17-01-2002 08:44									#31
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free condoms would make things worse. The stupid, ignorant people wouldn't use them. And the average and smart people wouldn't reproduce as fast as the stupid people.

Condoms = bad. just kidding of course

condoms + education = good.

	17-01-2002 08:47									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident free condoms would make things worse. The stupid, ignorant people wouldn't use them. And the average and smart people wouldn't reproduce as fast as the stupid people.

That is what is happening already. I think monitary incentives to get sterilized could help things though.

	17-01-2002 08:52									#33
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I think that would be insulting and not accepted. Although with enough monetary incentive that could work. We'd have to offer more money than the Jerry Springer show offers though

	17-01-2002 08:57									#34
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Blame the liberals for destroying the gene-pool. Otherwise there would be nobody to vote for them.

	17-01-2002 08:57									#35
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Well the next question is what qualities we would need to eliminate and what qualities we want to promote. Even this is shady since even people who are obviously handicapped (Stephen Hawking, Pres. Bush ) are able to advance knowledge.

Intelligence also is not a one shot deal. There is no real way to measure overall intelgience. A person who can barely do algebra but may have enough common sense to run a country . Just what exactly are good qualities in a person and how do we isolate them?

Another point about how unfeasable eugenics is, is if we have a bunch of muscular Nobel prize winners running around who's going to be the garbage man?

	17-01-2002 09:00									#36
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Look at the title of this thread. The dead computer geek's death in this case is a compliment!

	17-01-2002 09:01									#37
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I think we can all agree that all people who go on talk shows like Jerry Springer and Jenny Jones can be sterilized and never allowed to reproduce

	17-01-2002 09:01									#38
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quote: Originally posted by ThePantaloonDog Another point about how unfeasable eugenics is, is if we have a bunch of muscular Nobel prize winners running around who's going to be the garbage man?

We could make garbage robots then.

	17-01-2002 09:04									#39
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quote: Originally posted by ThePantaloonDog Intelligence also is not a one shot deal. There is no real way to measure overall intelgience. A person who can barely do algebra but may have enough common sense to run a country . Just what exactly are good qualities in a person and how do we isolate them?

Instead of saying it cant be decided we should talk about it and make a positive decision. Once we advance gene tech we will have the answers anyway.

	17-01-2002 09:08									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Thats not true actually. The US and many european counries had eugenics programs going long before hitler came to power. If it wasnt for Hitlers abuse of eugenics it would probably still be in practice today.

It is this abuse which makes eugenics such a dangerous tool.

quote: The fact is that some people are intrinsically better or worse than others. Just as in the plant and animal kingdom, because after all, we are just glorified monkeys.

We must define better. "more able to survive in the wild"? I'd agree with you. "more deserving to pass on their genetic material"? No way. Excepting gene therapy by specific request of the person involved, any changing of genetic materials is by no means good. I would much rather have weak and stupid people than a government or other agency than could decide whether or not my genetic material was suitable to pass on.

	17-01-2002 09:25									#41
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Did it ever occur to any of you that natural selection is already doing its job? Human beings get their edge from their brains. A human alone and without training doesn't have much pf an edge over other animals. Gather a whole bunch of these brains together and voila, you get a culture. Humans living within a culture clearly have a huge advantage over other species. Among humans natural selection should logically favor those who can thrive in a group setting.

	17-01-2002 09:26									#42
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umm...ya but the moron's and lazy people are creating more offspring then the rest of us.

	17-01-2002 09:34									#43
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but Dr Strangelove, in order for evolution to work, the "inferior" must either die or leave less offspring (usually both).

That's not what's happening in today's world.

(Not that I'm for the resuming of evolution in today's human society. That would be a horrible idea.)

	17-01-2002 09:43									#44
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yes but that would mean we would remain humans for the next 10 billion years (not that i really care)


Arent we supposed to be progressing to the Utopian Master-Race


Also, wouldnt other species catch up to us?

	17-01-2002 09:46									#45
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no....

in a few centuries at the most, genetic engineering will be so widespread that the gene pool is being artificially improved.


