21-01-2002 12:39									#1
	Playing in Different Languages Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hello,

I played Civ II so much, that I decided to play it in French to learn the language.

After five years of high school French (not to mention my French speaking relatives who speak little English), I found myself with my trusty French-English dictionary quickly improving my French just by playing many hours of that addictive game, Civ II. It was a fantastic way for me to learn the language!

Then, Civ III became available.

It seems to me there isn't a language option in Civ III to allow me to play it in French, but I turn to you good folks here to share with me the full scoop.

Is there a way for me to play Civ III in French, because I don't think I can go back to Civ II after playing III?


Sincere thanks,

- x0darap


Please visit Trans-Dimensional Voice (www.t-dv.com), check out the original music I have there, and let me know what you think. Your opinion is truly appreciated.

	21-01-2002 12:44									#2
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Well, you could mod the game yourself and have French-speaking lawyers from Infogreed come knocking on your door. I bet that would give you plenty of practice!

	21-01-2002 12:57									#3
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Oh, that's a helpful reply. And you're an "Emperor"?

- x0darap

	21-01-2002 12:59									#4
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Be patient, Grasshoper. All will be revealed in due time...

	21-01-2002 13:52									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Poor x0darap...

Come on yin, go easy on the guy - don't you remember when you were new here too... Or maybe you never were new, being an essential part of the Uiverse and all... And x0darap, you'll get used to yin's quips.

What he means to say is that there was a fan project going to translate Civ3 into German (I think it was German, don't take any of this as writ - there is bound to be a thread in the General forum on the translation project buried SOMEwhere). Infogrames got shirty at this and basically used legal action to stop the project. Needless to say, that provoked somewhat of an outburst on these fora and in the wider fan community, hence yin's comment!

In short, there is NO project or method to translate Civ3 into other languages, and if you decide to go about it yourself (trickier seeing as Civ3 doesn't take .txt file format as in Civ2), you'd better keep it very much to yourself!

And on a side note, welcome to the fickle, furious, fantastic, and sometimes friendly world of Apolyton. You'll find that both Civ-lovers, Civ-haters, and the philosophical sort of fans are all here.

Where do you fit in?

	21-01-2002 13:55									#6
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Oh, and the ranking at the LHS of the screen just reflects how many posts that person has made here. More info on this in the Apolyton FAQ.

And by getting to "Emperor", it only shows that yin has spent a LOT of time here, and not that he necessarily knows what he is doing.

I mean, look at me - somehow I'm a "Warlord" and I pretty much am always talking out of my own ass.

	21-01-2002 13:56									#7
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And so the stone was grasped from nothingness ... excellent, My Son.

	21-01-2002 13:58									#8
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Some Eastern wisdom there?

	21-01-2002 14:55									#9
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quote: Be patient, Grasshoper. All will be revealed in due time...

Je veux mes cigarettes, Infirmière Ratchet! Je veux mes cigarettes MAINTENANT!

(édité pour l'épellation)

	21-01-2002 14:58									#10
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Et qui comprend cette reference?

	21-01-2002 15:01									#11
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Celui qui a vu que Un a Volé au-dessus de l'Emboîtement du Coucou.

	21-01-2002 15:05									#12
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Mais bien sur! Excusez-moi ma betise...

	21-01-2002 17:23									#13
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt I think it was German, don't take any of this as writ - there is bound to be a thread in the General forum on the translation project buried SOMEwhere

The thread is buried here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=35672
It was Infogrames Germany who did not want us to continue the German fan translation project. They said they would not gain any profit by selling the US version over here (even though they imported 75.000 Civ3 copies to sell in Germany).

To my knowledge there also is a russian approach to do a "russan surface mod" (but I do not know for sure, as I can't read the pages):
http://civ3rus.narod.ru/
As Infogrames Germany probably has no intention to do a russian translation, at least this one might stay alive...

	21-01-2002 17:27									#14
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Cheers ColdFever!

(I really need to see to my laziness...)

