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Locutus
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ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
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Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:16
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I've had more than enough of this, I'm not putting up with this Firaxis/Infogrames crap any longer: "Oh yeah, we're gonna make the best game ever, it will by far outdo any other (civ-)game ever made and we'll do everything we can to support the fan-community in their customization efforts". Meanwhile, they didn't have a demo, no MP, no scenarios, disappointing LE, no public beta, very poor PR (as Yin put it), they're treating non-Americans like second-class citizens, the game itself is not only just a 'conservative sequel' but also - even for such a conservative product - of only mediocre quality AND, more importantly (to me), no scripting- or event-language and no scenario support of any kind. Now, I can (and did) accept all that, there are excuses for such things and they can (partially) be fixed afterwards but now they apparently expect us to ask for written permission before we make any modifications to the game. How many other games are there out there for which this is required? Such policy is absolutely rediculous, there is no excuse for it; supporting the fan-community my @ss! 
I can understand how they don't like it if people start translation projects on their own, but the way they're responding to Kai Fiebach's project is outrageous. They announced it will be about 4-6 months before a German translation becomes available and they're actually surprised fans start translating it themselves?  Either you release translations (almost) immediately after the original release (other companies can do it, why can't they?) or you accept the fact that fans will act themselves. To think fans will patiently wait six months is naive to say the least, and to start a campaign of lawsuits (yeah, yeah, I know it's technically not a lawsuit but it's not a friendly email/phone-call either) and slandering against your fans is extremely immature and inappropriate.
To me, mod- and scenario-making is by far the most important reason for playing Civ and Firaxis/Infogrames seem to be determined to restrict modmakers as much as they can (no scripting, no scenario support, no standard-format files for graphics and texts, requiring fans to ask permission for customization, generally taking advantage of our goodwill), even though their PR-campaign say differently (no doubt in the hope of selling more copies). For this reason and to sympathize with Kai Fiebach/ColdFever, who - regardless of his good intentions - is being royally f*cked for all of us to see (and I can't help but wonder who will be next), I'm bailing out of Civ3 altogether. I originally planned on buying the game when the price-quality ratio was acceptable (i.e. after a patch or two or after the price drops), but I'm not gonna do so anymore. I'll no longer visit Civ3.com (and thus give up my hard-fought #5 ranking on CivTrivia: good luck to Skanky Burns et al) or the Apolyton (and CivFanatics) Civ3 section & forums, I will no longer update the XPC poll (just posted a last big update but that's it) and I resign as the Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack project leader. Firaxis/Infogrames have lost me to the competition, probably for good. You can say what you want of Activision, but at least they were sincere in their attempts of helping the fans (unfortunately due to internal reorganizations and commercial failure their options were very limited)...
Yes, I realize that this is only a small thing, I'm only one individual and it won't hurt Firaxis or Infogrames one bit but it's a big thing for me. I won't start a campaign of flaming, trolling or trying to convince people to follow my lead (heck, I'd probably get sued if I did), but I wouldn't mind if other people would take a moment to contemplate on whether or not they think the way Firaxis/Infogrames have been acting lately (particularly in the last week or so but also over the last 6 months) requires some form of protest (edit: I just noticed Hoek's open letter: that's one option, my selfimposed 'cease and desist order' is another, more radical, one)...
If anyone needs me, I can be found in the CtP(2) forums (and possibly in the Clash and other Alt Civs projects as well) and I check my email and PM regularly (and I'll keep an eye on this thread in the next few days). Inspite of Firaxis/Infogrames' behaviour, the time I spent on these Civ3 forums in the last few months was fun, interesting and well spent, so I hope to see many of you guys (including the Firaxians, I don't have anything against them personally) elsewhere sometime. Until then, I salute you all: Goodbye, Auf Wiedersehen, Au revoir, Hasta la vista, G^is, Shalom, Do svidanja, Zai jian, Sayonara, Salaam, Ciao, Khairete, Xaire, Vale, Näkemiin, Adjö, Até logo, Czesc, Sawatdi, Hoscakal, Dehna hunu, Fo tuma du, De groete, Tjow...
(I apologize if I left out anyone's language but I only speak so many languages  )
edit: typo's 'n stuff...
Last edited by Locutus on 01-12-2001 at 06:06
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Ka Shima
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S. Charleston, WV USA
Apr 1999
time: 05:16
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quote:
Sorry to hear that. I was really looking forward to seeing what you could do with Civ III scenarios when the tools get up to snuff. |
So Firaxis, or at least a representative of Firaxis realizes that a substandard part ov Civ3 was released.