On the other hand, we could all go boom in a Nuclear War. The post-apocalyptic human beings (or mutants thereof) will live in a fully evolutionary environment, with all the evolutionary elements like lots of mutation, predators, lack of food, diseases etc present.

	17-01-2002 09:50									#46
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the most serious problem we will face in the future is penises. We will continue engineering bigger and bigger penises until men's penises drag the ground. This would have less than desirable effects in olympic sports and many everyday routines. It would also hurt if you walked over a cactus.

	17-01-2002 09:50									#47
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I heard humans would never survive a post-full-blown-nuclear war. Sure, there would be survivors.....but the nuclear winter, which in theory, can last hundreds of years would likely kill any survivors.

And does anybody know what the scientists say would survive? I do, but I want to see what you all say

	17-01-2002 09:54									#48
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Well, during the last Apocalyptic Event (the extinction of the dinosaurs), basically any animal larger than 30cm (a foot) disappeared.

	17-01-2002 09:55									#49
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Cockroaches. And tax collectors. Yes. Cockroaches and the Tax Man.

	17-01-2002 10:01									#50
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Yin is right. on land Mammal's would cease to exist. And Roaches would be the only survivors. Would they evolve into supersmart-roaches? I dont know.....

Why Roaches? Because of there short life span and small dietary needs.

	17-01-2002 10:24									#51
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I'd say that mice would survive too.
Same reasons.

So mammals won't totally die out.

	17-01-2002 10:38									#52
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I think I also read that cockroaches don't die if you put them in the microwave and try to cook them. Anybody know if this is true or not? Anybody care to do some quick Net research? Home research?

	17-01-2002 10:39									#53
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How Mice would die after 20-30 years... Roaches on the other hand, would just make more of themselves to die and eat...

	17-01-2002 11:20									#54
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A roach can live for a month with its head cut off. It eventually dies of dehydration, since it can't drink without a head.

Yin, I wouldn't be at all surprised if a roach could survive being microwaved.

BTW, how do you folks go about meeting so many weak and stupid people? Pretty much everybody I deal with on a day to day basis is strong, intelligent, or both. Am I hanging out in the wrong bars or something?

	17-01-2002 11:30									#55
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by the way I was serious about my post about men's penises. When am I not? this is one of many issues that will arrive with genetic manipulation and engineering of humans. Blonde hair, blue eyes- you name it. Big breasts for women- no one under 6 feet tall. When will it end? How will people choose mates when this happens? Everyone will look similar (not the same since people have different tastes- but most people fit in 2 or 3 categories). Personalties will be genetically engineered as well. Although personality can change with upbringing and environment.

Not for me to worry. Not likely to happen in my lifetime- hopefully. I have a hard enough time getting women- I don't want to compete with 6 foot 4 inch blonde haired, blue eyed men with 20 inch penises.

	17-01-2002 11:39									#56
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Funny you mention that. I remember hearing from some anthropologists that they think the reason the average black person's penis is longer than the average white person's penis is that in Africa where men run around exposed, the women were free to choose 'healthy' mates, and penis size seemed to be a good indicator of health. I have no idea if there's any correlation.

This is the same way 'beautiful' people are selected as mates: Some outward sign of health. You don't want to marry a particularly ugly person because ugly and unheathy often run together. What's interesting here is how changing cultural values affect the equation. Plump women, for example, used to be considered a far better mate than a thin women. In part I suppose this represented the brutual realities of childbearing and more labor intensive chores of bygone eras. A thin woman wouldn't cut it, so thin became not as beautiful.

	17-01-2002 11:45									#57
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Free birth control? Bah

Free firearms....now thats an idea

	17-01-2002 11:49									#58
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vector.cshl.org/eugenics

	17-01-2002 13:13									#59
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Hey. Here's a FREE game dealing with breeding certain traits for a purpose: ENJOY!

	17-01-2002 15:50									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia No, this is about improving the human gene pool.

I just know that the word "Nazis" has been mentioned in this thread already...