09-12-2001 09:39									#1
	ATHEISTS Are Narrow Minded. Tired of ads?

I went to church the other day. Boring as hell, almost gothic, the songs were ridiculous, and the priest was a stupid moron. For you narrow minded ones out there, that's enough to walk right out and never go back in - isn't it?

But those open to the teachings of Jesus? Those interested in going beyond the fanatics, the literal? They'll find the true meaning of it all, if they look at what the religious life is all about. I encourage all of you to go to mass, or pick up a Bible - it's a lot deeper than what you'd think it to be after talking with an occasional idiot or two around town.

Atheists are quitters. True believers are those who endure.

	09-12-2001 09:41									#2
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Atheists are narrow minded, Theists are narrow minded.

Us Agnostics are the only truly open minded people, using your logic. But us agnostics don't give a **** one way or the other either.

	09-12-2001 09:47									#3
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CAPITALISTS Are Narrow Minded.

I went a Communist Party meeting the other day. Boring as hell, almost Stalinist, the songs were ridiculous, and the "comrades" were all stupid morons. For you narrow minded ones out there, that's enough to walk right out and never go back in - isn't it?

But those open to the teachings of Marx? Those interested in going beyond the fanatics, the literal? They'll find the true meaning of it all, if they look at what the Communist life is all about. I encourage all of you to go look up your neighborhood Spartacist League, or pick up Das Capital - it's a lot deeper than what you'd think it to be after talking with an occasional idiot or two around town.

Capitalist are quitters. True proletarians are those who endure.

Same difference.

Also interesting is your contention that to now be narrow-minded you have to be a "true believer" and your rather arrogant assumption that none of us atheists know anything about the Bible. And finally, even if Jesus' moral teachings were valid (which they aren't) then it would hardly follow that he was the avatar of a Supreme Being.

	09-12-2001 09:48									#4
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You people go around saying everyone who believes different from you is narrow minded. Ever really looked at yourselves?

	09-12-2001 09:50									#5
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Bah, by your logic, I could create a religion based on my morality and write a book full of cool myths with an underlying philosophical message and then call all people who don't believe narrow minded.

	09-12-2001 09:53									#6
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Sabre, ever really looked at the thread?

Zhu the communist, there's a huge difference and you know it. Believing is wired into us, it is infused: irrational ways of thinking are not. They are earned by ignorance.

Victor, again, there is a difference between what the mind can imagine on its own and what can be realized naturally with minimal support from the outside. A big difference.

Asher, you simply cannot take the middle ground and hope to get anywhere in life. You are worse than an atheist - you actually admit to quitting.

	09-12-2001 09:54									#7
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Your world-view has a loving and wise God at its centre, watching over His children. My world-view has no one sitting at the centre; instead every speck of dust twirls around independently and beauty is formed from the randomness.

Your faith lies in a divine man who died to show the practices that would lead away from sin and towards redemption. My faith lies in mankind and the belief that people are good and noble deep down inside.

Your salvation is earned in leading a good life and helping others. My salvation is earned in leading a good life and helping others.

The overall ideal is the same, it's only the details where we differ. And remember, God is in the details.

	09-12-2001 09:55									#8
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I just started reading the New Testament today, and it's actually quite inspiring. There are plenty of passages that almost make me believe in God, as they are so remarkably original and unbelievably well-written. However, the Bible is not alone in that respect. What makes it more truthful than the countless other masterpieces of religious literature, such as the Bhagavad Gita, the Koran, the Hebrew Bible, the Tao, the Book of Going Forth by Day, the Tibetan Book of the Dead, the Upanishads, and all the rest? Christianity isn't the only religion out there.

	09-12-2001 09:57									#9
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bah, victor, why don't you just save yourself the trouble and consolidate all of tolkein's books into one massive totem, and base your religion upon that?

i'm sure you could get plenty of followers.

even more if you promised free minister cards online...

======

and besides, we all know that humans are a rather narrow-minded species.

why else has so much gone wrong in so little time?

only when we truly begin thinking in eleven, or twenty-seven, or twenty-seven-half, or schfifty-five dimensions, as the universe may turn out to be, that's when we'll be open-minded.

but given humanity's trend, i don't think it will be even then.

	09-12-2001 09:58									#10
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Wiglaf is a another variation of BD, Giannie, etc. Why bother reasoning with him?

	09-12-2001 10:01									#11
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He's another damn Catholic. Must be a troll.

	09-12-2001 10:03									#12
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Bah!

Umguf the Purple with Pink Polka Dot Unicorn is the one true diety!

You those who can't accept this fact are narrowed minded quitters!!!

Even though Umguf loves you all the same you are still condemned to an eternity in fire and brimstone!!!!!!!!!

	09-12-2001 10:03									#13
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"so remarkably original"
Really, never noticed that much origonal...

"Zhu the communist"
Not a communist, just using an analogy.

"there's a huge difference and you know it"
No I don't.

"Believing is wired into us"
Believing what?

	09-12-2001 10:04									#14
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UR: That belief was not infused, it was created out of the ignorance of the mind. I think you knew that, too.

Zhu: We are naturally believers in God, every one of us. Some just stray from the path to create our own little fads or whatever. Those who are on the right moral level, do not. Very simple.

	09-12-2001 10:04									#15
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You shouldn't put BD in that category. He's not prone to ignorance or fits of absurdity or anything of the sort. He actually reasons quite well, only the selective evidence on which he bases his claims is not the same as our selective evidence.

	09-12-2001 10:05									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Us Agnostics are the only truly open minded people, using your logic.

Agnosticism is for those who can't get a grasp on the basic laws of logic.

	09-12-2001 10:05									#17
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"Zhu the communist, there's a huge difference and you know it. Believing is wired into us, it is infused: irrational ways of thinking are not. They are earned by ignorance."

