09-02-2002 10:26									#61
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by axi These numbers on the paths are there for a reason; they show you in how many turns the unit will be on each tile. This is the whole point of setting a unit's path: to give orders to the unit for many turns to come. This is an advancement over civ2 already established in the genre (It was in SMAC and CtP and I guess in Civ3 too)

That's good.
I like this feature. Should be in any game with respect for itself if you ask me.
However my question is if the unit is supposed to be drawn at the middle of the path like this :
0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - Unit - 2 - 3 - 3 etc.
(or maybe it was 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - Unit - 0 - 1 - 1 etc .. can't remember)

The unit was drawn in the correct physical position (judging from where it was last turn), but it was like old orders stayed behind.

Jorgen

	09-02-2002 16:57									#62
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hi Colorrr:

Sounds like a bug to me. Unfortunately finding what causes it will be tough since I expect its not reproducible. I'll put it in the bug report. If you see a Kind of circumstance in which it tends to happen, please let me know.

Alternatively you can run the game from the command line using the -seed command line option to make the random number generator start with our pre-set seed. If you can say what every move was leading up to the bug, then it can be duplicated. Probably not very practical unless it shows up quite quickly...

Last edited by Mark_Everson on 09-02-2002 at 17:06

	05-03-2002 03:31									#63
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Nothing fancy to report, just some feature requests, that I had forgot to post:

The government window should open only once and each consecutive click on the government button should bring it on top.

Citizens in the details frame should be rounded to the nearest integer for obvious reasons.

Roadbuilding should have an undo option just as troop movement has. Roadbuilding could use the same code as pathfinding to show on the map the number of turns in which each road segment will be built, with priority based on the order with which the orders were given. Cancelling an existing order should alter the numbers for all consecutive orders.

There should be an option to make visible all friendy TF paths on the map. It would also be nice to have a preview of where each unit should be next turn, if nothing intervenes. This is in anticipation of future major wars.

All edit options in the government window should be removed or disabled for the demo. They belong to the Clash Editor, if and when we will have it and in the testbed only.

	23-03-2002 16:34									#64
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Just to make sure others know, there Is no govt stuff in D6, Axi is talking about a crude pre-d7 version we call the Clash Testbed.

Hi Axi:

Some good points on the govt gui. The govt stuff clearly isn't ready for prime time yet...

quote: Originally posted by axi There should be an option to make visible all friendy TF paths on the map. It would also be nice to have a preview of where each unit should be next turn, if nothing intervenes. This is in anticipation of future major wars.

I like this a lot, although how soon this is likely to be done would depend on how much effort it would take. I think it would be Really cool to step in turns through an entire offensive and check the timing.

	24-03-2002 03:22									#65
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The government gui has been scrapped - it wasn't written for this purpose anyway - and is being replaced by a version that is almost working.

Cheers

	30-03-2002 09:09									#66
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Moved this from a different thread...

My demo 6 experiences so far...
5 plays of it, one abbrreviated get some feel trying the small start (third option.) 4 Rome vs. ones. First one I stopped halfway through feeling confused and wanting to read the documentation.

Second one I goofed with stuff on the economics screen never sure where and what effect anything I was changing was doing with much "Dang, I just really want a unit to be made." I got the ROI somewhat from reading, but wasn't sure what its real effect was and when I just wanted some unit produced and the barbarians are at the gates.

Third time I tried not to goof with economics as much, but ran into alot of resource reduction messages and wasn't sure what to do about those, I got a few units to pop out and got crushed. Eventually down to one city and couldn't get any troops to be made there, and the enemy was stocking up many many units on my other two cities.

Fourth time I realized that I didn't seem to get much effect (as in numbers other than 0 to the right of unit % spend) unless my taxes were 9 or 10%. Not sure I understand what I was taxing or why some numbers would go up and others down when I changed tax rates. Eventually I got some different units to pop out and sent them off to battle and explored and conquered and won. About halfway through no more units were popping out and don't know why.

Rather than try to assert my own analysis or suggestions on top of these, I'll leave these my pretty raw experiences here.

Oh yeah, control things that I got frustrated with here and there. When exploring couldn't figure out why sometimes I could go deep into the black areas and others couldn't get anywhere but an adjacent square. I found myself clicking on map stuff alot, not sure why I wasn't selecting a unit.

