03-12-2001 07:25									#31
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Bend down, put your head between your knees, and kiss your ass goodbye


Frankly, this guy supported the scum of the earth. He goes to suppot the Taliban because he thought it was an ideal nation. He could've fled the country, like some other Taliban did. He didn't. Plus he was invovled in the revolt which killed a US CIA operative. Just shoot him for treason.

	03-12-2001 07:36									#32
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In fact IIRC although we don't actually have the death penalty anymore, I believe there is still a loophole in the treason law...!

Personally I think the British Muslims involved should be punished as severely as possible - I certainly don't want them back in the country, we could stick them on St. Helena like Napoleon as an example and then quietly forget about them!

	03-12-2001 07:37									#33
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS In fact IIRC although we don't actually have the death penalty anymore, I believe there is still a loophole in the treason law...! Personally I think the British Muslims involved should be punished as severely as possible - I certainly don't want them back in the country, we could stick them on St. Helena like Napoleon as an example and then quietly forget about them!

Feed them arsenic too?

	03-12-2001 07:39									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Goingonit Feed them arsenic too?

Unfortunately I doubt we have any 200 year old supplies of paint knocking around...

	03-12-2001 08:37									#35
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS In fact IIRC although we don't actually have the death penalty anymore, I believe there is still a loophole in the treason law...!

Well, funny thing about that, many of your possesions (such as Grenada) have the DP, but the British high court has to handly those cases.

	03-12-2001 13:35									#36
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc One doesn't have to surrender to leave the country.

I don't think he had that option:

quote: When the U.S. bombardment began, he said he fled 100 miles on foot to Konduz, where he was one of more than 3,000 Taliban soldiers taken prisoner in the garrison.

	03-12-2001 13:41									#37
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OK this is likely to piss people off- this is why I'm posting it

I don't believe this guy did anything wrong. First off, lets determine what this guy's original intent was. He was a muslim who wanted to see some action. So like fighter pilots who went to England and China before the U.S. officially entered world war 2, he went to a foreign country to kill people. He was fighting an enemy that was not the U.S. Then the U.S. enters the arena. Yet this guy still isn't fighting the U.S (not like he fired his A.K. into the air at jet planes); he was fighting the northern alliance. And the northern alliance is not an official ally of the U.S. I believe. So one could say this guy never actually faught the U.S. in any battle.

Set him free I say. Just another redneck who likes to kill people.

	03-12-2001 15:30									#38
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"In fact IIRC although we don't actually have the death penalty anymore, I believe there is still a loophole in the treason law...! "

Yeah...pretty sure hanging is still the penalty for treason.

Only problem is we don't actually have anymore hangmen left...the last one died around a decade ago.

	03-12-2001 15:58									#39
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk All I'm saying is that his status as a citizen prevents him from being sent to the military tribunal, since they can be used only with non-citizens.

Incorrect, sir.

If the charge is treason - to the point of fighting against your own country in an armed conflict, a military tribunal is appropriate. This stopped being a civil matter when the shooting started. Maybe he didn't really have much chance to back out at that point, but it's a little late to think about that now. He accepted the risk when he first joined up.

	03-12-2001 16:10									#40
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS In fact IIRC although we don't actually have the death penalty anymore, I believe there is still a loophole in the treason law...!

I don't think its a loophole as such. I think it was intentional to still retain the dp for treason.

The odder thing is, what is definied as treason in the UK? I believe that defacing the Queen's piccy on a banknote counts....

	03-12-2001 17:44									#41
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IIRC the US Congress never declared war against Afghanistan.

How could he be fighting his own country?

What kind of crime did Dubya commit attacking a country against which the US did not declare war?

	03-12-2001 17:48									#42
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The man will die a traitors death, executed after a swift trial. I personally think he betrayed the US by supporting the terrorists themselves, and should die for that.

	03-12-2001 17:50									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger IIRC the US Congress never declared war against Afghanistan.

This is not war but police action, rather. They call it to root out a government that needs to be rooted out.

quote: What kind of crime did Dubya commit attacking a country against which the US did not declare war?

It is called Police Action, and he did not commit any crime.

	03-12-2001 17:53									#44
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If it's fair, it can be as swift as lightning.

If they find that he was working to attack the government and that the various laws are applicable, let him die.

If not, let him free. He may have an absolutely repulsive opinion, but even idiots have rights.

	03-12-2001 18:55									#45
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Apparently the man is from Northern California.

His family says he's been brainwashed..

	03-12-2001 22:17									#46
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It looks like the Americans have him in custody now.

This will be a VERY interesting case.

	03-12-2001 22:27									#47
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara What is it with Americans named Walker going off and getting involved in foreign civil wars?

Do you think he's related to the Captain Walker who went to Central America in the early 19th century to set up his own kingdom?

	03-12-2001 22:42									#48
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This is a very stickey situation. Everyone here has made good points, but if we do try him and execute him for this, the backlash from the Muslims of the world may be more than we can handle. Plus, isn't it part of his religion to allow him to fight to defend the holy land? That's another can of worms we don't want to open...

IMHO, this guy should disappear for a while...

	03-12-2001 22:44									#49
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Anybody heard from EVC lately???