	21-01-2002 17:36									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt What he means to say is that there was a fan project going to translate Civ3 into German (I think it was German, don't take any of this as writ - there is bound to be a thread in the General forum on the translation project buried SOMEwhere). Infogrames got shirty at this and basically used legal action to stop the project. Needless to say, that provoked somewhat of an outburst on these fora and in the wider fan community, hence yin's comment! In short, there is NO project or method to translate Civ3 into other languages, and if you decide to go about it yourself (trickier seeing as Civ3 doesn't take .txt file format as in Civ2), you'd better keep it very much to yourself!

Man, that is so idiotic!!! Isn't that some sort of human rights violation or something? If I were the German people, I'd declare war on Infrogrames! What right do they have to say that "This game will ONLY be played in English" Talk about a narrow, ethnocentric view.

	21-01-2002 17:48									#16
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Yeah.

Perhaps this has sparked off some of those bloody longwinded anti-American threads in the OT forum...

Or is Infogrames not American and I'm barking up the wrong tree again?

	21-01-2002 18:04									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Willem If I were the German people, I'd declare war on Infrogrames!

So we did, at least a part of us. I wrote both Infogrames and Firaxis a letter. I decided to boycott Infogrames (no Wiggles, no Patrizier II AddOn etc.) and refuse to recommend their games to my pals. And I won't buy more games from Firaxis, unless they fire Infogrames as publisher.

By the way, hi ColdFever!

(EDITed misspelling, but there may be enough of it left...)

	21-01-2002 18:14									#18
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quote: Or is Infogrames not American and I'm barking up the wrong tree again?

Well, it started in France, where it was founded by Bruno Bonnell and Christophe Sapet in 1983. It's pretty global now, though.

	21-01-2002 18:19									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Willem What right do they have

As Infogrames holds the right of the "Civilization" brand AFAIK they hold the right to do an exclusive translation. But then they officially wrote that they wanted people to modify the game according to the personal "creativity and interests", and the Civ3 package even has a readme how to do a translation, so this for us was an invitation and a permission to do so:
http://www.civ3.com/devupdate.cfm

I even have an unofficial email from a nice Firaxian wishing us good luck. But Infogrames Germany obviously has another opinion on that, here a quick translation from the official statement:
http://www.infogrames.de/news.php?NID=27

"The game Civilization III is copyright protected ... if somebody has plans to change parts of the product or to use elsewhere, the corresponding person or group has to apply with the copyright owner or a legal representation (in this case Infogrames) to receive a written permission."

	21-01-2002 18:29									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph And I won't buy more games from Firaxis, unless they fire Infogrames as publisher.[I]

Well, as Infogrames hold the rights for the "Civilization" brand, this would mean we would not get anymore Civ from Firaxis, so this option is unthinkable.

But as I doubt that Infogrames USA even knew of the german fan project and the legal prosecution by Infogrames Germany, I personally will allow myself to buy all interesting titles in the form of the US original version (Civ3 expansion and Unreal Tournament 2, once the stuff will be out).

	21-01-2002 18:29									#21
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quote: Originally posted by ColdFever To my knowledge there also is a russian approach to do a "russan surface mod" (but I do not know for sure, as I can't read the pages): http://civ3rus.narod.ru/

Yes it looks like a translation efford (I can understand Russian). I can't state anything about the state of completion, because I won't load it at my computer and probably lack the fonts anyway. The fanbase seems not to be so big and as far as I can see, they still have problems running the mods.

All I can say is: Zhelayu uspeha! Good luck guys!

	21-01-2002 18:33									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph So we did, at least a part of us. I wrote both Infogrames and Firaxis a letter. I decided to boycott Infogrames (no Wiggles, no Patrizier II AddOn etc.) and refuse to recommend their games to my pals. And I won't buy more games from Firaxis, unless they fire Infogrames as publisher. By the way, hi ColdFever! (EDITed misspelling, but there may be enough of it left...)

