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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by MattHiggs
How the hell can they make your life a misery? I wouldn't need an authority to run to. I could pretty easily handle myself in any situation them brainless monkies could put me in. |
How wrong you are, my clueless friend.
First off, if by some miracle you beat one, you would be striking a superior, a charge that carries a 20 year sentance in a military prison, or death in wartime.
Second Matt, your not that tough, no matter what you think.
There are always tougher people, and they have numbers.
Let's assume you are Arnold jr (as you keep saying  ) and could whip 3 or 4 guys.
OK, if they couldn't subdue you, they would just put a bullet in your brain.
Far fetched?
Dream on.
Also, do you know what it is like to be up for 96 straight hours?
That is a favored punishment, they will keep waking you, "superman".
Get sent to a military prison (And if your in the military, forget civilain courts and protections, they don't exisit for you), you will be beaten dailey, and forced into hard labor.
You see Higssy, they have known how to deal with malcontents since the beginging, quite frankly, you would be a pimple on their ass, and they would pop you easy.
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Woooo they can shout loud and try and bully you into doing stuff, that kinda stuff doesn't work on me. |
Their option is prison, your kidding yourself here.
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At high school the last person who tried to fight with me ended up with two shattered front teeth, a broken wrist and two fractured lower ribs. I was about 50 kilos and built like a rake then. |
Meaningless, believe me.
In fact. when I was a bouncer, which helped pay my way through college, BTW, I met your kind all the time.
They are still paying medical bills, and that was over a decade ago, so stow this "superman" stuff, you ain't this tough.
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No it's just I don't let anyone push me around. Which is why I wouldn't join the army. Maybe it's my lack of respect for authrority or some other cliched phrase. |
Matt, it's not about intimidation or standing up for yourself, the armed forces want that in you.
They also want you to be a team player, and to react in a crisis, not debate about it.
You see, your attitude is similar to mine at 17, I joined as a family obligation, but in the end, I saw a larger world, and that the "me first" attitude you and some others show is bull-sh1t, just really a kid's attitude.
Maybe you will get past it, maybe not.
It's your life, do what you like.
But believe me, what you said here doen't fly.
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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
Does "some others" mean me, Chris?  |
Only if you want it to, david.
Both you and Higgsy show promise, your both intelligent and show potential, but a "me first, f*ck the world" attitude will only lead to disaster later in life, I can promise you this.
I have seen dudes my whole life who are self proclaimed "tough guys".
I wouldn't give a hoot in hell the whole bunch.
In the USA and Britain, nobody makes you join a military outfit, and if you don't want to, that's your buisiness.
But the brainless attacks about it show a depth of intense ignorence.
I knew many a bumb bastard in the old days, but most were regular guys, doing a job that needs doing.
People today watch movies like Full Metal Jacket and think things are that way, but sorry, the world isn't a Kubrik movie.
Army training is (or was, 22 years ago) done by professionals in a professional manner, Marine Corp is a bunch of sea-going bellhops, so it's no surprise you whipped some, my sainted Grandma could kick their sorry asses, god rest her soul.
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
First off, I'm not vain enough to assume I can drop any DI there is. I AM confident enough to assume that if a DI gets in my face, and if I choose to take a first strike option (most likely a knee to the groin area followed by either knee strikes to the head or a JKD-style straight blast), the odds get close to even. I'm certainly not good enough to take the average DI, with his usual hand-to-hand training ability and such, in a straight-up "fair" fight. But fights usually aren't fair.
And the above statement I'll just use to address everyone who said something along the lines of "I'd get my ass kicked". My answer, summed up, probably, unless I can even the odds. |
Assuming you wanted to try that, (10-20 in Leavenworth discourages most people) do you honestly think that 30 or so year old full time professionals aren't prepared for someone to try and have a go at them?
You've got the dual problem of dealing with a professional who is selected for the job by professionals, and an institution that is stacked 100% in their favor. The basic point is that you will be transformed from an individualist to a team player.
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Unfortunately, I can't, in good conscience, put myself in a position where I might be ordered to undertake a mission I have a fundamental disagreement with. |
So what do you plan to do for a living? What you're describing is pretty fundamental to having almost any job.
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Actually, I'd agree with you there...you're not the sort I'd want to **** with, given any choice  |
I make a point of not starting things for no good reason, and usually, trouble doesn't make a point of walking up to me, either.
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But, I agree with you, brown belts - or really any belt other than high level black belt, are not serious opponents in a real fight. At least not from traditional martial arts. In fact, the other day, at my university I had the opportunity to spar a Judo black belt, whom I kicked the **** out of.
That isn't to say that traditional martial arts aren't good - they just aren't, by themselves, fight-realistic, in general. Mix them with something such as boxing, kickboxing, ValeTudo, or even Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and you have a very effective fighting style. |
There's a big difference in people who've trained for competition, and people who also train for fighting. And a much bigger difference if you run into anyone from the belt factory set - they're just so much BS it's sad, especially when they don't know it and they're getting ripped off.