All in all, pretty cool, lots more I wish to understand with what I was doing, but combat and sense of development and exploration were all present. Definitely left me saying : "More"

	30-03-2002 18:16									#67
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Gar Oh yeah, control things that I got frustrated with here and there. When exploring couldn't figure out why sometimes I could go deep into the black areas and others couldn't get anywhere but an adjacent square. I found myself clicking on map stuff alot, not sure why I wasn't selecting a unit. All in all, pretty cool, lots more I wish to understand with what I was doing, but combat and sense of development and exploration were all present. Definitely left me saying : "More"

Hi Gar, thanks for the input. As you know we're working on clarifying and adding important features to the econ interface, so I won't comment further here.

On the not being able to move into the black sometimes... The issue is terrain prohibitions for units, the most obvious being that land units can't move into water squares! So if in the black there is a water square, well, you get the idea. Any time a path doesn't exist, you can't move there! In D6 there are also some prohibitions on horse and chariot movement. These are being scaled back for D7. Glad to hear some of the right things seemed to be calling .

	31-03-2002 00:21									#68
	If you complained about the econ in D6... Put an end to popups!

For all those who thought the econ gui in D6 was confusing, and lacked important features, we are reworking the gui for D7!

Please stop by in the thread Working out a new Economy GUI for Demo 7+ , and especially check out my proposal of today.

I'd really like to hear opinions from as wide a variety of people as possible!

Thanks,

Mark

	13-04-2002 04:38									#69
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Demo 6 impressions (from someone who hasn't seen Demo 5, 4, etc). I haven't read the previous Demo 6 comments in depth, so I may be repeating things that have already been pointed out.

First, I double-click the ClashD6_12.jar file, and I see the ...

"Select the option" screen
1. No splash screen, or opening movie... That's ok. The opening screen looks pretty good, and it works.
2. I know this is picky, but "Select an option" sounds better to me than "the" option.
3. The logo is a button, which seems odd.

I click on "Select a scenario" and up comes the ...

"Select the scenario" screen
1. Should this be resizable, or a fixed size? I vote for fixed, since it's acting like a dialog box.
2. Again, the logo on the left size is a button. Should something happen when I click it (right now nothing does happen)?
3. "Carthago delenda est" is the title of the first scenario. What does that mean?
4. I can delete all the text from the scenario descriptions. Should they be read-only, or better yet, not text boxes at all (see below)?

Here's what I'd expect to see on this screen:
1. All the scenarios are listed, but in a bigger font, and without descriptions. They aren't buttons, either.
2. The logo is still on here somewhere.
3. As the user moves the cursor over the scenario name, the scenario name is highlighted somehow, or a box drawn around it, or something to indicate which scenario you're about to select; and the description is displayed in a different part of the dialog.
4. If the user moves the cursor off the scenario name, the description disappears (basic mouse-over behaviour).
5. If the user clicks on the name of a scenario, that scenario is selected.

Ok, I click "Select" next to the first scenario, and I see the ...

"Select the civilization" screen:
1. Logo = button...
2. While typing this, I forgot which scenario I chose. It would be nice to have the selected scenario and the description displayed here so I can make an informed civilization choice.
3. It would also be nice to have a short description of the differing goals of each civilization in the scenario. Again, this should be a roll-over type effect.
4. If I selected the wrong scenario, there's no way to go back and choose something different. I have to exit and restart.

I click on "Computer Only", and after a little while, up comes the ...