	03-12-2001 22:53									#50
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Well sachmo, those militants are totally handleable. (Is that a word?) I don't think they are anything to worry about, they can try to pull some sh1t, all they will gain is a rain of fire down on their country.

Part of me thinks we can take the opportunity to make this guy an example by showing the world how forgiving and compassionate we are. That doesn't mean letting him go, but maybe go halfway.

The other half of me wants to go b1tch slap the guy, especially since he said he supported Sept. 11. (Unless he was saying that because his comrades were listening, and he didn't want THEM to kick his ass, which I think might be a slim chance).

It's a toss up.

Maybe we act "nice" this time, and if that is taken as a sign of weakness, then the next guys get caught, tough luck.

You know what, after thinking that through, those militants don't even seem to recognize compassion, they only take it as a sign of weakness.

So Mr. Traitor, maybe our boys should be given authorization to do their thing.

Micro Charlaton Adam Smith,



EDIT: just sounded like a Jerry Springer guest with my White Ebonics. Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

Last edited by Ted Striker on 03-12-2001 at 23:04

	03-12-2001 22:59									#51
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It is actually a bit tricky because he is a white muslim.

If you are lenient, people will say you are only being lenient on him because he is white.

If you are harsh, people will say you are being harsh because you want to stamp out islam in the US.

	04-12-2001 02:31									#52
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Considering how the NA has treated Afghani Taliban versus foreign Taliban, they may well be expecting us to give Walker a gun and uniform...

	04-12-2001 06:31									#53
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First, the Congress never declared war on anyone so he can't be guilty of treason. And I heard the guy did renounce his citizenship so he may not even be an American citizen. Furthermore, we don't the situation, there was an American who surrendered in Kuwait as part of the Iraqi army - he had been conscripted while visiting relatives and we all know what would happen to a guy who tried to escape that situation. He was never charged with anything, just allowed to return home to the Chicago area I believe.

	04-12-2001 07:07									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker First, the Congress never declared war on anyone so he can't be guilty of treason.

What the hell does declaretion of war have to do with anything?

	04-12-2001 07:17									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker First, the Congress never declared war on anyone

Legally, they did.

	04-12-2001 07:40									#56
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To quote Rogan Josh:
"The odder thing is, what is definied as treason in the UK? I believe that defacing the Queen's piccy on a banknote counts..."

I better spend the evidence!

	04-12-2001 07:41									#57
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Lonestar -

quote: What the hell does declaretion of war have to do with anything?

If we are to charge and convict a US citizen of treason, they have to be convicted of waging war against us - the Congress never declared war.

DinoDoc -

quote: Legally, they did.

The Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and the Constitution says the Congress has the power to declare war - it hasn't declared war, it passed a "resolution" authorizing the President to wage war. At most, this guy can be charged with sedition. That was what the Rosenburgs were charged with since the Congress never declared war against the USSR.

And a charge of sedition requires that this guy is a citizen and a conviction requires proof he actually fired upon US troops. The only other option is claiming he conspired to rebel during the prison revolt that led to the death of the CIA operative and that will require proof he was in on it rather than just being in a prison where other Taliban members revolted and possibly the added burden of proving that he had knowledge there was a CIA operative there in the the first place - good luck. It'll take a Kangaroo Court to convict this guy of anything...

	04-12-2001 07:49									#58
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Declaration of war is legally irrelevant to treason. The res is waging war against the USA by a citizen, whether declared, undeclared, police action, rebelion, or what ever. 99.9% of treason aginst the US has not been in declared wars, mostly rebellions, of which the most was in the US civil war. A blanket pardon was made by Lincoln after the war, as was done for most rebelions.

	04-12-2001 09:57									#59
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Lefty -

quote: Declaration of war is legally irrelevant to treason.

It is if the accused lives in another country and is defending that country and it's government from US attacks.

quote: The res is waging war against the USA by a citizen, whether declared, undeclared, police action, rebelion, or what ever.

The act of treason requires that the accused is waging war against the US and/or aiding and abetting the enemy - no declaration of war, no enemy. Since he cannot be charged with aiding and abetting an enemy absent an actual declaration of war, the accused must be actively waging war against the US, but this guy was only defending himself from attack - from the NA and if the US was a participant, illegal attacks. Otherwise anyone who resists an unlawful (or lawful) arrest would be guilty of treason. Again, the Rosenburgs were not charged with treason because no war had been declared against the USSR.

quote: 99.9% of treason aginst the US has not been in declared wars, mostly rebellions, of which the most was in the US civil war. A blanket pardon was made by Lincoln after the war, as was done for most rebelions.

First, what has happened since the Constitution's ratification is not a constitutional endorsement of those later actions. However, these are domestic matters where the accused has actually taken part in the rebellion, not when someone overseas is defending themself in an undeclared war.

	04-12-2001 12:05									#60
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nobody responded to my point.

this guy never actually fought the U.S. He was being bombed by the U.S. but he did not retaliate (mostly because he couldn't ). He then retreated with other Taliban soldiers. He never fired a shot at a U.S. citizen.

let him go free I say. He just wanted to see some action. And he got it.