You should have contacted the media, or started a campaign. If the general German public knew about it, I think they'd be outraged. It could cause such a diplomatic stir that Infrogrames would be forced to back down pretty damn quick. The odd thing is, they started out as a European company, if I'm reading their web site info correctly. You'd think they'd know better. You'd think ANY company would know better. I can understand not doing it themselves, but to block others from doing so is simply outrageous.

	21-01-2002 18:39									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Libertarian Well, it started in France...

Poor x0darap, his chances to make a French translation mod are really not so good.

	21-01-2002 18:45									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Willem I can understand not doing it themselves, but to block others from doing so is simply outrageous.

There is a misunderstanding here, I am afraid. They wanted to do a translation, but their release date was announced to be March 2002. So we asked them if we could help or if they wanted to help us to get something done to improve the Christmas sales.

quote: Originally posted by Willem You should have contacted the media, or started a campaign

As the fan project went pretty big (even the TV wanted to do a report about Civ3 and the loyal fans) the media already knew all about the project and the interdiction. In fact (I believe) the huge success of the project in the media was the final reason for Infogrames to stop it, as it probably posed a threat to their entire German division (as people could get used to the idea to buy only the US originals and let fans handle the rest).

	21-01-2002 18:46									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Willem You should have contacted the media, or started a campaign. If the general German public knew about it, I think they'd be outraged.

It was in Slashdot as well as a couple of times in the Heise forums (IT related online news), and people were outraged. I did what I could to spread my mispleasure. And I will remind people in due time (when the localized version will be released).

	21-01-2002 19:09									#26
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quote: Originally posted by ColdFever There is a misunderstanding here, I am afraid. They wanted to do a translation, but their release date was announced to be March 2002. So we asked them if we could help or if they wanted to help us to get something done to improve the Christmas sales. As the fan project went pretty big (even the TV wanted to do a report about Civ3 and the loyal fans) the media already knew all about the project and the interdiction. In fact (I believe) the huge success of the project in the media was the final reason for Infogrames to stop it, as it probably posed a threat to their entire German division (as people could get used to the idea to buy only the US originals and let fans handle the rest).

Well they certainly chose an odd way of going about it. They could just as easily have established some controls and guidelines, rather than force an outright ban. It seems to me like they're just shooting themselves in the foot with that kind of response. All they've really succeeded in doing is damaging their public image. I'm sure there have been a "few" clandestine translations made since then, as it's not something that they can actually enforce. In the face of the inevitable, you may as well go with the flow.

	21-01-2002 19:24									#27
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Well, both Infogrames and Firaxis had been informed by ColdFever and his team a long time ago. Firaxis was even cooperative and helped with the translations. Infogrames ignored the cause for whole 4 weeks and brought then the lawyer mace instead of friendly asking to stop the project.

That was the reason, that most people got mad at. A friendly explanation before starting a legal action would have at least saved their face.

Infogrames must die!

	21-01-2002 19:25									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I will remind people in due time (when the localized version will be released).

Please let it be a polite reminder.

1) I have the slight hope, that once the official german version will be out, Infogrames will be so sportsmanlike to allow an "alternative" fan translation for customers of the US version

2) the Infogrames lawyers still did not close the case on me. So any new trouble may come down hard on my shoulders again

Actually I think the position of Infogrames Germany is understandable from the better knowledge we have now: they are independent from Infogrames US, they have a business to run and to pay their staff. I just wish they would not have responded to us fans with lawyers, as we never intended any confrontation and were able to understand their motives.

	21-01-2002 19:34									#29
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quote: Originally posted by ColdFever Please let it be a polite reminder.

Don't worry.

	21-01-2002 19:38									#30
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quote: Originally posted by ColdFever Actually I think the position of Infogrames Germany is understandable from the better knowledge we have now: they are independent from Infogrames US, they have a business to run and to pay their staff. I just wish they would not have responded to us fans with lawyers, as we never intended any confrontation and were able to understand their motives.

Well yes, I can understand their reasons, but they're approach certainly leaves much to be desired. They could have turned the whole thing to their advantage if they would have worked with you instead. Business people can be sooo stupid sometimes.