"Clash Demo 6.1" screen
Impressions:
1. The map itself looks very cool. It's not a cool as, say, Age Of Kings, but I can live with that.
2. I'm not sure I like having everything in different frames, like it's set up now. That could be because I'm used to having one main window partitioned into different setions, instead of different windows.
3. On the menu bar, "Options" and "Econ Options" don't have any options below them. They should be grayed out if there's nothing to select.
4. Since the toolbar simply presents the exact options as the menus do, one of them feels redundant.
5. I have to click on a square/unit for them to show up in the Units/Detail Frame windows. It would be really cool for this to happen automatically as the mouse moves over a unit/square.
6. When I click on a unit and it appears in the "Units" window, it's nearly impossible to read the text above the units. Yellow and Green on a grey background doesn't work too well.
7. Also on the "Units" window, scrollbars keep appearing when they aren't necessary.
8. It would be nice to have more information about the units in that window. Simply knowing that the horse icon on the map is really two horse icons doesn't tell me very much. What are the capabilities of the individual units, how healthy are they?
9. Ok, I just right-clicked on one of the units and saw the little pop-up box that lists what I was wondering in the previous comment. It's not intuitive, though.
10. I restarted the game and am playing as a human player, so now I can see how to create/disband Task Forces.
11. I just disbanded a group of 4 units into separate armies. The last unit is halfway out of the "Units" window, but there's no horizontal scrollbar so I can scroll over to that unit; only a vertical scrollbar, which I don't need.
12. I'm getting the hang of giving orders. Pretty cool, once you get the hang of it. I like the "nearest friend/enemy" idea.
13. If I have a number of different units in a square, and I want to form them into two different task forces, is there a way to do that, other than move half the units to a different square?
14. Can we rename the armies?
15. Can we change the "martial attitude"? Does everybody just attack for now?

I clicked on "Economics" and "Civ Econ Orders"
1. Gasp! What is this? Text boxes everywhere!!
2. I can delete/change any of the text anywhere. I don't think I'm supposed to be able to do that.
3. I've read some of the discussion about completely re-doing these screen to make them more user-friendly, so I'll just wait to see the new and improved econ screens before commenting further.

Other thoughts:
1. I don't know how far along the economic model is, but it would be nice to see some highlights in the "Information frame" at the end of each turn, like income, spending, and current cash balance, units to be produced next turn, etc.
2. When I click "Next" in the Events window that pops up, it just disappears. I don't think it's supposed to do that.
3. I'd probably just use round numbers for the army attack/defence/health stats in the "Information frame". It looks kinda odd to see that my armies health is down to 5.2000003. Or better yet, why not just display them as percentages - i.e. "Health: down to 52%"

Ok, I've played 20 turns now, and the bad guys keep capturing my cities, so I'll probably end up losing. That's ok, though, because it's just a demo.

Overall, I'm quite impressed. The game clearly has a ways to go, but I can definitely see the potential.

	13-04-2002 05:45									#70
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Hi stickdude! Welcome to the Clash Project!

Glad to hear your impression is generally favorable We know we've got quite a ways to go!

I think most of the things you mentioned in your post are things we do need to fix up longer term, but IMO there are better things for us to work on short term... IOW, "Gasp! What is this? He's zeroing in on even the tiniest details!!"

Just a few quick comments on your comments.

The scroller on the TF box is IIRC an known bug, and that is probably worth fixing right now since it is a functionality issue.

To add a unit to a TF just select the TF, then rt-click the unit and choose "Assign to selected TF".

quote: 6. When I click on a unit and it appears in the "Units" window, it's nearly impossible to read the text above the units. Yellow and Green on a grey background doesn't work too well.

Very odd, its blue for me, and is supposed to be for everyone!

quote: 1. I don't know how far along the economic model is, but it would be nice to see some highlights in the "Information frame" at the end of each turn, like income, spending, and current cash balance, units to be produced next turn, etc.

Good point. I'll put this on the feature request list next time I update it. I think a list of units to build might be too much, but maybe a summary would work.

Thanks for the detailed comments! If you get to read the manual it will explain what's going on in the economy among other things.

	27-04-2002 00:22									#71
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

hey there,
i just downloaded demo 6, after some extracting, searching and copying, i finally got it to run (don't worry, there is nothing with the jar, my jre install is messed up) and my first impression is that it looks very good, the first demo i played was demo 4, and this looks much better, great progres
I have no idea what most of the options do yet, but that's because i haven't read the manual yet...but i got one week free, so maybe i'll get around to that.

Well, that's all i can and have to say for now....i'm gonna read the manual and play the demo some more

	28-04-2002 19:16									#72
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Thanks Lemmy, glad to hear you think things are heading in the right direction! Once you read the manual and try things out a little more, I'd appreciate it if you'd let us know in more detail what you like and don't like.

