19-01-2002 03:46									#151
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse The funniest part is both Floyd and Higgs strike me as the kind of young guys who would start out full of lip and end worshipping the ground on which their Drill Sergeant walked. And that's the way it should be

It's the process of molding boys into soldiers.

	19-01-2002 03:57									#152
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I think its very hard not to end up respecting and admiring your drill sergeant if he's any good at all.

They are the soldier's soldier. The recruits have no idea how much pressure the drill sergeant is under to meet that standard every day.

	19-01-2002 04:06									#153
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat It's the process of molding boys into soldiers.

I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

	19-01-2002 04:07									#154
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I have a lot of respect for the armed forces in general... it's something that I could not do, however. I'm too much of a baby. Take my MTV away and I become a pile of babbling mush.

	19-01-2002 04:07									#155
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maybe that is the way the army use to be

according to info from my brother and his (soon to be ex) wife (they started last Jan/Feb)

basic training is pretty much a cake walk and drill sargeant can't touch you

his wife even had her drill sargeant throw her grenades because she was scared to

which she was going to be assigned overseas for a few months (after the sept 11 attacks) she complained until she no longer had to

my brother (who had basic training in georgia) said his was a little tougher but still cake

he said all the rest but him and a couple of other guys were complete wusses

he was fine in basic training

got worried about his past (a bunch of stuff the military already knew about) and listened to some bad advice and ran

showed back up an hour before he would have been listed as a deserter (30 days)

he has some complaints now about the army (he got out of it) but he liked basic

Jon Miller

	19-01-2002 04:30									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

It can save your life. Better than the old days, when you just threw boys into uniform, and those who survived learned the trade in the battlefield.

There's a saying that the more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in combat.

And before we go there, yes, the world would be a much nicer place if we were all considerate and touchy-feely, but that ain't the way it is.

	19-01-2002 04:31									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller maybe that is the way the army use to be according to info from my brother and his (soon to be ex) wife (they started last Jan/Feb) basic training is pretty much a cake walk and drill sargeant can't touch you his wife even had her drill sargeant throw her grenades because she was scared to which she was going to be assigned overseas for a few months (after the sept 11 attacks) she complained until she no longer had to my brother (who had basic training in georgia) said his was a little tougher but still cake he said all the rest but him and a couple of other guys were complete wusses he was fine in basic training got worried about his past (a bunch of stuff the military already knew about) and listened to some bad advice and ran showed back up an hour before he would have been listed as a deserter (30 days) he has some complaints now about the army (he got out of it) but he liked basic Jon Miller

I don't consider this current "Army of One" horseshit to be a real army. What little first hand stuff I've seen and heard lately makes me cringe. It also serves these people extremely poorly if they ever do have to go into real combat.

	19-01-2002 04:37									#158
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat There's a saying that the more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in combat.

There's a better saying: The less combat you see, the less you bleed in combat.

	19-01-2002 04:39									#159
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Before people start getting annoyed, I'd like to point out I'm very grateful to all the brave men who ever served in the armed forces for fighting and often dying to save the free world.
Its just not my thing.

	19-01-2002 04:58									#160
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Hey Floyd and Higgs, I'm sure those instructors have never dealt with any kids like you guys before. Boy are they in for a surprise!

No offense but I'm not sure if your martial arts instructors have mentally prepared you well enough, there seems to be a false sense of confidence and you guys are trying to prove something. Vale Tudo is awesome but there are alot of other bad karate instructors out there who do more harm than good. While you're winding up for a roundhouse, some thug with no training can just come in with a shoulder tackle and put an end to your kata. If you're in it for what belt you can wear I'm not sure that's the best reason.

Even the Gracies are very modest about their fighting abilities. Though they accept a challenge any place, any time, they know their limits.

Aside from skills, don't forget that most 37 year olds will have a huge strength advantage over a teen and are better mentally prepared.

I've never been in the military, but the Devil Dogs I know all tell me that their legs get weak any time they even see their former drill instructor. And this is like years after they were out of basic. And these aren't just the lowly toliet-scrubber Marines either, these guys are big dudes who work out so much their bodies are warped into some kindof shape I don't even see body builders with. I think it's all the pullups that make their backs stick out like that. Most of them say they calmed down alot after getting into a few fights. (Usually getting decked by their instructor).

