04-02-2002 01:46									#1
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The rulebook is incorrect. Fungus gives 2-3-3 (not 2-2-2) when all the required techs are learned. Combined with Manifold Harmonics and Planet greater than 2 you get a whopping 3-4-5 (4-4-5 for Gaians). I once posted about massive Mind Worm problems around the time I was building Voice of Planet - apparently what happened is that when I discovered Threshold of Transcendance all my squares (I had converted all to Fungus) started producing 1 more mineral pushing me over the pollution limit.

Centauri Ecology: +1 NUTRIENT
Centauri Psi: +1 NUTRIENT
Centauri Genetics: +1 MINERAL
Matter Transmission: +1 MINERAL
Theshold of Transcendance: +1 MINERAL
Centauri Meditation: +1 ENERGY
Temporal Mechanics: +1 ENERGY
Secrets of Alpha Centauri: +1 ENERGY

Note that you don't get NUTRIENT/MINERAL/ENERGY/RIVER bonuses with fungus. The big pain with converting to fungus is all that forest you earlier planted which keeps growing back over your newly created fungus. Hovertank Formers are a pretty good idea and the Xenoempathy Dome comes in really handy (fungus production doubled).

For SMAC 2, it would be cool to have either a Forest Resistant Fungus Facility or a Secret Project that generates Fungus in an everincreasing patch centered in the base where the SP is located in.

	04-02-2002 02:45									#2
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also, gaians get +1 food in fungus squares, and then there's the manifold harmonics of course.

	04-02-2002 14:03									#3
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For me it's one of the unanswered question of the game if I am playing a green faction like the Cult or the Gaians:

Remove or preserve Fungus?

Forest is the big Fungus Remover. So if you want preserve Fungus you can forgot a "forest game".

	04-02-2002 14:29									#4
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I think the sad thing about the Fungus concept is that by the time it's a viable resource, Transcendence is just a few years ahead of you. And if you're doing fine and aiming for the Transcend victory there's not much point in planting the Fungus. Although I usually turn Transcend and Economic victory off if I want longer and more challenging game. In any case, I think the Fungus kicks in too late in the game, especially for green factions which should be able to use it much sooner.

	04-02-2002 19:23									#5
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Well, if you slow the end game down as in my other thread, fungus would be more useful. I have had little problem foresting everything and then fungusing everything after I build the Manilfold Harmonics.

	04-02-2002 19:53									#6
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quote: I have had little problem foresting everything and then fungusing everything after I build the Manilfold Harmonics.

"Little problem"?

Anyway, that thread was interesting but did it actually found any good solution for the late game tech boost? It seemed that tech was coming in so fast in the end-game that you really couldn't stop it?

	04-02-2002 20:24									#7
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Ways to get Fungus planted quickly:

1. Use Fungal Payloads on your continent
2. Xenoempathy Dome (increases fungus planting speed)
3. Build lots of Hovertank Super Formers (lots of your forests will probably not have roads) - Use the minerals from disbanding your Infantry Super Formers to help build the Hovertank variety.
4. Generate lots of pollution

I'd say just forget about the bonus squares and rivers - at least remove the forests on them since you don't want those trees spreading again - perhaps you could leave a mine or soil enricher in place on some of the bonus squares. When you're all done start removing the roads (if you have the XED) but leave the mag tubes in place.

Slow the Tech Rate by editing alphax.txt at different points in the game and reloading. Seems like a simple solution.

	04-02-2002 21:50									#8
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Those are all good tips though I hate to be dependent of any project in any strategy because they aren't that easy to build when competing against humans.

quote: Slow the Tech Rate by editing alphax.txt at different points in the game and reloading. Seems like a simple solution.

Does editing alpha.txt really affect ongoing games? And if it does, when is the best time to slow down research and how much? It's starting to get complicated and impractical if you ask me. Maybe I just use the Tech Stagnation option and damn the designers . Now when you think of it though, isn't technology discovered at faster rate each instant?

	05-02-2002 03:25									#9
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I've always felt that the latish game fungus production is not something to help developed bases, but rather new and conquered bases.

In other words, forget about trying to convert your forest and other impovements into fungus (unless your formers have nothing else to do). Rather, look on it as a boost to quickly get any late game (probably strategically positioned/needed) new bases, and occassionally bases conquered from the AI, transformed into productive bases.

I find this factor kicks in for me once you have 2/1/1 from a fungus tile (through Cent Psi tech without the Gaians).