	30-04-2002 05:50									#73
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by stickdude 3. The logo is a button, which seems odd. 2. Again, the logo on the left size is a button. Should something happen when I click it (right now nothing does happen)? 4. I can delete all the text from the scenario descriptions. Should they be read-only, or better yet, not text boxes at all (see below)?

That's easy enough, the devs could use JLabels instead of JButtons and whatever they're using for the text boxes. (I'm assuming they're using Swing.)

Like so:

quote: //data members. JLabel background; ImageIcon backgroundIcon; //code to make & add the pic. backgroundIcon = new ImageIcon("background.png"); background=/forums/new JLabel(backgroundIcon); getContentPane().add(background);

Alternately, they can do this to JButtons:
background.setBorderPainted(false);

	02-05-2002 08:20									#74
	Remove this text

Thanks for the comments Shadowlord, and welcome to the Clash Project. Most of the interfaces are still in the development stage, and as you'll see if you downloaded the demo, are pretty rough. We'll get them done right in all the details eventually, but right now there are a bunch of more pressing issues. FE getting the econ interface to the point that people don't barf when they see it!

	05-05-2002 20:49									#75
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ok, i know i said i would be playing the demo, but i spend most of my time reading about the models
And i like what i read, especially the social model.

But i was wondering, did you make all those models before you started programming?

My week off is over now, so i don't think i'll get any time soon to actually play the demo

	05-05-2002 22:56									#76
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hey Lemmy:

Glad you liked the models. They were designed while coding was ongoing, but admittedly the models usually ran well ahead of the programming. Too bad you didn't make time to check out the demo... that's life. Hopefully we'll have D7 out within a month or so. Things are fairly close for it, but all the programmers seem to have too much RL at the moment!

	25-05-2002 12:25									#77
	Sorry if this is a duplicate bug Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I played Demo 6 last night (Cradle) as Jerico and enjoyed it. I did notice that at one point Army1 got duplicated. I had Army1 in two captured cities and whenever I added a unit to on of these Army1's it was added to both. Both armies were defending their respective cities. However when I issued move orders to them one caught up to the other one and they merged back together. I can try to duplicate what I did, but I have no idea if the Economic settings had anything to do with it. If they did, you're out of luck, sorry. I don't remember them.

David

	25-05-2002 16:49									#78
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Hi Big Dave. Thanks for posting, and congratulations, this looks like a new bug. Well... I don't think the economy plays a role in that bug. If you are able to reproduce it, I'd be interested in knowing how to do it as right now I can't see what could cause the problem (and thus can't get rid of it).

	29-05-2002 03:33									#79
	Put an end to popups!

Whew, finally read through all of that stuff. This is one message board where you can't really read more than one big new thread per day =)

quote: 6. When I click on a unit and it appears in the "Units" window, it's nearly impossible to read the text above the units. Yellow and Green on a grey background doesn't work too well.

Ok, I think I know what he's talking about and I noticed it too. I belive he's referring to the the fact that each Army (and the text accosictaed with them) in the Units window is shown in the Color of the civilization that "owns" it. It looks really bad for the Yellow and Green Civs (available in the 3rd scenario if not the others). Not a tough fix (Nor an important one, but do it by 8 at least

quote: 2. When I click "Next" in the Events window that pops up, it just disappears. I don't think it's supposed to do that.

Looks like you missed or at least didn't respond to this one. I noticed it too; another simple (although not dire, again) fix most likely. I'll go into a little more detail to clarify: When the events window pops up at the begging of the turn, you can hit previous to check the previous turn's events. If you press Next to go back to the current events, the box disapears.

quote: Hopefully we'll have D7 out within a month or so.

Heh, you said that 3 months ago I've programmed myself, so I know how it is, don't worry =) Always takes at LEAST 3 times as long as you expect.

It's a shame your not programming it in Visual Basic. I know that would prevent use from Macs, but we don't have that currently with Java either =) It works fine and all, but with VB I could fix some of those "non-essintial" type glitches in only a few minutes. (PLus I could help code, heh. Oh well) It's ok tho. It's looking decent in Java so far and is moving along smoothy (considering there are what, 3 coders?) and I look forward to D7.