I have much respect for our soldiers, and even though alot of them become sort of desensitised (sort of a side effect of being in that environment I guess), I often regret not going through the training and serving my country myself.

	19-01-2002 05:06									#161
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I do not have any respect for the same military that will not let me join.

	19-01-2002 05:18									#162
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quote: Originally posted by Evan von Christoph I do not have any respect for the same military that will not let me join.

I can understand that.

	19-01-2002 06:02									#163
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I have respect for those who protect us. I do not have to agree with the policies of the military in order to show this respect, and I have written many people on the subject of gays in the military.

	19-01-2002 06:20									#164
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Hmmm. To get the thread back even close to on topic, I think EvC and PF are having a fight. Either that or PF is just a DL of EvC and he is trying to make us think they aren't DLs by staging a fight. Or maybe, EvC is the DL and PF (who seems fairly reasonable) is the real poster, and EvC (who is really PF) is staging this whole comeback as a way to allow him to "come out of the closet" and start posting as PF. That's it! .... or maybe it isn't.

	19-01-2002 06:23									#165
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It isn't, but we aren't fighting either... we just happen to have differing opinions. I can't tell you how many times we have had political discussions over dinner.

	19-01-2002 06:54									#166
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But are you PF? Or EvC pretending to be PF? Or PF pretending to be EvC pretending to be PF?!?!?!?!?

	19-01-2002 06:55									#167
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I wasn't even ****ing thinking about the gay thing. The military won't let me in because of my psychological profile.

	19-01-2002 07:55									#168
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Plus, very likey, you have taking brain chemistry medicince such as anti depresives, ritalin, etc, after the age of twelve, another medical disquilification. They won't even let into the Coast Guard if you have taken smufing ritalin when you were 12 years and day old.

	19-01-2002 08:43									#169
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Chris-

quote: They are better. You wouldn't stand a chance, and you would never get the first shot, I can promise you that, so drop the swagger, it ain't cutting any ice.

First off, I'm not vain enough to assume I can drop any DI there is. I AM confident enough to assume that if a DI gets in my face, and if I choose to take a first strike option (most likely a knee to the groin area followed by either knee strikes to the head or a JKD-style straight blast), the odds get close to even. I'm certainly not good enough to take the average DI, with his usual hand-to-hand training ability and such, in a straight-up "fair" fight. But fights usually aren't fair.

And the above statement I'll just use to address everyone who said something along the lines of "I'd get my ass kicked". My answer, summed up, probably, unless I can even the odds.

AH,

quote: The funniest part is both Floyd and Higgs strike me as the kind of young guys who would start out full of lip and end worshipping the ground on which their Drill Sergeant walked.

Actually, I think that the military would be a valuable learning experience for me, and I would end up better off for it. So in a sense, you could very well be correct.
Unfortunately, I can't, in good conscience, put myself in a position where I might be ordered to undertake a mission I have a fundamental disagreement with. Don't mistake that with cowardice, though, I'm all for joining the military if you feel you can accept orders you disagree with - I just know that I can't.

MtG,

quote: I've never passed out from laughing yet, so you're just SOL, old chap.

Actually, I'd agree with you there...you're not the sort I'd want to **** with, given any choice

quote: The last brown-belt I got in a fight with I knocked out in less than three seconds. He did land a couple of decent blows that raised pretty good welts, but that wasn't much compensation for being flat on the ground, temporarily paralyzed, and going wide-eyed as he lost his airway, then consciousness. He was OK, though, because it was just a "demonstration." In a "real" fight, I would have finished the job, if there'd been any particular reason too. It was up to me, though, because there sure as hell wasn't anything *he* was going to do about it.

No offense MattHiggs, by the way.
But, I agree with you, brown belts - or really any belt other than high level black belt, are not serious opponents in a real fight. At least not from traditional martial arts. In fact, the other day, at my university I had the opportunity to spar a Judo black belt, whom I kicked the **** out of.
That isn't to say that traditional martial arts aren't good - they just aren't, by themselves, fight-realistic, in general. Mix them with something such as boxing, kickboxing, ValeTudo, or even Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and you have a very effective fighting style.