	06-02-2002 08:34									#10
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Well, I just finished a Thinker-level game playing as Dee, where an extended war against the Drones meant that I played an abnormally long period of time in the upper branches of the tech tree. I did build the Manifold Harmonics, and let me tell you, getting 4-2-4 on every fungus square really saved my bacon. I was ripping out farms and forests everywhere, and painting the countryside pink! It was enough for me to score a sneaky come-from-behind Ascent victory over Morgan, who was way ahead of me for most of the game. Maybe you don't need to go hog-wild with fungus in most games, but I don't think I would have won that one if I hadn't.

	06-02-2002 13:54									#11
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The problem with fungus is that it just doen't produce nearly as well as other terraforming options at any point in the game. I do use it as Fitz does however. Late in the game when I'm dropping colony pods about the globe from orbit it is great to be able to lay down productive bases which don't require any forming. Still, for per square productivity nothing beats a condensor / farm / soil enricher in the middle to late game, or a borehole in the early to middle part of the game.

	06-02-2002 18:18									#12
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quote: The problem with fungus is that it just doen't produce nearly as well as other terraforming options at any point in the game.

Well, it does produce a lot in the late game! Especially with Manifold Harmonics. But I agree that since it really becomes an option just prior to Transcend(that is, if you play with that victory enabled, which I don't) it most often is not worth an effort.

	07-02-2002 13:54									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Shai-Hulud Well, it does produce a lot in the late game! Especially with Manifold Harmonics. But I agree that since it really becomes an option just prior to Transcend(that is, if you play with that victory enabled, which I don't) it most often is not worth an effort.

Yes it does produce very well for something that takes no former time, or not all that much former time. In terms of per square production in the late game though, it doesn't produce as much as one might guess in comparison to Condensor / Farm / Soil Enricher squares.

Assumption: It's late in the game and your faction (the Gaians) is cruising up the upper reaches of the tech tree. You have built or captured every SP. You have 16 food sats, 16 energy sats and 16 min sats, and transcendi and engineers poulate your bases. Your econ is at +2 and you are about to terraform a square which is flat and moist. You are trying to decide whether to plant fungus there, or a condensor / farm / soil enricher there.

Planting fungus will yield 4 nuts, 4 mins and 6 energy. The nuts will also yield enough food to produce and maintain a specialist (a transcendi), and with the sat bonuses will yield another 2 food, energy and mins, which will support yet another specialist and another food, min and energy. The totals are:

Excess food = 1
Mins = 7
Energy = 9 raw + 16 from the two Transcendi = 25
This is awsome! A total of 33 FOP!

Building a condensor / farm / soil enricher will take a lot more former time. The square will produce enough food (6) to feed it's worker and two specialists. It will also give you 1 energy. The three population will also add 3 more food, mins and energy, which will produce another specialist and another 1 food, min and energy.

Excess food = 1
Mins = 4
Energy = 5 raw and 24 from the transcendi for a total of 29
This produces a grand total of 34 FOP. However there is one more option available for this square, which is to use a crawler to harvest the food and forego the single energy produced by the +2 econ rating. With the worker converted to a transcendi the net gain is another 7 energy, for a grand total of 41 FOP.

Obviously you may find that the former time and psych produced by the extra transcendi for the condensor / farm / soil enricher is less valuable than the minerals and raw energy and less former time required for the fungus. However you may also find that the conditions described here are ideal for the fungus square, especially the fact that the faction chosen is the Gaians, who receive a food bonus in fungus. Additionally, you can find a lot of fungus just lying around the map, while your chances of finding a condensor / farm / soil enricher are nil.

For my play style, I will use fungus where I find it, but I won't plant any. My old bases will already have a lot of condensor / farm / soil enricher squares, and these squares will have had crawlers on them for a century already. They will have produced as well or better than any other terraforming throughout the game, and the fact that they still do so just makes my inertia all the more pleasant, and allow my formers to move out and continue their work in the undeveloped areas of the map.

	07-02-2002 19:13									#14
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quote: The nuts will also yield enough food to produce and maintain a specialist (a transcendi), and with the sat bonuses will yield another 2 food, energy and mins, which will support yet another specialist and another food, min and energy.

You've lost me here. What do Sat bonuses have to do with anything? They're just supplying 16/16/16 to all your bases, right?

