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Yoleus
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
ctp: see my review in our ctp section
civ3: see my impressions in our civ3 section.... |
Can you help me with a link?
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Libertarian
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quote:
Judging from how long you have been at this site... |
That's twice that you've novitatemed me. If you make your judgments in this manner, it is no wonder that you have judged the Firaxis developers to be evasive.
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crewealex
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Sheffield
Nov 2001
time: 06:16
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"If you are nice to people,they will be nice to you." Rather trite and sometimes inaccurate but nevertheless, a far better way of negotiating life than raving and abusing, People tend to respond to positive remarks(that includes construstive criticism) in a positive way.
I `ve been astonished at the insults and general unpleasantness that take place on this forum. Many participants appear to be lacking in fundamental social skills and perhaps need to spend less time cowering behind a keyboard and more time getting out and about dealing with people in the real world. Remove the cloak of annonymity and I just wonder how these people would behave then. If they interacted in the same way as they do here it would be a quick case of a clip round the ear and on you way sonny.
I`m particularly astonished at the level of abuse given out to the Firaxis employees. The very fact that they visit the forum in order to get feedback suggests that they want to improve the game and will take constructive suggestions on board. I`m impressed with their level of commitment to the game but even more impressed with their patience and tolerance towards the social inadequates who abuse them and their company. It would be quite understandable if they stopped spending time here and started work on a new project. They must be sick of all this nonsense.
I appreciate that as a new poster I have a status akin to something that resides on the bottom of a pond. However, better that than a veteran who just wishes to brag about how wonderful he is ,show people how arrogant he is and generally be as obnoxious as possible. Not everyone but certainly a significant minority.
To that minority,get out and start meeting people.
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crewealex
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Sheffield
Nov 2001
time: 06:16
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Hoek,
The criticism wasn`t directed at you in particular. It was more of a case that your thread was the last straw(certainly the title) and therefore you got the full blast of something that was directed at a lot more people.
Looking back at my previous remarks,perhaps they were a bit severely expressed for which I apologise. It`s just that I`m thoroughly sick of so many threads degenerating into slanging matches. I come here for information and intelligent comment,not snappy abuse and gormless rantings. Sometimes I get the former but too often it`s been the latter.
I note that you apologise for the title and I hope you can accept that the comments were not specifically at you.
crewealex
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AntiQaj
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.au ex-pat
Oct 1999
time: 05:16
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Here's a few things for everyone (Firaxis, sycophants, fans, ordinary player, detractors and Yin  ) to keep in mind:
- Other software houses and publishers have been far more forthcoming with patch information and general feedback, and have produced superb games. The mushroom treatment is not necessary in order to get a patch out.
- A little recognition of problems would be a good thing, but not so little that it leaves most people frustrated. Perhaps a long, comprehensive list of people's problems, the relative difficulty, a very tentative schedule would alleviate the axieties of many players.
- Firaxis are not miracle workers! They have only a limited amount of resources, and have to work with Infogrames (I'm presuming - if the patch release quality control is anything like what I remember of the SMAC patches - that some kind of authorisation is required) and these things take time.
- Yin is right - PR is not an afterthought. Whether you're a furniture maker, a software house, or a supermarket, customer service is EVERYTHING to the company that wants to make money. Hype will only go so far. Quality of product and aftersales service count for a LOT.
- Isn' there some kind of quoe that says for eevery disgruntled customer, you lose ten sales? Word of mouth is POWERFUL.
- Alienating your customer base is Not A Good Thing. Look what happened with SMAC and ACOL. Many of the ACOLytes were Civ fans when they bought SMAC, but because of certain PR blunders by Firaxis (some of which they appear to be repeating) they created a community of people who will NEVER buy another Firaxis game, no matter how good.
- One patch is better than no patches. Be thankful.
- A mostly fixed game is better than a hastily patched game. Be vigilant.
My biggest piece of advice is to Dan Magaha. Get someone at Firaxis to authorise a weekly report to release to the Apolyton community. Briefly (but not too briefly) outline what work happened on Civ3 over the past week, including problems identified, problems solved, fixes abandoned etc. Just so it looks like you're doing more than occasional posts on the boards here. Even just the appearance of doing something is better than almost silence. I know you may have your hands tied regarding what information you're allowed to release, but try to convince someone in charge that this would, if nothing else, create a large amount of good will in people who stand to be your future customers
Rant mode off!
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Thresh1642
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Midwest
Dec 2001
time: 05:16
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quote:
Software houses and publishers have been far more forthcoming with patch information and general feedback, and have produced superb games. The mushroom treatment is not necessary in order to get a patch out. |
And other companies have released bad games with no patches at all. We seem to be in a middle gound at the moment. At least there are people from Fireaxis responding to our enquiries
quote:
A little recognition of problems would be a good thing, but not so little that it leaves most people frustrated. Perhaps a long, comprehensive list of people's problems, the relative difficulty, a very tentative schedule would alleviate the axieties of many players. |
Problem with this is, people will see a tentative schedule, and assume its the real schedule, and when it's not adhered to, they'll pitch a fit. Say something at 10AM, people will start wondering at Noon what's going on, and getting mad a 2PM the problems not solved. And worse, lets say the people at Firaxis are considering 100 things to add with the editor. If they print that list, people will look at it and critique, which is not a problem. But, if the editor is released, and only 75-85 of those ites are included, the howls will be heard across the land like you wouldn't believe.