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I would, though be interested in knowing more about what sort of fighting style you use, if any, |
I've studied/played around with lots of different styles, but primarily Kajukenbo system, which is a purely street-fighting style developed in Hawaii in the late 1940's. Currently, I'm just a ****ing pussycat.
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and what the circumstances were of your fight with the brown belt. |
He was a buddy of mine (even after the fight). We were having a discussion on the practical vs. theoretical virtues of martial arts styles vs. simple mean-assed street fighting. Said discussion culminated in an impromptu demonstration.
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Also, what's your opinion on arts (well, really sciences, not arts at all) such as Muay Thai and Valetudo? |
I don't really have an opinion on any style - what is far more important is the situational awareness, opportunism, self-discipline, attitude and dedication to training of the student/fighter. In my adult life, I've avoided/defused far more fights than I've ever gotten in - and that's the point. It doesn't matter how bad you are, if three of the guy's buddies show up with a .45 and a couple of sawed off shotguns. There's always something or someone badder than any of us, so going the balls out route is usually pretty stupid unless you have no real choice.
One of the best guys I know for that is real low key, friendly, always smiling and joking around, but I can tell if he comes within 50 feet of me from behind - you can just feel the lethality, and literally, nobody ever messes with this guy - one look his direction, and you *know* not to.
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Strength is actually rather irrelevant, I think MtG will back me up on that one. |
If the strength comes with a compromise in coordination and speed, yes, but all other things being equal, it helps. I can take some little 200-pounder and literally pick him up and throw his ass across a decent-size room. My brown-belt buddy weighed in at about 145, I weigh in about 270, and I lifted him off the ground, spun him and threw him over me with one hand. I was a little sore afterwards, but nowhere near as bad off as he was.
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Leverage is what counts most, if you are going to fight your opponent on the ground (where most fights end up), |
Leverage affects whether someone will take you to the ground, but strength and balance fit in the mix. Really, all you're doing with leverage is applying some area where you're strong against an area where your opponent is weak - it doesn't matter how much you can bench press, there are simply ways your arms aren't designed to move, and most people tend to cooperate in lieu of having an elbow or shoulder torn out. But again, it's all balancing different strengths and weaknesses, and it takes a lot of training to be able to reliably get control over someone stronger - if the training levels are similar, the physically weaker guy is at a disadvantage, and sure as hell can't afford to make any mistakes.
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and on your feet, I've seen small Thai Boxers whip the **** out of people with 50 pound weight advantages. I'm only 5'11", 165 lbs, and work out (and beat) with people who have huge weight/strength advantages. |
One of the best fighters I ever met was a woman who was 5'-4" and 105 lbs. She could whip anyone I ever saw, and was a great teacher.
quote:
And, by the way, I've actually fought (well, OK, sparred, but with basically no rules except for basic safety stuff) Marines, and I've won each time. Last Marine I fought I pulled into my guard, locked him up, and heel kicked him until he tapped. |
Hell, boy, come on down this way, and we can stack jarhead ass every Saturday night in up in La Zona Norte.  Seriously, though, people trained to kill in combat (and it depends on what these specific samples of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children do, if they're clerks or mechanics, it's a bit different from a force recon Marine) aren't really trained to spar around.
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devilmunchkin
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first circle of the inferno
Jul 2001
time: 05:17
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apparently he's just recovering old wounds. i wrote a salutation but he was to caught up in the whirl wind to notice.
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Immortal Wombat
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in perpetuity
Dec 2000
time: 05:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris 62
How wrong you are, my clueless friend.
First off, if by some miracle you beat one, you would be striking a superior, a charge that carries a 20 year sentance in a military prison, or death in wartime.
Second Matt, your not that tough, no matter what you think.
There are always tougher people, and they have numbers.
Let's assume you are Arnold jr (as you keep saying ) and could whip 3 or 4 guys.
OK, if they couldn't subdue you, they would just put a bullet in your brain.
Far fetched?
Dream on.
Also, do you know what it is like to be up for 96 straight hours?
That is a favored punishment, they will keep waking you, "superman".
Get sent to a military prison (And if your in the military, forget civilain courts and protections, they don't exisit for you), you will be beaten dailey, and forced into hard labor.
You see Higssy, they have known how to deal with malcontents since the beginging, quite frankly, you would be a pimple on their ass, and they would pop you easy.
Their option is prison, your kidding yourself here.
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Gotta love America.
USA! USA!
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:17
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Chris,
quote:
Both you and Higgsy show promise, your both intelligent and show potential, but a "me first, f*ck the world" attitude will only lead to disaster later in life, I can promise you this. |
Actually, that's a mischaracterization of myself, at least. I do not have a "me first, **** the world" attitude. I'm actually very non-selfcentered in lots of ways. The thing is, though, that I do feel that the concept of rights are more important, that the government has no right to stick me into the military against my will. This is not a selfish attitude, as I view selfishness. This is simply a political viewpoint, one that I'm willing to back up.
quote:
In the USA and Britain, nobody makes you join a military outfit, and if you don't want to, that's your buisiness. |
My premise for these discussions is WHAT IF a draft was instituted.