Wonder what else will happen...
It is a full moon, though!
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Evil_Eric_4
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IS that a haha or a huh?
Anyway that was sideshow Bob explaining to his parole board why he had DIE-BART-DIE tatooed on his chest.
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LeaninCowboy
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After reading this forum since the beginning, I finally decided to register after reading this thread, just to say this::
Say...thats pretty funny...about the Simpsons and stuff....
Why dont you get yer heads outta yer a$$es and hijack someone elses thread with your dribble.
Let the man leave with some dignity.
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Evil_Eric_4
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whoa -
chill man
just answering the guys question
joined a forum just to rag on someone huh?interesting.
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Hans2
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Mondovi, WI USA
May 1999
time: 05:16
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Don't let the door hit you in the @ss.
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protista
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Please reconsider your decision!! I too have been very frustrated with some aspects of Civ3, as well as the translation fiasco, but feel we desperately need individuals of your calibre and compassion within the community to work with all of us in bringing about some of the desired changes in Civ3!
I have a proposal. Please wait until you can peruse the forthcoming patch! If after examining it and determining the merits/demerits of changes and inclusions, you still are adamant about departing, you certainly can!
Somehow I feel we need you here with us!
Firaxis will still get your message. That was a very eloquent post. And we will still have your input and commentary.
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Wolfar
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Sorry to see you go I really am. This sounds though IMHO like a quiter attatude.
Darkknight,
If you have not made it past the middle ages I STRONGLY suggest you check the Stratagy form. Geting a good start in this game is essential. You are doing somthing WRONG.
I date back to Sid's first games on the Atari 800. This is a GOOD game.
Salute
Wolfar
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Sytass
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Being just one of the faceless masses, one who has been a fan of 4x games ever since the original Civ, who played games like MoO 1/2, Civ 1/2, CtP 1/2, AC/AX, SE4 and EU for hours, days, weeks, and months, one of the many silent watchers out there, I feel I have little to add.
I agree with Locutus. It's not the first time a game was overhyped, it was not the first time a game did not include features that had been promised. Names like Outpost, Daikatana, Dark Reign come to mind. I fell for my trust in games thate bear Sid Meier's name, games I had played since my Pirates!-days on my old C64, games like the Civs, Alpha Centauri, Colonization, or Gettysburg. I fell for my trust in Firaxis and their games I enjoyed so much so far.
Some of the shortcomings of the game may only consist in my brain that's not willing to adapt to the new way of the game. However, one smacks strongly that this game was rushed out to make it in time for the x-mas hubbub. I don't blame Firaxis, but their publisher Infogrames, a company whose games I enjoyed since Amiga's legendary North & South, or Full Metal Planete.
Gaming companies are out there to make money. The days of dedicated programmers catering the devoted gamers are not over, however. And even though many great names have become mainstream, obviously now including Sid Meier who lent but his name for the project, there is a new breed of prgrammers - look at Malfador Machination with their Space Empires series, or at Battlefront with Combat Mission, or at Shrapnel Games with games like Horse and Musket. Maybe not the most stylish games (well, except Combat Mission when it's heavily graphic-mod'ed), but games with incredible depth and often unmatched customization.
Civilization 3 was announced as (among many other things) made to mod. Given it was a pretty advanced (technical-wise) game, it was clear that graphic modifications would be for the hardcore modders, not like in Civ 2 for the occasional modder. However, the stance Infogrames takes on the subject of modding is ridiculous to a point that adds insult to injury. Where would games like Half-Life, Unreal Tournament, Space Empires 4 be if it weren't for dedicated modders who love their games? Mods extend the life span of a product. It shows that there are people who like the game so much they sacrifice a lot of time and effort to enhance the experience.
And on those people Infogrames bashes, maybe fearing that their own shortcomings may become too obvious, or that future add ons or expansions may not sell well because of mods covering similar aspects. The customization one can undertake with the editor is handy but to label this as modding is plainly hillarious.
I for one, will return to CTP2 with its Apolyton pack, something that would likely be next to impossible for Civ3, and to Alpha Centauri, a proof that Firaxis is capable of creating great games with fantastic atmosphere. I will await the patch, to see what changes, but the next time I hold a game by the Frixians or Infogrames in my hands, I will think twice. MoO3, I will judge you very carefully!
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Bismark29
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Wolfar from bombs-away.net?? If that is you, doesn't this forum remind you of that one when the Mighty 8th first came out? Hahahaha
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01-12-2001 05:18
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