-Er... belief in religion is irrational by definition. Faith is not rational.

"Victor, again, there is a difference between what the mind can imagine on its own and what can be realized naturally with minimal support from the outside. A big difference."

-Granted, but christianity can not be realized naturally with minimal support from the outside.

"bah, victor, why don't you just save yourself the trouble and consolidate all of tolkein's books into one massive totem, and base your religion upon that?

i'm sure you could get plenty of followers.

even more if you promised free minister cards online..."

-You know that was my original thought But then I reconsidered. I was thinking more along the lines of following Waukeen (hah, figure out where that's from).

	09-12-2001 10:06									#18
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Wiglaf, I know it's hard for you to keep up with all your various opponents, but I can I get a response too?

	09-12-2001 10:08									#19
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Ramo: Why bother reasoning with him?
Victor: For fun and profit.
Ramo: Profit?
Victor: Step 1. Refute Wiglaf's points. Step 2. Step 3 Profit.
Ramo: Wait. What was step 2?
Victor: Step 1. Refute Wiglaf's points. Step 2. Step 3 Profit.

	09-12-2001 10:12									#20
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"Zhu: We are naturally believers in God, every one of us. Some just stray from the path to create our own little fads or whatever. Those who are on the right moral level, do not. Very simple."
That's a strange claim to make, especially in the light of the fact that the vast majority of human societies that've existed over the course of history have not been monotheistic. Hell, even early Judaism wasn't monotheistic.

	09-12-2001 10:14									#21
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Sure Frodo, I apologize.

- "I just started reading the New Testament today, and it's actually quite inspiring. There are plenty of passages that almost make me believe in God, as they are so remarkably original and unbelievably well-written. However, the Bible is not alone in that respect. What makes it more truthful than the countless other masterpieces of religious literature, such as the Bhagavad Gita, the Koran, the Hebrew Bible, the Tao, the Book of Going Forth by Day, the Tibetan Book of the Dead, the Upanishads, and all the rest? Christianity isn't the only religion out there." -

Hey, if you want to be religious, that's a great start. Go with your conscience, but we are all naturally slanted towards Jesus in the end. If you truely follow your heart, it will lead to God. Every time.

Zhu, yes Christianity is infused at birth, and even right now. You simply reject it. And why would atheism be rational? That's pretty ridiculous, considering the numbers of non believers for less than innocent reasons (full knowledge of the faith) has been rising only in recent years.

	09-12-2001 10:14									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Wiglaf UR: That belief was not infused, it was created out of the ignorance of the mind. I think you knew that, too.

That clearly is a proclamation with no basis in reality.

Pick a random person who has never been in contact with Judeo-Christianity. Does he have this so called "natural belief" in your god?

Even Christian doctrines contradict this. If that indeed were true there would be no need for a Jesus of Nazareth, for everybody would have believed in YHWH.

So Wiglaf, other than baseless assertions, are we going to get anything else from you?

	09-12-2001 10:15									#23
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waukeen?

baldur's gate 2, isn't it?

	09-12-2001 10:16									#24
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quote: He's another damn Catholic. Must be a troll.

Yes. I think all Catholics are evil. In fact, they should all be sent to concentration camps.

If there's ever a time to say "PC," I can't think of a better one than now.

	09-12-2001 10:18									#25
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quote: Ramo: Why bother reasoning with him? Victor: For fun and profit. Ramo: Profit? Victor: Step 1. Refute Wiglaf's points. Step 2. Step 3 Profit. Ramo: Wait. What was step 2? Victor: Step 1. Refute Wiglaf's points. Step 2. Step 3 Profit.

Ah yes. Gotta love South Park.

	09-12-2001 10:18									#26
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oh, and as for the "natural slant towards jesus from birth" and it being infused at that time?

here's a thought.

we could take two babies, isolate them completely, and see what kind of religion they come up with.

======

for some reason, it sounds remarkably like an experiment an ancient persian king once performed, seeking the natural language that all babies were infused with.

he isolated two babies.

they both grew speak in grunts and moans. of course, one of these grunts was vaguely reminiscent of the word for "sheep"... and because of that, he concluded that the natural language was a certain one.

unfortunately, the child was merely mimicking the sound that the sheep made.

	09-12-2001 10:18									#27
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"Zhu, yes Christianity is infused at birth, and even right now."

ROTFLMAO! Tell that to remote african tribesmen, or say the Chinese.

"You simply reject it."

-As I reject the opinion that santa claus is real.

"And why would atheism be rational?"

-Lack of evidence of something divine.

"That's pretty ridiculous, considering the numbers of non believers for less than innocent reasons (full knowledge of the faith) has been rising only in recent years."

-I'm more puritanical than you, I reject the notion that belief in your God in any way strengthens my morality.

	09-12-2001 10:20									#28
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and as for catholics in concentration camps, although i'd have to go, i figure it might be one of the best ways to reduce the population crisis. why?

a) catholics don't believe in any form of birth control outside of the rhythm method, which isn't altogether too useful.

b) there are well over a billion catholics.

so, even though i'd have to die, it's a good solution.

	09-12-2001 10:21									#29
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"baldur's gate 2, isn't it?"

-In a way yes. She's a godess of the Faerunian pantheon (i.e. exists in any games/stories supposed to be set there). The 3rd Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting gives a short blurb of Waukeenar dogma. It's pretty sensible.

	09-12-2001 10:25									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Wiglaf Zhu, yes Christianity is infused at birth, and even right now. You simply reject it. And why would atheism be rational? That's pretty ridiculous, considering the numbers of non believers for less than innocent reasons (full knowledge of the faith) has been rising only in recent years.

Real Soon Now, we'll be getting some real arguments instead of the same old, same old regurgitated over and over again.