Another irksome style you use is how the menus work. When you click on a menu that has more than one option associated with it (IE, almost every single menu) they pop up somewhere else on the screen. I find that pretty annoying; If it was done similar to standard windows submenus (where you move the mouse down to the menu target, and the submenus pop out--like the start menU) that would be ideal. Something close would be good too; right now it's quite odd =) Perhaps having that fixed by D8 would be good.

Related to the above: Some of the submenus are really unneeded. I primarily refer to the Hide options; If you just want to hide it, you can close it or you can click on the map to give it the focus. There's probably some reason they are in there but it's not obvious to me

I still need to play around with 6 some more, but there's my inital findings. I mentioned this on another thread but I'll post it here real quick too: At one point during my initial test run, It would not let me end the turn. I played probably 4, maybe a few more turns, kinda at random, just moving TFs around and such. Then on that turn after messing with the economics at semi-random, I go to end the turn and it told me "Cannot end turn, this turn still in progress" (Or something similar; That should be enough to find the code related) I waited a while, tried assigning new commands, messed with the econ some more and it still kept saying that any time I clicked End Turn. I don't know if it's reproduceable, but I'll try.

On a "helping out" note: It sounds like you still don't have much of anyone working on graphics. I'm certainly no graphics expert, but if you could send me copies of most of the sprites you use to work off of as a basis I can probably make a few new units, modify the roads a bit, etc. You can send them over to twinge@sluggy.net . A short list of soon-to-be-needed graphic concepts would be good too.

So to sum up: It's nice to see you guys are still working on this project, even if it's going slower than expected I'll have to review some of the models again. It'd be nice if you highlighted changes to them like you did in the manual (that is, if there have even been changes over the past year... might not of been since your focusing more on coding than the abstract concepts (which is good... the good old threads will still be around when we need them again .

EDIT: One more bug I almost forgot to mention. There seems to be some sort of bug involved in clicking on the very bottom squares on the map. Sometimes I can click on them but Usually I can't. I try reclicking and it won't work. The bug is very inconsistant and hard to peg down; It seems to depend, somewhat, on what square you are on before you click the new square. I've only seen the bug on the 3rd scenario but it likely exsists on the others. To sum up: I can move the selected tile anywhere on the map with 1 or at most 2 clicks EXCEPT for the very bottom row, which requires a lot more clicks or sometimes don't select at all. Hard to fix, but fairly important. (Esp on the 3rd Scen, there's a city on the bottom edge that's quite hard to click on

	29-05-2002 03:41									#80
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

EDIT: man there sure are a lot of things that can suddenly pop into a mind =) What if units from 3 or more Civs move on to the same square at the same time?
Also: do units fight when they pass each other or just when the end up on the same square? (For example, 2 opposing units with movements of 4 each go perpendicular to each other. They cross at 2,2 but don't end the move in the same square)


Here's a sample screenshot of the Ugly Color Scheme/Units WIndow Bug:

Attachment: colorbug.jpg
This has been downloaded 37 time(s).

Last edited by Twinge on 29-05-2002 at 03:59

	29-05-2002 04:20									#81
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Messing around some more I rencountered the Can't end a turn bug.
I still can't decipher a trigger, but I copied the end of the info window:

Starting Turn 111, 8450BC

COMBAT Turn 111, 8450BC

Combat in [5, 9] () won by Assouds



Abu Hureyra armies

Attack: 205.0
Defense: 210.0
Health: 10.0
Cost: 7.399999
destroyed



Assoud armies
Attack: 635.0
Defense: 220.0
Health: 10.0 down to 5.2000003


Turn 111, 8450BC complete

-----------------------------------------

Starting Turn 112, 8445BC
COMBAT Turn 112, 8445BC
Combat in [5, 8] () won by Assouds


Abu Hureyra armies
Attack: 205.0
Defense: 210.0
Health: 10.0
Cost: 7.399999
destroyed


Assoud armies

Attack: 635.0 down to 325.0
Defense: 220.0 down to 110.0
Health: 5.2000003 down to 1.3000001


Turn 112, 8445BC complete

-----------------------------------------

Still running last turn, cannot start a new one

Still running last turn, cannot start a new one

Still running last turn, cannot start a new one

Still running last turn, cannot start a new one


This time I was just running through turns of a computer only game on the 3rd scenario. (The first time it was on the 1st Scen with me as the Romans)
There were 2 Civs remaining at this point. The Abu Hureya had 3 Armies and the Assoud had 5.

