19-12-2001 01:43									#1
	Is this forum even a good thing? Full PM-box? Change here!

Whenever I look at this site, I get a very polarized group of reactions to Civ3 - on the one hand, there're the still incoming reviews from the game media - all that I have seen are overwhelmingly positive. Yet I look at the forums, particularly this one, and almost all I read about are the faults in the game, and quite often why Civ2 is better. Yes I know there are those who defend the game (sometimes almost obsessively), but the former seem to me the majority. But yet the media and another group of fans _prefer_ Civ3 over Civ2 - in fact the CGW review of Civ3 in Apolyton news suggests it is in fact _Civ2_ that is broken.

I can't claim to know about these fora (correct?) at the times of release of SMAC and the CTPs, but it seems to me that the Apolyton community is more or less in agreement about these games. Almost universal like or dislike.

This makes me think - perhaps as time went by, maybe a patch or two were released, people started to reach a consensus about the games. Will this happen with Civ3? In a few years time will we all be in agreement? And will we do the same thing with Civ4 at its release - have heated debates about why Civ3 is better?

And all this astounds me a little, that such huge differences in opinion exist over this game. I guess this is a function partly of the hype and expectation, but how much is this forum itself to blame? One posts their opinions, perhaps backed up by someone and refuted by someone else... next you know the thread wars are getting vicious and very personal! Certainly there are some informative and downright damn funny threads about weird stuff in and about the game, but how much of this forum is of any point? I personally believe I have lost a lot of faith in the game (and series) from reading these threads, despite 10 years of Civing, and I expect others have too. I hope everyone agrees this outcome is very non-ideal. Maybe this forum is to blame - would we still be so, fanatical, about the game if the forum wasn't here? Would I be in heavenly bliss? Would those who have returned the game in disgust still done so?

I don't want to suggest banning or censoring posts or the number of them that deal with the same subjects, or even the personal attacks, but should we regulate ourselves? Can we do so? What should we have in this forum? Apart from the informative threads, the bug lists and questions, should we really have all this seemingly out of control opinion?

Oops, here come the boss. Well, tell me what you think.

	19-12-2001 01:54									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Check out Code Monkey's reply in dry whine, and drakes Poll, as well: Apolyton Civ3 rankings.

Sort of sets things into perspective.

	19-12-2001 02:05									#3
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Generally, I have found that game forums are bad for my enjoyment of a game- all the negative posts about what's wrong with the game piles up and I find myself noticing everything that's broken and nothing that works.

Then I give up in disgust.

Happened with Black and White. Happened with Tropico.

I was determined not to visit these forums after Civ3 came out. Of course I failed miserably. But a funny thing happened.

I've found, in general, that I disagree with MOST of the issues people are having with the game. Consequently, these forums aren't detracting from my enjoyment, rather I find it amusing to read that a design choice which I find highly enjoyable renders so many upset to the point that they lash out at anyone who comes near.

Net rage indeed.

Not to say that all negative posters lash out. There are quite a few posters with negative views that post thoughtful and cogent arguments. And there are quite a few positive posters that get way out of line as well.

So I keep coming back to these forums, and while you find the occasional useful thread in General, I recommend you spend most of your time in Strategy or Stories.

Just my opinion.

	19-12-2001 02:13									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

If you like civ3 and want to talk with other folks who do, you should visit any of the other civ3 forums at apolyton.

If you want to hear why joe-blow doesn't like civ3, and why he thinks Firaxis ought to be tarred & feathered, stay in the general forum.

Last edited by HalfLotus on 19-12-2001 at 02:19

	19-12-2001 02:13									#5
	Everything I know in Civ3 I learned from Velociryx Suffering from ads?

(less seriously) Maybe that is the true use of the "General" forum - to keep all of this out of the OTHER fora, where you find information you can actually USE. Like the splendiferous Velociryx's strat guides, for example.

	19-12-2001 03:23									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Doesn't happen very often, but the kind words above have left me....well....speechless.

What can I say except thank you!?

-=Vel=-
(getting ready to head home, and suddenly even more anxious than normal to see what new ideas might be verging on floating to the surface)

	19-12-2001 03:43									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

my theory is the more people whine about civ3, the more they like and play it. They are ashamed they are liking such a simple game so much, so they pretend not to like it.

	19-12-2001 03:57									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Like most things in this world the idea of forums was a good thing when it started. Now though it is usually a place to troll or flame. Occasionally you get honest posts but most of the time it just degenerates into flame wars . Some forums have even closed because of the overwhelming negativity ( Everquest Forums ) Its kinda like cyber road rage , since your anonymous you can get away with saying whatever you feel like regardless of taste or content.

Last edited by Brakner on 19-12-2001 at 04:08

	19-12-2001 04:12									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

HalfLotus, that is well put. That is not what the forums are for, but it is what they have become. Are there any examples of fora for games with a fan base that _DO_ work the way intended? Perhaps if enough people get the idea, we could try whatever model they use to, well, keep discussions relevant. Agreements, disagreements, fine, but the single most irritating thing here is wading through the attacks. We all have every right to speak our mind, but isn't it just wasting time to poke each other with sharp, verbal sticks? I don't know what some people get out of it.

Not to mention what it must make Firaxis etc. think of us! Why even bother addressing our concerns if we can't even treat our fellow fans with a little politeness? They've released the game and a patch, are they "obliged" to do any more for us? Probably not much. So the only way to get issues with the game seen to is to ask nicely, and to show we want and would appreciate changes. Not to demand them for satisfaction. And once some changes ARE made, not to DEMAND more changes or respond by saying that what WAS changed was all that was good about the game.

Oh, and Vel, you're welcome. But your writs ARE that damn good. You ARE The Game.

	19-12-2001 04:33									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Then I shall keep my fingers and toes crossed in hopes you REALLY enjoy the mod I'm proposing a few threads from here!

-=Vel=-

	19-12-2001 04:40									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I liked the Baldur's gate forums. I found them useful. A bit repetitive, but I could usually find the answer to my question.