03-12-2001 11:44									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Asher And computers do things that couldn't be done before. This thing does what could already be done, but in a different way. Not in a very popular way, but one for a small niche market.

Not the first computers. They simply made tasks we already did more easily done. Then they did new and better things.

I really don't see a difference...

	03-12-2001 11:44									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Ash: the use of gravity to shift you forwards or backwards SIMPLY on human motion is very innovative and HASN'T been done before. This is totally new and is revolutionary.

You ever been snowboarding?

quote: Yep and think it'll be emission free as well... help with that pesky smog problem .

Why do you think that?
The thing relies on gravity, which pretty much puts major speed restrictions on how fast things can go. I don't think you'll be seeing anything much faster than 8 mph, so it'd be replacing the people walking. And because it uses more electricity than people walking, you could actually argue it's more harmful.

	03-12-2001 11:45									#33
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quote: Originally posted by orange Not the first computers. They simply made tasks we already did more easily done. Then they did new and better things. I really don't see a difference...

More easily, more accurate, faster.

This doesn't do much other than harness the (restricted) power of gravity by adding some kind of counter-balance so you can lean backwards or forwards to move.

	03-12-2001 11:47									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Kaut... your concerns are similar to concerns about the HDTV. Nice, but consumers won't pay for it while other TVs are out there. However, prices have been dropping fast, and soon everyone will be buying HDTVs... I see the same happening for this.

The US government said all content must be broadcast in HDTV signals by 2006. That should boost sales already.

Some shows like ER, West Wing, Enterprise, etc. all are filmed in HDTV already.

	03-12-2001 11:48									#35
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"And because it uses more electricity than people walking, you could actually argue it's more harmful."

-Yes, but a lot of Americans drive when they really could walk, so by making "walking" 100% faster and not at all tiring...

	03-12-2001 11:52									#36
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quote: You ever been snowboarding?

Snowboarding is a recreational activity that expends a lot of energy.

This is totally different. A machine that relys on human motion to expend little to no energy for movement is totally innovative. Most technology is to do things humans do more efficiently, and this is no different.

	03-12-2001 11:56									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Snowboarding is a recreational activity that expends a lot of energy. This is totally different. A machine that relys on human motion to expend little to no energy for movement is totally innovative. Most technology is to do things humans do more efficiently, and this is no different.

It's not totally different than snowboarding. When snowboarding, shifting your weight to the left or right changes which direction you head in. In this application, shifting your weight fore/back changes your direction you head in.

Difference is snowboarding requires a downhill, snowy slope to take advantage of gravity, and this doesn't.

I think it's innovative, but again it's not really innovative. It's the welding of several applications together to make something 'neat'. The counter-balance technology already existed, so all he needed to do was shrink it down and add it into a scooter on wheels.

	03-12-2001 12:01									#38
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If you live in the burbs, you may not see the immediate use for this.

But think about city use. Who is going to drive uptown when they can simply hop on and ride? It'll be 4x faster than walking, and won't cost gasoline! No traffic, no road rage, no hefty insurance bills. Hell, why would anyone use a car when they could use this? It would pay for itself if you factor in cab fare/gasoline, insurance costs, etc.

Think about the industry use of this machine? That alone would make this company a multi-billion dollar enterprise!

	03-12-2001 12:03									#39
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quote: Originally posted by orange But think about city use. Who is going to drive uptown when they can simply hop on and ride? It'll be 4x faster than walking, and won't cost gasoline! No traffic, no road rage, no hefty insurance bills. Hell, why would anyone use a car when they could use this? It would pay for itself if you factor in cab fare/gasoline, insurance costs, etc.

Well, here I use the LRT (Light Rail Transit).

It's free to ride it anywhere downtown (must pay $1.75CDN to get anywhere outside downtown). It's 100% emissions free (electricity powered, and that electricity is 100% from wind power). And it's MUCH faster, it's heated (BIG deal in Canada, you see). And it stops at basically every street.

	03-12-2001 12:06									#40
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General Motors got rid of our light rail system in the 40s and 50s so we don't have that option anymore.

Plus, Calgary isn't exactly the sprawling metropolis that say, New York City or London is

	03-12-2001 12:07									#41
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quote: Originally posted by orange General Motors got rid of our light rail system in the 40s and 50s so we don't have that option anymore. Plus, Calgary isn't exactly the sprawling metropolis that say, New York City or London is

Actually, geographically it's one of the largest cities in North America (not counting suburb cities/towns).

We have nothing on any sides of us, so the city planners were VERY liberal in putting everything pretty far apart.

	03-12-2001 12:09									#42
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Yes yes, I'm talking population. What is there, 750,000...1 million...maybe a bit more of you canucks in cowtown?

	03-12-2001 12:11									#43
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quote: Originally posted by orange Yes yes, I'm talking population. What is there, 750,000...1 million...maybe a bit more of you canucks in cowtown?

About a million.

But your overcrowding brings up an important point:
How pissed off are people going to be when you ram your scooter into their ass in a crowded city?
More importantly, where're you going to put it? Are you going to have fun constantly leaning back and forth to stop/go as people cut you off?

It's just not very realistic.

	03-12-2001 12:14									#44
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I'm too lazy to address previous points, but has anyone considered how great this would be as a secondary systen for bumper to bumper traffic. Idiling pollution would be cut down to almost nothing...

	03-12-2001 12:20									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Asher But your overcrowding brings up an important point: How pissed off are people going to be when you ram your scooter into their ass in a crowded city?

Did you read the article It answers this question.

quote: More importantly, where're you going to put it?