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But the brainless attacks about it show a depth of intense ignorence. |
Actually I don't recall attacking the institution of the military itself, I recall attacking things such as the draft and the use of the military for purposes I disagree with.
MtG,
quote:
Assuming you wanted to try that, (10-20 in Leavenworth discourages most people) do you honestly think that 30 or so year old full time professionals aren't prepared for someone to try and have a go at them?
You've got the dual problem of dealing with a professional who is selected for the job by professionals, and an institution that is stacked 100% in their favor. The basic point is that you will be transformed from an individualist to a team player. |
I'm sure they are ready for someone to have a go at them - but honestly, how much do you REALLY think that happens on the first day of Basic? Probably not that much, although I don't really know.
And I underdstand what you're saying about the consequences, etc., but my point is that if I was drafted, and actually caught (although I doubt I would be) I'd really cease to care.
quote:
So what do you plan to do for a living? What you're describing is pretty fundamental to having almost any job. |
Not necessarily, and there's a big difference between being ordered to go fight in someone else's civil war, and some normal everyday thing at another job, although I will admit lawyers skirt the edge
quote:
There's a big difference in people who've trained for competition, and people who also train for fighting. And a much bigger difference if you run into anyone from the belt factory set - they're just so much BS it's sad, especially when they don't know it and they're getting ripped off. |
I totally agree - it's so funny, they like to talk big about their 2nd degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and really, it's like well whoopdishit, you can kick high
quote:
I've studied/played around with lots of different styles, but primarily Kajukenbo system, which is a purely street-fighting style developed in Hawaii in the late 1940's. Currently, I'm just a ****ing pussycat. |
Not heard of that style, actually. And I'm sure you're not a pussycat, just being modest
quote:
If the strength comes with a compromise in coordination and speed, yes, but all other things being equal, it helps. I can take some little 200-pounder and literally pick him up and throw his ass across a decent-size room. My brown-belt buddy weighed in at about 145, I weigh in about 270, and I lifted him off the ground, spun him and threw him over me with one hand. I was a little sore afterwards, but nowhere near as bad off as he was. |
Sure, strength does help, but I don't think it's most important.
What you did to that guy is certainly pretty cool, but it might be a bit harder to pull off against a good grappler (not against me, though, hell I'm only 160 you'd probably break me in half if we were doing a fight demo or whatever - I could probably take that brown belt though :lol
quote:
Leverage affects whether someone will take you to the ground, but strength and balance fit in the mix. Really, all you're doing with leverage is applying some area where you're strong against an area where your opponent is weak - it doesn't matter how much you can bench press, there are simply ways your arms aren't designed to move, and most people tend to cooperate in lieu of having an elbow or shoulder torn out. But again, it's all balancing different strengths and weaknesses, and it takes a lot of training to be able to reliably get control over someone stronger - if the training levels are similar, the physically weaker guy is at a disadvantage, and sure as hell can't afford to make any mistakes. |
Yes, if training levels are similar, both people are trained in the same art, and one person is heavier, the heavier person has the advantage. However, if a small grappler is fighting a big striker, the small grappler is probably going to win, simply because he understands how to use leverage, especially on the ground, while the striker generally does not.
The other element is, once a fight is on the ground, if a guy significantly stronger is on his back, with a weaker guy on top in some fashion, the strong guy is emphatically NOT going to be able to just lift the small guy off - it doesn't work that way, and if he tries he'll probably get armbarred.
quote:
Hell, boy, come on down this way, and we can stack jarhead ass every Saturday night in up in La Zona Norte. Seriously, though, people trained to kill in combat (and it depends on what these specific samples of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children do, if they're clerks or mechanics, it's a bit different from a force recon Marine) aren't really trained to spar around. |
 Maybe someday, hehe.
Yes, I understand most people trained to kill aren't trained to spar, but how many soldiers are well-trained in how to kill someone in hand-to-hand combat in a couple of seconds? Not that many I'd assume.
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Seeker
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London Ontario
Jan 1970
time: 00:17
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LOL what's that smell? Rutting season for all the stags?
That said... I think all this nonsense about 'technique' in fighting is just nonsense that the fighters try to believe for psychological reasons.
My cousin Luke did 4 years for agg. assault. He said a lotta guys do nothing BUT train and fight in that world. Viciously. He saw 400 lb + guys break supposedly 'armoured' bulletproof glass. Nobody is invincible. You can be fast, strong, tough, and have absolutely no hesitation. There's always going to be someone faster, stronger, tougher, and with even less hesitation than you.
Also: Total security is a dream. I've known men who have lived in the bush, devoting their lives to rendering their property as impregnable as possible, mines, bombs, claymores, hidden bunkers, the whole thing. It's a dream. Security is a state of mind.
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20-01-2002 05:04
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