I would, though be interested in knowing more about what sort of fighting style you use, if any, and what the circumstances were of your fight with the brown belt. Also, what's your opinion on arts (well, really sciences, not arts at all) such as Muay Thai and Valetudo?

quote: Oh, and by the way, if you were in the Army and you ever hit a DI, you'd be looking at years of hell. Leavenworth will break the attitude of anyone. Simply running your mouth will also get you in more **** than you can even imagine exists in the universe - they *will* break you of it, one way or another.

Yes, I fully realize that. Some things are more important than staying out of prison, though - and I could not in good conscience submit to a draft without a legal and physical fight.

Ted,

quote: No offense but I'm not sure if your martial arts instructors have mentally prepared you well enough, there seems to be a false sense of confidence and you guys are trying to prove something. Vale Tudo is awesome but there are alot of other bad karate instructors out there who do more harm than good. While you're winding up for a roundhouse, some thug with no training can just come in with a shoulder tackle and put an end to your kata. If you're in it for what belt you can wear I'm not sure that's the best reason.

Fully agreed. Kicking high and using roundhouses are both mistakes - not combat realistic at all. Vale Tudo, by the way, is not a form of Karate. Sorry if you already know that, your post was just phrased such that it seemed as though you were grouping the two together. Vale Tudo is more of a no holds barred fighting style, not an art at all, no kata or rigid self defense techniques.

quote: Even the Gracies are very modest about their fighting abilities. Though they accept a challenge any place, any time, they know their limits.

But in their defense, if Royce or Royler Gracie, for example, were to fight a DI, they'd wipe the floor with the DI, IMHO.

quote: Aside from skills, don't forget that most 37 year olds will have a huge strength advantage over a teen and are better mentally prepared.

Strength is actually rather irrelevant, I think MtG will back me up on that one. Leverage is what counts most, if you are going to fight your opponent on the ground (where most fights end up), and on your feet, I've seen small Thai Boxers whip the **** out of people with 50 pound weight advantages. I'm only 5'11", 165 lbs, and work out (and beat) with people who have huge weight/strength advantages.

And, by the way, I've actually fought (well, OK, sparred, but with basically no rules except for basic safety stuff) Marines, and I've won each time. Last Marine I fought I pulled into my guard, locked him up, and heel kicked him until he tapped.

	19-01-2002 09:24									#170
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How the hell can they make your life a misery? I wouldn't need an authority to run to. I could pretty easily handle myself in any situation them brainless monkies could put me in.

Woooo they can shout loud and try and bully you into doing stuff, that kinda stuff doesn't work on me.

At high school the last person who tried to fight with me ended up with two shattered front teeth, a broken wrist and two fractured lower ribs. I was about 50 kilos and built like a rake then.

	19-01-2002 09:29									#171
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So I take it you're a top, Matty?

	19-01-2002 09:31									#172
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No it's just I don't let anyone push me around. Which is why I wouldn't join the army. Maybe it's my lack of respect for authrority or some other cliched phrase.

	19-01-2002 09:32									#173
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Just out of curiosity, which helped you more in that fight, kickboxing or karate?

	19-01-2002 09:33									#174
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Schoolyard fights are always fun. The people involved tend to be laughed at for their stupidity behind their backs. I mean, really: Brawls over stuff in school?

	19-01-2002 09:34									#175
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Kick Boxing, without doubt. But karate teaches you really good discipline and control.

But I wasn't really using those styles to fight, not much anyway. You get into a fight and adrenaline takes over.

	19-01-2002 09:34									#176
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It wasn't in school actually it was when I was walking home.

	19-01-2002 09:35									#177
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That makes all the difference, then.

	19-01-2002 09:36									#178
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Anyhow, I was like 13... and in our school people didn't act like that at all. Maybe you hung out with the geeks

	19-01-2002 09:36									#179
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quote: But I wasn't really using those styles to fight, not much anyway. You get into a fight and adrenaline takes over.

Yeah, that's true, although if you train enough "muscle memory" takes over, as well - last fight I got in, guy came after me who was much bigger, and I ended up choking him out in a relatively simple Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu move.

	19-01-2002 09:38									#180
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quote: Originally posted by MattHiggs Anyhow, I was like 13... and in our school people didn't act like that at all. Maybe you hung out with the geeks

The vast majority of the people I hung out with are upgrading marks since they couldn't get into university. Figure that one out.