It has a built in security system, and you can put it anywhere...where can you put a bicycle or a car?

quote: Are you going to have fun constantly leaning back and forth to stop/go as people cut you off?

Yeah...right...

quote: It's just not very realistic.

I think the only unrealistic thing is your claim above

	03-12-2001 12:23									#46
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quote: Originally posted by orange Did you read the article It answers this question.

I skimmed it, why don't you enlighten me?

quote: It has a built in security system, and you can put it anywhere...where can you put a bicycle or a car?

Everything has a security system. But because the system is the same across all of the Segways, a hacker could have a field day stealing everyone's and selling them on eBay to people who think it's the coolest thing ever.

And I don't know where I'd put my bicycle or a car, I take the LRT. Parking is outrageously expensive downtown, and there's no real place for bikes.

quote: Yeah...right... I think the only unrealistic thing is your claim above

How do you think that's unrealistic?
People zig-zag, cut you off, stop to tie their shoe, do everything annoying possible. And you're going twice the speed of walking on a little scooter thing, you don't see that as a potential problem?

	03-12-2001 12:27									#47
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London and New York have functional mass transit systems and wouldn't need something like this. IT works great in smaller cities.

	03-12-2001 14:49									#48
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Useless piece of kitsch trash, although it's a great tool for the physically inept. Basically an upgrade of an electric wheelchair, a market its design concepts would actually improve

Seriously, a bike will do all of this and more with little physical effort. Not criticizing the technology of this machine, just its over-hyped functionality. It's usefull for a small demographic, otherwise you're a lazy yuppy bound for obesity and more troubles than a casual bike ride - have fun!

Asher points out the reality of pedestrian problems being furthered into this mode of travel as well; if pedestrian congestion is one problem you're trying to improve, this will not do it. Why not build a plus 15 walkway system as Calgary, Montreal, et all have? Calgary has one of the top per capita down town densities in N.A., yet it's always sparse on the sidewalks. Kudos to common sense planning.

Cheers

	03-12-2001 14:52									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka Asher points out the reality of pedestrian problems being furthered into this mode of travel as well. If pedestrian congestion is one problem you're trying to solve, just build a plus 15 walkway system as Calgary did. Calgary has one of the top per capita down town densities in N.A., yet it's always sparse on the sidewalks. Kudos to common sense planning.

The most important feature of the +15 system is that you can go from skyscraper to skyscraper without ever having to step outside into the cold.

We've got the advantage of being a really modern city, so we've got some good infrastructure like the +15 systems and LRTs. Many cities aren't as fortunate.

But I don't think this little device is the answer for most people.

	03-12-2001 14:58									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The most important feature of the +15 system is that you can go from skyscraper to skyscraper without ever having to step outside into the cold.

Most definitely, for Calgary - it's effin cold walking downtown in winter with two-fold windchill from the skyscrapers. In a place like New York, the most important factor would be to relieve pedestrian congestion. Not that it's much of an issue, but most cities will eventually go the way of the plus 15 for their own reasons

	03-12-2001 17:25									#51
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Lets see. It has an electric motor, which isn't all that efficient than the ones you find in electric cars. It has a novel but impractical steering system - a thumb controlled joystick similar to the ones you find on remote control boxes works better. It costs a huge bundle.

Nah, I'll pass.

	03-12-2001 17:48									#52
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It sounds like a bicycle is superiour to this thing: Cheaper and doesn't need power.

	03-12-2001 17:53									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Kautilya Oh well. At least we will get a few Roland cracks about the American genius for self-promoting hype.

Actually, no. Given the usual substance-to-hype ratio, this one exceeds my expectations. Not really for the mass market, but for some special business uses, and an interesting base for further development.

Now uncle Al's productivity miracle crappola or Enron-the-future-of-energy, that's HYPE...

	03-12-2001 18:38									#54
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Well judged on its own it's pretty decent. In comparison to the stratospheric build-up it's completely pathetic.

The killer , as mentioned here, is going to be the price. 3000 is way too much for this for the consumer market.

It's on TV right now btw on ABC for Americans.

	03-12-2001 18:44									#55
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"In comparison to the stratospheric build-up it's completely pathetic."

Yes, but it's still below average hype.

	03-12-2001 21:51									#56
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if people in atlanta or sunbelt cities would buy it, it would be spectacular... maybe a little less traffic. of course, that would also mean that those cities would then have to build sidewalks, but hey, it's a step by step thing.

and does it keep your balance for you? what if you get roaring drunk one night, totally plastered... how would it respond to you weaving and bobbing?

bad line: friends don't let friends ride Ginger while drunk.

as for the more developed northern cities, what with mass transit and all, i don't see the need for it, really, especially at prices like that. and, what's worse, usually the walkways are crowded enough at peak hours that riding one would be rather... difficult, what with the masses of people involved. i'm thinking of chicago's lovely magnificent mile right now, during peak hours... i mean, it does say the footprint is small... but also, you'll be trying to dodge a lot of other people, most of whom will be slower, so...

usd3k?

outrageous.

bad line: friends don't let friends buy Ginger while drunk. or sober, for that matter.

	03-12-2001 22:59									#57
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Whats wrong with walking?

	03-12-2001 23:10									#58
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You have to move your legs and might become a healthy person!

	03-12-2001 23:14									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Asher All it does is use gravity to pull you forward/backwards, no?

No. Otherwise it's a perpetual motion machine, a notion I have severe problems with. Leaning backwards and forwards simply activates a control mechanism.

	03-12-2001 23:16									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis -At 8mph it's only 50% faster than me walking

8mph is at least twice as fast as you walking. Get on a treadmill and set it to 4 miles an hour and you'll see what I mean.