quote:
Firaxis are not miracle workers! They have only a limited amount of resources, and have to work with Infogrames (I'm presuming - if the patch release quality control is anything like what I remember of the SMAC patches - that some kind of authorisation is required) and these things take time. |
True. Very True
quote:
Yin is right - PR is not an afterthought. Whether you're a furniture maker, a software house, or a supermarket, customer service is EVERYTHING to the company that wants to make money. Hype will only go so far. Quality of product and aftersales service count for a LOT. |
Also true, but then Dan and Jeffs participation in these threads and Firaxis efforts to pathc the game shouldn't be considered bad PR.
quote:
Isn' there some kind of quote that says for every disgruntled customer, you lose ten sales? Word of mouth is POWERFUL. |
Thats true, but it also depends on what the mouth in question is saying.
[QOUTE] Alienating your customer base is Not A Good Thing. Look what happened with SMAC and ACOL. Many of the ACOLytes were Civ fans when they bought SMAC, but because of certain PR blunders by Firaxis (some of which they appear to be repeating) they created a community of people who will NEVER buy another Firaxis game, no matter how good.
One patch is better than no patches. Be thankful.
A mostly fixed game is better than a hastily patched game. Be vigilant. [/QUOTE]
All true. we had to go through what, six or seven patches for Civ2. I never played CTP or CTP2, so I am not sure how many patches there are for those games.
I do think that for the majority of Civ3 gamers (those of us who are not big fans of MP) are that upset over the product that was sold. It wasn't as buggy as it could have been, and the majority of the bugs affecting gameplay have been resolved with this first patch.
Besides, I like to try and beat the game first before modding it, so waiting for an editor is not driving me up the proverbial wall.
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crewealex
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Sheffield
Nov 2001
time: 06:16
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"Homage"
A thoughtful and intelligent choice of vocabulary. Some other people would call it blind stupidity!
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Yoleus
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
I didn't say patch, and I didn't say an expansion, either. This is exactly the kind of "conclusion-jumping" that I was referring to in my original post.
Simply put, for those who may have missed it earlier, we aren't saying *anything* until we know whether it's going to happen or not.
Dan |
Thanks for the reply!
You are right, that was just my PERSONAL and UNSUPPORTED opinion.
I am sorry if I sounded conclusion-jumping, I will try to stress it more in the future (more IMHOs).
The thing is that I miss any external info. I just do not know anything of what Firaxis is planning to do for CivIII. Not the minimal bit of info, exactly as you posted. I just know that there is out a fair game (CivIII) but with no MP, no editor, no scenarios. I spent some time in the forum to collect some reasonable opinions (quite difficult, even cutting apart Yin and Libertarian who, by the way, are talking to each other in a nice 2 posters thread ) and to get some info on the version to buy: the standard is pretty uncomplete (IMHO), the LE is a joke (IMHO), the eventual others I do not know nothing of, and you say Firaxis does not know for sure either, even if it has been working on the game for a while and relies on its sells. So THE ONLY THING I CAN DO IS SPECULATE.
If it bothers you, I am sorry. I am just quite disappointed.
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AntiQaj
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.au ex-pat
Oct 1999
time: 05:16
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MarkG, sure, there are a few of us at PlanetACOL who bought the game and like it. But we were severely disappointed with the sheer number of bugs in SMAC/SMAX, even after all the patches. Those of us that did buy the game were willing to give Firaxis the benefit of the doubt and see if they could get a handle on quality control this time around, not to mention the exceptionall poor way they handled some PR issues like the forum and email feedback. The really did give the impression they were only interested in our money and not much else (note: this may not have been the case, but it was the impression most of us had).
This time, I'd like to think they've changed, but if they have, the change is very slight. I don't think I'll be buying another Firaxis game, no matter how fun-looking or hyped it is, if this one ends up like SMAC/SMAX did (ie. still full of bugs, with many of the ones identified in v1.0 still manifest!)
But don't get me wrong. Civ3 is a good game, not a GREAT game, though with some knuckling down on the part of the programmers it could be.
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Kolyana
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quote:
Alienating your customer base is Not A Good Thing. Look what happened with SMAC and ACOL. Many of the ACOLytes were Civ fans when they bought SMAC, but because of certain PR blunders by Firaxis (some of which they appear to be repeating) they created a community of people who will NEVER buy another Firaxis game, no matter how good. |
Ooh, me smells Gossip.
Do tell, what happened with SMAC? I bought the game, played it to hell, then stopped and went onto other things when they started releasing all sorts of addons and stuff.
Go on ... add some detail to this ...
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Kolyana
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quote:
And Jeff was busy writing articles about how fans get more enjoyment on-line when there are bugs to talk about. In fact, he still claims, on-line communities simply die when a game lacks bugs to talk about. |
?
:: Blank Stare ::
HAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA.
:: sniff ::
:: Wipes tear ::
I'd put that up with "I invented the Internet".
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