11-12-2001 21:06									#61
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100 million foreign innocents are worth more than 3000 innocents killed in the WTC.
10,000 innocent Pals worth more than 20 innocent Israelis.
2 dead Pals dont.

It's really hard to talk about human lives like that, but this is the truth. The US does the same before every bombing in Afganistan. They ask themselves what will be the price in dead civilians and decide. So they will bomb some target knowing that there are civilians nearby, but they wont use Fuel-Air bombs in the middle of Kabul, no matter how effective that is.

	11-12-2001 21:08									#62
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Kill one child, and you are a murderer. Kill two children, and you are an Israeli.

	11-12-2001 21:10									#63
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I don't think that Sharon would have killed this poor kids. I don't think that even if he hates pals, he will kill kids.

But the fact 'he' uses missiles to kill a single person, shows that he don't take care so much about side effects (colateral effect ?).

The question is :
Have the Israeli tried to kill him because he was planning a terror act very soon? Or just to make afraid the pals autorities ?

In the first case, the use of missile with the eventual side effect it implies is maybe the less worst solution.
In the second case, it is just terrorism.

This question will of course never be answered.

	11-12-2001 21:30									#64
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Eli,
That is what I am talking about, it is insane to think to kill 100 million innocents to stop 3000 innocent deaths, all I am saying it was a stupid decision to lauch missiles at the terrorist in a crowed intersection. Your intelligence knew he was in the car, they knew the child was in the car, they knew where he was going and they could have gotton an operative to kill him without such collateral damage or at least the very minimum.

If it is OK to kill children now to achieve our objective and we get comfortable with it, what's next, the USA killing 100 million to save 3000. We have to save our innocent people but without becoming them to do it, we have the ability we just have to care enough.

BTW, Infant you are an ass.

	11-12-2001 21:34									#65
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior I don't think that Sharon would have killed this poor kids. I don't think that even if he hates pals, he will kill kids. But the fact 'he' uses missiles to kill a single person, shows that he don't take care so much about side effects (colateral effect ?). The question is : Have the Israeli tried to kill him because he was planning a terror act very soon? Or just to make afraid the pals autorities ? In the first case, the use of missile with the eventual side effect it implies is maybe the less worst solution. In the second case, it is just terrorism. This question will of course never be answered.

The man was the leader of Islamic Jihad in Hebron. What do you think he was doing? Collecting charity for the Israeli victims?

	11-12-2001 21:40									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh A question for those who support this: If you knew beforehand that two children would die in the attack, would you still have wanted to go ahead with it?

Thats easy and a definate NO!!!! In that case an attempt to take him out of the car by force, but certainly not a missle attack!!!

	11-12-2001 21:44									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Two cases : B) Information that says that either this man is stopped now, or he will succeed in his teract - yes, even if there is a whole kindergarden there.

Clarification requested:
Would your course of action be the same if it were either a Kindergarden full of Palestinian children or a Kindergarden full of Jewish children?

	11-12-2001 22:04									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie Clarification requested: Would your course of action be the same if it were either a Kindergarden full of Palestinian children or a Kindergarden full of Jewish children?

What on earth will Pal terrorists be doing in Israeli kindergardens?

	11-12-2001 22:10									#69
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quote: What on earth will Pal terrorists be doing in Israeli kindergardens?

Umm, killing perhaps? (we need a "duh" smiley . )

I wouldn't put it past Palestinian terrorists to go into an Israeli Kindergarden and start nefarious activities, even if you would They could try fleeing there to use the children as human shields, etc. Many a situation, if you think about it.

So answer the question: if you'd kill a Kindergarden full of Palestinian children to get to dangerous terrorists, would you do the same for a Kindergarden of Israeli kids?

	11-12-2001 22:11									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Eli The man was the leader of Islamic Jihad in Hebron. What do you think he was doing? Collecting charity for the Israeli victims?

Or maybe he was going to eat a Kebbab with some good old friends ...

So it was a preventive strike ?

	11-12-2001 22:15									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie Umm, killing perhaps? (we need a "duh" smiley . ) I wouldn't put it past Palestinian terrorists to go into an Israeli Kindergarden and start nefarious activities, even if you would They could try fleeing there to use the children as human shields, etc. Many a situation, if you think about it. So answer the question: if you'd kill a Kindergarden full of Palestinian children to get to dangerous terrorists, would you do the same for a Kindergarden of Israeli kids?

Then they are not in the middle of a Palestinian city and a special unit team can do the job clean enough. No reason to use helicopters.

quote: Or maybe he was going to eat a Kebbab with some good old friends ... So[ it was a preventive strike ?

Halleluya.

	11-12-2001 22:16									#72
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That is an excellent question by Gibbymeister, are you willing to sacrafice a schoolyard of Jewish childred to eliminate one terrorist who would go on continuing to kill Israelis if you don't stop him? Or would you wait and try to get him later without collateral damage.

	11-12-2001 22:18									#73
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Right answer Eli,
For aguments sake lets say Pal children were visiting an Israeli school would you use that same special team if it were Pals children and then you could logically follow the train of thought and say you could have used less power in the car hit and got the terrorist another way.

