14-12-2001 04:06									#1
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A little poll

Merry Christmass

	14-12-2001 04:13									#2
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The CIA at its best.

	14-12-2001 04:55									#3
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You bet me to it! I was going to start a poll like this when I saw yours, Paiktis.

The video seems genuine but so have other things (like the so-called alien autopsy film) that have turned out to be fake.

If you were going to fake this, how would it be done? I suppose a group of actors filmed in a cave somewhere (area 51?) and their faces digitally altered to look like bin Laden etc. I suppose enough time has elapsed for the CIA to have had the time to do it. That could explain the delay before the video was "discovered".

If it was geniune, who took the video? Why would bin Laden allow his confession to be recorded for others to see? Or was the video camera hidden, in which case, was there a rat among them, waiting to expose them?

Last edited by The Rusty Gamer on 14-12-2001 at 05:35

	14-12-2001 05:00									#4
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This tape was manufactured not by the US, it was manufactured by Bin Laden.

The bad acting shows that.

	14-12-2001 05:11									#5
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The legal consequences of manufacturing such a tape could be quite significant if its a US govt fake, particularly if OBL was brought to trial. Red faces all round.

	14-12-2001 05:32									#6
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*yawn*

yes, it's an evil conspiracy by bush to convince all 5 people who think bin laden is innocent to join up with the happy little bandwagon the rest of the sane world is already on. really, people - no one would go through all that trouble and risk so much just to prove something we (americans anyway) knew for a few months now.

dream up another one...

	14-12-2001 05:40									#7
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1. Osweld
2. MarkG
3. Peacemaker

Who are the other 2 out of the 5???

	14-12-2001 05:43									#8
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I actually voted NO but it is good to have an open mind

	14-12-2001 05:47									#9
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Well, I'm relieved at the results. I was afraid that either we would vote that the US manufactured that tape or that the CIA inadvertently turned it into a banana.

Seriously, why would they fake it? And we sure have enough paranoid commies around here...

	14-12-2001 05:49									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Goingonit Seriously, why would they fake it? And we sure have enough paranoid commies around here...

Mass psychological manipulation

	14-12-2001 05:50									#11
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Banana.

	14-12-2001 05:51									#12
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Banana.

The prudent choice.

	14-12-2001 06:18									#13
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In the director's cut version of the videotape, bin Laden is eating a banana.

	14-12-2001 06:24									#14
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I don't think it was "made up".
As far as the opinions of the people of the United States, nothing requires something being "made up".

I want to ask a question.
Why does Europe whine that the U.S. supplied the Taliban, and then turn around and whine when U.S. troops kick the Taliban's ass?
I don't get it, other than that's just the standard.
Whatever, is wrong. Big deal.

	14-12-2001 06:28									#15
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I want to ask a question. Why does Europe whine that the U.S. supplied the Taliban, and then turn around and whine when U.S. troops kick the Taliban's ass? I don't get it, other than that's just the standard. Whatever, is wrong. Big deal.

1. Because they like to b!tch about the US. (it's true! - there are many reasons INMO some justified, some not))

2. Because they are concerned with human rights

3. Because it is a bargaining tool in the international arena.

	14-12-2001 06:33									#16
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Uh, no.
If someone gripes at you, no matter what you do, how long do you care?
If you say anything other than you don't, I don't believe you.
It's the old "Damned if I do, damned if I don't, so piss on it".
Go ahead, p. Tell me I'm wrong.

	14-12-2001 06:33									#17
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I don't think so

Hollywood is capable of much better work. I like to think George Clooney could play OBL. but he might be too big. Hmm who should play OBL?

	14-12-2001 06:35									#18
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Infatuation.


Joking. I'm ONLY joking.

	14-12-2001 06:36									#19
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Uh, no. If someone gripes at you, no matter what you do, how long do you care? If you say anything other than you don't, I don't believe you. It's the old "Damned if I do, damned if I don't, so piss on it". Go ahead, p. Tell me I'm wrong.

It's all part of being a superpower Slowwhand

	14-12-2001 06:38									#20
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Bah! Humbug!

	14-12-2001 07:43									#22
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Did the tape have the FBI warning at the beginning?

	14-12-2001 07:50									#23
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If it were faked, it would be of better quality and had a lengthy OBL confession sequence.

But I'm sure the kiddies and the reds will swear it's a fake.

	14-12-2001 08:07									#24
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The thing that convinced me that it was real was when he said the US thought a coup was happening on 9/11. Nobody in the US could even dream that up--the thought would require a non-US frame of reference.

I wonder whether those in the Arab world will find some similar shreds of authenticity.

	14-12-2001 08:15									#25
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The thing that convinced me that it was real was when he said the US thought a coup was happening on 9/11

Very funny you should mention that. I had exactly the same though when I was reading the text. It was the one thing that didn't "click".

A coup? What did he mean? (BTW I don't thin it was OBL who said that). A coup against the government? That's not how it happens. I really didn't understand that comment.

BTW the way the "Shayke" (sp?) was saying Praised be Allah every now and then was to me very funny

Those people were the definition of religious fanatics. That's the impression I got from reading the text.

	14-12-2001 09:09									#26
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If you watch closely OBL's hand movements as he is describing the attack and the building's collapse, he not only tells us what he was hoping for (phony or not, i.e., dubbed), his hand movements showing the impact and collapse add even more evidence.

	14-12-2001 09:18									#27
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Don't get me wrong, there was a ton of confusion. But I don't think there was one person out of 280 million in the US who thought there was a coup going on.

Whoever said it, whether OBL or not, doesn't have a clear picture of much with regard to the US. I guess that's why they were so comfortable, in spite of the inevitability that they would have C130 gunships pounding their asses incessantly only a month later. I almost feel sorry for their happy naivete.

	14-12-2001 09:26									#28
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I read very thoroughly the second part of the transcript. All other comments could be understood in the frame of religious fanatism. (visions, omens etc).

"Coup" was really alien.

All in all (if this tape is true) I think that, yes, OBL, ate more than he could chew (if you have that expression). He didn't have a full picture of what was going to follow and might have underestimated the force of the US answer.

But bare in mind that people like Mohamed Ata were studying in western countries and were wealthy. They did have an understanding. But it seems people in AL Qaeda did not, at least fully.

	14-12-2001 13:15									#29
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I don't really know what to make of it. I've only seen part of it yesterday night (after coming home from the pub... ehm... ), but some of the points:

- didn't expect building collapse: after the first WTC attack, you'd expect people to read up on impact of planes on skyscrapers, and collapse does not seem so farfetched. I found that part odd.

- the setup: If you carefully orchestrate appearances where you say "good idea, but it wasn't me", then why would you brag about it AND let yourself be filmed ?

- the sound: very poor quality. I'd like to know how much the supposed speaking fits the lip movement, and I want to see an independent source translation.

"Don't get me wrong, there was a ton of confusion. But I don't think there was one person out of 280 million in the US who thought there was a coup going on."

Odd, I was thinking of a coup. But then, I'm paranoid when it comes to governments and their agencies. However the thinking in terms of coups, just outside of the US... THE CIA!!!

	14-12-2001 13:27									#30
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but what I did get from the tape was they he did expect the buildings to collapse. He just didn't expect them to collapse completely (or nearly completely). Just the floors above the point of impact would collapse.