: Removed... see top of this thread for the latest version

Last edited by Vonotar on 12-12-2001 at 17:14

	08-12-2001 22:10									#48
	Version 1.10 now online !!! Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

So, what has been changed in that version ?

improvements from 1.08 to 1.10

- Several changes proposed by Scipio Africanu has been added:
o Desert in western india is now on the map.
o Mountains on eastern Siberia has been improved for more accuracy and in the same way to avoid asian civilizations to settle great cities there.
o Same thing with northern Alaska.
o Gold has been added near Tenochtitlan and in the former Inca territory.

- Iroquois starting location:
o It has been put one tile more on the north to not "eat" Washington area (changes in marla.cpf to have iroquois correct starting locations has also been made).
o Canada's great lakes region has been improved cause iroquois were too disadvantaged compared to americans.

- More city names have been added, some Leaders have been changed (thanx to Sevorak and Iamchinese).

- The readme has been remade to be clearer and to regroup all little files in only one (except marla.cpf).

- Patagonia has been improved.
- Frazer River has been added and other changes from LotC in ressources has been made.
- Other smaller changes has been made with ressources and terrain.

	09-12-2001 21:22									#49
	Vonotar Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I've tested your way to put locations (using civbreed)

Ok, the thing you haven't explained is that we must create folders to make it work:
1- Inside the Civ3 folder, we must create a folder called: EXTRAS
2- Inside the Extras folder, we must create two folders: MARLAMAP and CIVBREED

After, we must put each files in the good folder:
1- Civbreed and its readme in the CIVBREED folder
2- Marlamap.c3b in the MARLAMAP folder
3- run_this.bat in the SAVES folder
4- Marla.bic and its readme in the SCENARIOS folder

Ok, then, everything seems to work well.
I think there's a way to create a file where you just have to click on it to create automatically folders and put the right files in there... I think it would be smart to apply this (if it's possible)

For now, I'm sorry but I'll remain on the copytool... I'll certainly put a link to your file in the readme for people who doesn't succeed to make Copy Tool works. But I advise you to write in the readme file that story about folders, cause it took me a bit time to understand it (ok, I hate dos.... I'm not a programmer!)

Thanx again for your efforts and your support... The readme file you've made looks great even if Marla Singer is really written big on it !
Thanx by the way to correct my mistakes !!!

	10-12-2001 06:03									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Okay, so here's where we are:

There's 2 ways to to put civs back to their correct locations

I would like to know what's your advice about which one is the easiest and the most simple to use (Civbreed or Copy Tool).

So if people have trouble with copy tool or don't like civbreed or the opposite, it would be really great to tell it in here.
Thanx to do so.

	10-12-2001 11:17									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hey
I don't mean to be a party pooper but you are missing the Kareli Islands I hope you don't have anything personal against the Kareli Islands They are pretty nice islands They are located north east of japan You are also missing the O. Vrangel'a located north east Russia (island). You see that I have to nit-pick on the small details because everything else is there? Oh, and according to Europa Universalis, there is gold in Armenia. But I have no other source for confirmation.

Vincentz!

	10-12-2001 14:13									#52
	Support Apolyton

For some time reasons, I didn't played on your map yet (neither any map). But I just woundered: are fish ressources already placed correspondingly?

	10-12-2001 23:58									#53
	Increase Your PM Length

Don't touch SA... By friday, my school will be over and i promise to download the map and check SA, including resources.


One minor question, are horses only in Europe or in America as well?

	11-12-2001 01:18									#54
	Remove this text

I am somewhat unhappy with the names of german cities, even after the "city patch".
Here are my comments for german citynames, and a revised citylist.
Maybe you can include it in your (excellent) map?

city - comment

Berlin
Leipzig
Hamburg
Konigsberg - Koenigsberg, now located in Russia, but true german city
Frankfurt
Munich - german spelling: Muenchen
Heidelburg - Heidelberg, wrong spelling since civ1 I think
Nuremberg - german spelling: Nuernberg
Cologne - german spelling: Koeln
Hannover
Bremen
Stuttgart
Bonn
Salzburg - Austrian city, moved down the list
Dortmund
Brandenburg - actually a state, replaced by Potsdam
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Danzig - now located in poland, but formerly german
sseldorf - correct german spelling: Duesseldorf
Duisburg
Dresden
Bochum
Mayence - I have no idea what this is, maybe in france? removed it!
Wuppertal
Sarbr - correct german spelling: Saarbruecken
Mannheim
Wiesbaden
Leverkusen
Potsdam
Schwerin
Kiel
Magdeburg
Erfurt
Essen
Lubeck -correct german spelling: Luebeck
Innsbruck - Austrian city, but okay
Augsburg
Pilsen - formerly german, now in Czechia (how do you write that?)
Rostock
Luzern - Swiss city, never german, removed it
Stettin - formerly german, now Poland, left it
Breslau - formerly german, now Poland, left it
Bamberg
Plauen
Zwickau
Aachen
Cottbus
Bautzen
Schwerin
Tossens - I never heard of that, removed it
Rastatt - Not important enough, removed it
Karlsruhe
Apolda
Fulda
Wolfsburg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