If you just build condensor/farms/enrichers where are you getting all your minerals from? Sats only? What happens when a Solar Flare hits?

P.S. I don't use crawlers - makes the game too easy.

	08-02-2002 00:29									#15
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The maximum bonus from satellites to a base is = to the population. So you can consider each population to add +1 nut/min/energy. This is what Sik is doing. Quick example:

Base size 3, Cloudbase Academy project (free Aerospace Complex in base), minimum of 7 satellites of each type.

Worker one on Forest (1/2/1) workers 2 & 3 on Farm/Solar on rolling terrain, altitude <1001 (2/1/1).

Total nutrients = +1 Forest, +4 Farms, +3 Sats, +2 base square = 10. This supports a population of 3 with 4 excess nutrients. When the base grows to size 4 you add a engineer (earlier in game than transcendii), and now gain one more sat nutrient (total 11, excess 3). Base grows to 5 you add another engineer, and gain another sat nut (total 12, excess 2). Base grows to 6, another engineer and sat nut (total 13, excess 1). Base grows to 7, another engineer & sat nut (4 engineers, total nuts 14, no excess) and stabilize. This is all off of 3 workers, and seven satellites.

Total minerals:
Size 3) +2 Forest, +2 rollings, +3 sats, +1 base square = 8
Size 4) +1 sat = 9
Size 5) +1 sat = 10
size 6) +1 sat = 11
size 7) +1 sat = 12 minerals

Total energy:
Size 3) +1 forest, +2 solars, +2 base, +3 sats = 8
Size 4) +1 sat, effective +5 engineer (2 lab, 3 ec) = 14
size 5) +1 sat, +5 engineer = 20
size 6) +1 sat, +5 engineer = 26
size 7) +1 sat, +5 enineer = 32

So lets sat you plop a base down with the Planetary Transit system, and you already have you Cloudbase Academy and 7 of each satellite up, and you quickly terraform the three squares. With this minimum amount of work, you will have a base that will stabilize at population 7, produce 12 minerals, and produce 12 energy plus an effictive 20 more energy from engineers (unaffected by efficiency!). Add facilities & crawlers, and you have a powerhouse.

Now imagine if you add Tree Farms, or terraform those squares to boreholes and Condensor/Farm/Soil Enricher. Or, in the late game use fungus squares producing even greater nut/min/energy from each square.

I generally follow a mostly forest, some borehole or C/F/S strategy. My rule of thumb is to consider all bases as if they had no crawlers, so if an invader comes in trying to destroy my productivity, I don't suddenly start starving all my bases. This has saved my ass a couple of times in LAN games, but the price you pay is lack of a maximized economy (as an all specialist approach would give). This means that fungus squares that exist are extremely helpful in the late game. But, I rarely bother trying to reterraform my homeland, since the forest will grow faster than I can plant the fungus.

	08-02-2002 00:29									#16
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Yxklyx,

Regarding question of mins. The real issue at this point of the game is why do you need a plethora of mins? Energy Energy Energy is the mantra of the game at this point. Mins are nice but not a necessity. Facility builds come from mostly rush builds and as long as you have a minimum of 10 mins you are sitting pretty with a rush build facility per turn. 10 mins is easy even if the dreaded asteriod strike hits your nessus mining sats. (solar flares wipe out energy sats IIRC. Also IIRC nothing touches sky farms and as each 2 nutrients supports 1 transcendi with equivalent useful raw energy input of 6=2 econ/4labs this is the best sat to build thats equal to 3energy/base/food sat. You can't even approach that with energy or min sats.)

If units are your desire then as Sik indicates in previous posts his goal is to make el-cheapo shell units and upgrade them via Energy expenditure into latest and greatests.

Now don't get me wrong, you still want a few modest to high min bases but it's not the end all be all at this point in the game.

But as you are not a crawler user ( I respect your option to not use them to make the game more difficult), mins probably do play a larger role as you are looking to have workers provide useful mins as opposed to crawlering a fewish odd mines. Likewise since crawlers are not in play you are looking for the high min bases to provide you a leg up to SP builds so I can see why you desire mins.

For those tho' do use crawlers a few odd crawlers to boost a few mins is generally all that is required until facilites like robotic facotroy and gene jacks are in play. Supplement it with some min sats end you've gotten a very healthy 30+ mins in no time.