	11-12-2001 22:21									#74
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I don't think I'm going to get a satisfactory answer, Defiant. I'll just have to go on thinking the worst of Eli and any other person who thinks along the same lines. I certainly wouldn't sacrifice a schoolyard full of Irish kiddies to get an Irish terrorist any more than I would sacrifice an English schoolyard, but then, the Irish aren't quite so different to the English as Palestinians are to Jews.

Please prove me wrong Eli.

	11-12-2001 22:25									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Goingonit Surprising enough, Mr. Golowka seems to be the webmaster of the Marxist-Humanist Forum Homepage. http://struggle.net/mhf/index.htm Learn somehing new every day.

I left that group years ago. I guess they havn't found a new webmaster yet.

	11-12-2001 22:26									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Infatuation Kill one child, and you are a murderer. Kill two children, and you are an Israeli.

For the record, it was Jew and not Israeli before the edit.

quote: I don't think I'm going to get a satisfactory answer, Defiant. I'll just have to go on thinking the worst of Eli and any other person who thinks along the same lines. I certainly wouldn't sacrifice a schoolyard full of Irish kiddies to get an Irish terrorist any more than I would sacrifice an English schoolyard, but then, the Irish aren't quite so different to the English as Palestinians are to Jews.

I was talking about the case of ticking bombs, not every assasination we make.

	11-12-2001 22:36									#77
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Eli,
Please answer my hypothetical question.

Gibster,
Anybody who has the choice and would knowingly kill, hurt, mame or put children into harms way is EVIL and I don't think Eli is like that, I think he is only trying to protect his gov't actions but in this case the action was dead wrong.

	11-12-2001 23:22									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Infatuation Kill one child, and you are a murderer. Kill two children, and you are an Israeli.

quote: Originally posted by Eli For the record, it was Jew and not Israeli before the edit.

So he finally gave himself away.

Apolyton OT: a few dozen posters and one stinking, steaming turd.

	11-12-2001 23:37									#79
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This is some of Nimmys finest trolling yet it must be said. The title in itself is the stuff of legends....

	11-12-2001 23:57									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant Right answer Eli, For aguments sake lets say Pal children were visiting an Israeli school would you use that same special team if it were Pals children and then you could logically follow the train of thought and say you could have used less power in the car hit and got the terrorist another way.

These are two completely different situations.

In one situation you are forced to "sacrifice" the Pal children to save lives of Israelis(since this is only in the very extreme case of "kill him or suffer a teract").
The other situation is during a teract, when your goal is to kill the terrorist and stop the teract and save as much as possible lives, no matter what children are there.

In this assasination, they should've waited. Unless there was information like "immediately after that he will turn to some even busier intersection and give the bomb to someone", but I dont believe that in this case such information was available.

	12-12-2001 00:29									#81
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my first post on this dumb thread .

I'll paraphrase Infat.

The Palestinians know what they have to do if they want to stop the cycle of violence...






sorry for the kids . It's really bad when this **** happens.

and no , I wouldn't sacrifice a kindergarden full of palestinian kids to kill terrorists.

	12-12-2001 00:34									#82
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"In this assasination, they should've waited."

Eli, that is all I wanted to hear, you are right, they should have waited, and if your public is smart enough and also didn't like the children dying and speak up a little, your gov't will probably avoid it next time. Thank you.

	12-12-2001 00:35									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Dalgetti my first post on this dumb thread . I'll paraphrase Infat. The Palestinians know what they have to do if they want to stop the cycle of violence...

Thanks - Otherwise I would have had to read the whole two pages.

I don't suppose you'd paraphrase all the posts of greater than 50 word would ya?

	12-12-2001 00:42									#84
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This stuff about killing 100 million to save 3000.... when was it ever suggested (by someone who counts) that it would be necessary to kill 100 million people to bring the terrorists to bay?

	12-12-2001 00:45									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Dont foget to bring one million body bags.

Yeah, I figured you guys wouldn't be too hot on this idea. That makes my point. There really isn't much that we can do about this situation.

	12-12-2001 00:54									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba Thanks - Otherwise I would have had to read the whole two pages. I don't suppose you'd paraphrase all the posts of greater than 50 word would ya?

Infat: Israel likes killing Palestinian schoolchildren
Everyone else: No they don't

	12-12-2001 00:58									#87
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quote: I don't suppose you'd paraphrase all the posts of greater than 50 word would ya?

... thnx,but no thnx

Dr. Strangelove : I don't think that the Israelis would kill americans... me and some of my friends enjoyed a few beers with some US NAVY crewmen , when you aircraft carrier was around ( Eisenhower , IIRC ).
but if it looks that you're here to stay ....

	12-12-2001 01:03									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Goingonit Infat: Israel likes killing Palestinian schoolchildren Everyone else: No they don't

Oh right. Is it nearly Christmas again then?

	12-12-2001 01:03									#89
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Dalgetti,
If we were there to stay, Israel would become the 51st state of America and there isn't a damn thing you could do about it, but die in defense.

	12-12-2001 01:26									#90
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In response to Rogan's question, I'd be willing to accept two innocent deaths, but not a whole kindergarten. And if you think this is shocking, it's really not different from the new policy which I fully support, of shooting down hijacked planes.