German Cities revised (some have different spelling in german but I left
the english spelling) I choosed a slightly different order

Berlin
Leipzig
Hamburg
Frankfurt
Munich
Heidelberg
Nuremberg
Cologne
Hannover
Bremen
Stuttgart
Dortmund
Potsdam
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dresden
Danzig
Kassel
Koblenz
Worms
Fulda
Muenster
Duesseldorf
Aachen
Duisburg
Bonn
Saarbruecken
Mannheim
Wiesbaden
Freiburg
Bayreuth
Wuerzburg
Regensburg
Konstanz
Potsdam
Schwerin
Rostock
Kiel
Magdeburg
Erfurt
Weimar
Jena
Halle
Chemnitz
Essen
Luebeck
Salzburg
Innsbruck
Augsburg
Mainz
Pilsen
Stettin
Posen
Breslau
Bamberg
Plauen
Zwickau
Cottbus
Schwerin
Greifswald
Dessau
Karlsruhe
Braunschweig
Flensburg
Bochum
Wuppertal
Leverkusen
Ingolstadt
Wolfsburg
Apolda
Bautzen

	11-12-2001 01:37									#55
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

ok ok, I must agree with you, I haven't checked every german city names... Actually, I'm not happy about french names either... I would put most important cities at firsts but the game approach is more historical so I let Orléans and Tours even if they are towns today.

Well, Don't remove Mayence!!! it's the english name of Mainz !! My boyfriend lives there, I care about it
As the game is in english, I think it's better to put english names instead of german. Now you can argue about why München (and not muenchen where have you found that?) is the right name and Munich nothing to you....

Well I'll add your list to the game, I'll do some research for the names you didn't translate... I guess I'll put Mayence a bit upper . You're lucky he's in Germany, I have nothing else to do than the map while I'm waiting his return !

	11-12-2001 00:13									#56
	Increase Your PM Length

Well, thing is "ä" "ü" "ö" and those other silly german letters won't work in the game, at least not on every Computer, I think.
I really hate those letters! And btw I am from Germany.
I *would* argue about the German civilization calling their cities by the english name. ;-)
But then - what about the Aztecs or the Chinese ;-). So leave those well-known names (Munich, Cologne and Nuremberg)
I didn't know about Mayence being Mainz - but maybe Mainz would be really better (in this case)
Oh, and remove Potsdam one time, its in there 2 times now, cause I removed Brandenburg...

	11-12-2001 04:34									#57
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

PREVIEW: Okay so for the latest news Vonotar is creating a self extractor .exe file that will automatically put every files in their correct folders. This way, you won't need anymore a messy civ3 folder to get each civs at their correct locations and it will be even more easier to do so.
Actually, We'll just have to go on the start menu and click on "put these damn' civs in their correct locations". This way, we won't need anymore to quit civ3 to get it.

You just save your game in 4000 BC calling it FIX => you click on the button I've told about => you load the FIXED game.

NOTE: the start menu button on the keyboard allows us to go in the start menu during the game.

	11-12-2001 07:29									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Marla,

Great job on the map !, however on the version of your map that tried there was no fish in large numbers near Newfoundland, Canada or New England. Cod Fish was one of the main (and first) resources to draw attention to Newfoundland and the surronding area. The Fish industry while not near as large and important as it used to be still exists in those areas today. To reflect the orignal conditions of the fishstocks in the area, some fish should be added, in my opinion.

Anyway great job on the map and I look forward to all future versions.

	11-12-2001 21:26									#59
	Tired of ads?

WoW cool Map, seems like the best earth map yet. Also including the positions of the resources in the download was a really good idea.

Anyway I noticed people seem to be asking about the re-positioning of some resources. So I did a bit of searching and found an old geography book of mine which shows nearly all the world placings of civ strategic resources.

Heres a pic (i tried to attach don't know if it worked), sadly I don't have a scanner so I had to use a digital camera to get the pics.

Attachment: map resource.jpg
This has been downloaded 1225 time(s).

	11-12-2001 21:31									#60
	Tired of ads?

I also have much more detailed maps which show the individual placements of things like gold and iron ore which i could post if you like - Up to You

Lenius