Hard to go into much detail since I can't think of anything special about the turn prior to the freeze-up.

P.S. sorry for posting so many messages in a row like this, I just keep finding something new or thinkng up something else each time I hit submit

	29-05-2002 06:11									#82
	Support Apolyton

Hi Twinge:

Thanks for all the comments, and especially the willingness to volunteer for a bit! As soon as I post this I will send you the "Clash testbed" that is an executable version of the current code that we are working on for demo 7. It has up-to-date graphics and gameplay features, although there currently is a very nasty bug in one of the scenarios.

The can't-end-turn thing is not informative in and of itself, it just indicates a bug sometime during the turn handling. But thanks for trying. If you are interested in going to just a little bit of extra work, you can get us the stack traces that Will tell us where the bugs are. Here's what you need to do:

Go back to the download page for demo 6 and read the instructions starting with "Attention:" about what to do if the demo bombs. Set yourself up to run with a batch file as indicated. A stack traces of the error will now show up in the DOS window created when the batch file is run. If the stack trace overflows the DOS window, you can modify the batch file so that it runs Clash D. 6 with the "-ef" commandline switch, which tells the program to log errors to a file called error .txt There is more about this in documentation that comes with the Clash testbed.

On something you could do in terms of graphics, unfortunately I am really crushed for time tonight. My suggestion is for you to run the Clash testbed early version of demo 7 and see what is there as graphics. Then you can look at both of the unit graphics and map graphics threads to see what the last request for, and choose what you would like to do from those. IIRC we need is an ancient transport ship, and that's all I can think of off the top of my head. Thanks for being willing to take a shot at this! Please post on what you intend to do in those threads, and we'll take it from there.

I'll add your comments and bugs to the list when I update it, which should be fairly soon (I Hope!).

	29-05-2002 10:16									#83
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: The can't-end-turn thing is not informative in and of itself, it just indicates a bug sometime during the turn handling.

I didn't think it would offer too much help, but I can at least show that the bug exsists and the general area it exsists in. I gave as much info as I could, but it will still be a tough one to find.

Ok cool, I'll check out that version today or tommorow probably.
what's the standard size for your one-square grapics? 32x32?

Another minor bug: The info pane sometimes flashes on the map pane before the turn has fully loaded. It stays until you give the map the focus. Nothing big obviously and it'll probably be gone when you get rid of the info pane. Just thought I'd mention it.

Hmm ok, I ran it with error logging, but It didn't log any events for the inability to end turns I think I can effectively make the bug happen if I just click end turn a whole bunch in a row, although the other times it happened during normal circumstances. It does however log the "Can't click on the bottom row" bug, and I'll post the error here:

Exception occurred during event dispatching:
java.lang.NullPointerException
at game.movement.Direction.nextSquare(Direction.java:336)
at game.movement.Direction.nextSquare(Direction.java:326)
at game.geography.gui.MapCoord.(MapCoord.java:89)
at game.geography.gui.MapPanel.getSquareAt(MapPanel.java:186)
at game.geography.gui.MapPanel.getSquareAt(MapPanel.java:198)
at game.geography.gui.MapFrame.getSquareAt(MapFrame.java:130)
at game.manager.Coordinator.getSquareAt(Coordinator.java:166)
at game.movement.MapInputMode$Normal.leftButton(MapInputMode.java:159)
at game.movement.MapInputMode.leftButton(MapInputMode.java:81)
at game.geography.gui.MapPanel$1.mouseClicked(MapPanel.java:75)
at java.awt.Component.processMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.Component.processEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.Container.processEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.Component.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.retargetMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.processMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.Window.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source)


This will appear in the error file after the 2nd time you try to click a bugged bottom square. Hopefully you can find it from that =) It's a shame the other bug doesn't log... going to be a tough one to find.

	29-05-2002 20:40									#84
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hey Twinge:

quote: Originally posted by Twinge Ok cool, I'll check out that version today or tommorow probably. what's the standard size for your one-square grapics? 32x32?

Best to look at the tiles themselves, since I'm not really up on the graphics end. I could guess, but might do more harm than good... Best to ask this in one of the graphics threads, where you'll hopefully get an answer soon. If not I'll dig in and find out what the specs are for you.

quote: Hmm ok, I ran it with error logging, but It didn't log any events for the inability to end turns I think I can effectively make the bug happen if I just click end turn a whole bunch in a row, although the other times it happened during normal circumstances.

Yeah, pushing it a lot is a problem, but with an easy workaround, "Don't do that!" . But as you say it happens otherwise and those are the tough ones. My guess is we should put some diagnostics in the turnhandler so that when that error popped up, it can tell Which turnhandler the bug happened in. That in combination with what happened in the game just before (first unit built or something similar) could be enough to get somewhere.

Thanks for the stack trace. Probably better would be to see if you can reproduce the error in the D7 testbed. I should have thought of this before, but the code has evolved now quite a bit from D6, so the stack traces from D6 will probably only be really useful half of the time or so.

If you want to go into heavy-duty bug-finding (and we Do need someone to do that, starting soon) its best done from the relatively recent D7 code I sent you. Sorry I wasted a bit of your time lookin' for the D6 traces . They may still be informative too, just have to see.

	25-06-2002 00:25									#85
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I found Clash of Civs just this week. I was just looking thru alt. civs. in apolyton and this one looked like it had the most potential of being a good game. I like the fact that its not going to be another clone.

Where do I find the manual that explains some of the game concepts? I've searched your site and this forum, and still have no idea where i can find it. It would really help, especially with the economy.

I've noticed that if there is no army in a city it cannot be captured-goes both ways comp. and human player.

The economic window is really confusing- I don't know what effect some of the things have. I looked at the computer's economic info (computer vs computer) and they pretty much leave everything the same (20-phalanx, 20 prod. 10 resources) - something like that and they keep growing, so I guess it does'nt have too much effect.

I don't want to go into too much detail since a lot of the things (never-ending turns, no finances for road,..) have already been mentioned before

Keep up the good work!

	25-06-2002 06:53									#86
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by ruskiyparen I found Clash of Civs just this week. I was just looking thru alt. civs. in apolyton and this one looked like it had the most potential of being a good game. I like the fact that its not going to be another clone.

Hi ruskiyparen, glad to hear you think so, we certainly like it that way. Things are Far to inbred in the gaming industry, and misc. game projects too!

quote: Where do I find the manual that explains some of the game concepts? I've searched your site and this forum, and still have no idea where i can find it. It would really help, especially with the economy.

Um, have you read the D6 Manual? It is available on the D6 download page. If you want deeper than the D6 manual, try the model pages on the web sites, and also the more recent discussions.

quote: I've noticed that if there is no army in a city it cannot be captured-goes both ways comp. and human player.

Fascinating, I'd never noticed in D6. Anyway, its fixed now!

quote: The economic window is really confusing- I don't know what effect some of the things have. I looked at the computer's economic info (computer vs computer) and they pretty much leave everything the same (20-phalanx, 20 prod. 10 resources) - something like that and they keep growing, so I guess it does'nt have too much effect.

It does have effects, but as part of our low-micro-management philosophy many orders become inactive automatically when they would be a waste of resources. See the part on ROI in the D6 Manual econ page.

quote: I don't want to go into too much detail since a lot of the things (never-ending turns, no finances for road,..) have already been mentioned before.

A bunch of things have already been fixed, like the no-finances popup. And as you said no point in repeating it...

quote: Keep up the good work!

Thanks!

	25-06-2002 08:10									#87
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quote: the "Can't click on the bottom row" bug

I just found this a few days ago - it was a real cutie, and is now fixed (in D7). It only affected the bottom half of the bottom row!

Cheers.

	26-06-2002 17:04									#88
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Hi Gary:

If possible can you also move the map down a row so that there's a full row of black above? The issue is that unit icons on the top row get cut off. If this is a big effort, then I guess skip it for now.

	27-06-2002 03:27									#89
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Not sure of the implications. After a quick look at the code I fear that trying to do this might have consequences elsewhere. I will bear it in mind.

Cheers