Og

P.S. All this SMAX talk has made it all the more urgent for me to load SMAX back up on the HD. Want to try a Morgan no formers game. Have had some difficulty loading SMAX up keep getting TerranX errors. Can someone remind me is SMAX a stand alone or does it require SMAC to be loaded and upgrade from SMAC.

	08-02-2002 00:33									#17
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You need to upgrade from SMAC Ogie.

	08-02-2002 01:10									#18
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Thx Fitz

Thought so as SMAX was an expansion pack. Now to see if I have available HD space.

	08-02-2002 01:32									#19
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smacx is much more demanding in computor rexources than smac. I would recomend at least 128mb ram and 800mz cpu speed if you are going to play smacx on large or huge maps with big faction empires. More is better.

	08-02-2002 02:09									#20
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This has been a very interesting thread concerning the optimal usage of resources. I have mostly used forest, and crawlers for energy and mins. Somehow I feel that my cities grow to their maximum of 14 in no time and I sit around waiting for decades before I finally discover Hab Dome. But I have thought about seriously trying all-specialist approach since efficiency is an important issue, especially with large empires I tend to build. Keep posting when I come back with some questions and thanks

	08-02-2002 12:41									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Shai-Hulud This has been a very interesting thread concerning the optimal usage of resources. I have mostly used forest, and crawlers for energy and mins. Somehow I feel that my cities grow to their maximum of 14 in no time and I sit around waiting for decades before I finally discover Hab Dome. But I have thought about seriously trying all-specialist approach since efficiency is an important issue, especially with large empires I tend to build. Keep posting when I come back with some questions and thanks

Shai-Hulud,

You might want to space your bases close together when following this sort of strategy. You will have more bases, and with them more population, which means more specialists and the energy they bring. If you use an all or mostly specialist approach you won't have to worry much about bureaucracy drones, so there isn't a big problem there. Of course you will want to use more efficient (space wise) terraforming to at least some extent, though it needn't be as crazy as mine (every square is a base, a borehole or a condensor / farm and a soil enricher once I get the tech.

My tightest spacing is two apart along diagonal lines. Every base has at least 7 squares workable. I put boreholes to the North, South, East and West of every base, which gives every base at least two. All the other squares are condensor / farms, which I crawl. This produces 23 nuts including the base square, which gives me a population of 11-12. Since there is (usually) plenty of space on the edges of my base grid it's no problem to send additional crawlers into the areas on the edge where my new bases will eventually be placed (I just continue my pattern outward), which can bring the populations up to 14 or 16 as warranted. With only 2 workers that means I have 12-14 specialists. Once I get the soil enrichers my bases can support themselves at 16 population solely on the 8 squares I allot them, and bring in a respectable 14 mins and raw energy as well under almost any SE conditions.

I also use a couple of different types of 3 spacing. Three on the diagonal gives my bases plenty of room to grow up to size even using treefarms, and with hybrid forests it leaves some space left over for some crawlers etc. I tend to use this spacing with Lal, in order to make use of his happy workers, often doing the golden age thing. This pattern leaves one unworkable square per base, which can be used in a number of useful ways. It's a good place to raise terrain and plant an echelon mirror (and a crawler of course) if you are using solar since it borders 8 workable squares, and it's not a bad spot to drop a condensor / farm and a crawler because it raises the moisture level of those 8 workable squares.

Finally I use the three in every direction spacing. This only yields one more square per base than 2 on the diagonal, 8 workable squares compared to 7. It has a couple of advantages though, namely that you can really crank out SPs quickly by locating your HQ within one road move (ie 3 squares) of 8 bases. This can be a big help when you want to build a SSC. The extra square also makes forest options more appealing than the tighter 2 on the diag. Working all 8 squares of forest (with a TF and HF) you will produce 27 nuts, enough for 13-14 population including a few specialists. This provides balanced production, and allows fairly easy golden ages which several factions need if they want to pop boom.

Because the game is played for so long before hab domes come about, I found myself in exactly the same situation you describe. A lot of underutilized space in my empire while I waited for hab domes and the ability to work those last 2 to 6 squares in my base radius. With specialists you can build a lot of bases without B-drone problems, and those bases can really produce. Another option is to build fewer bases and use a lot of crawlers to supplement their production.

The larger number of tightly spaced bases have production advantages. Firstly they can be laid down more quickly. Secondly, they represent a lot more productive power because you have more build queues. This means that your peak productive power is greater throughout the game, and your sustainable productive power is greater once you are making enough money to rush buy every turn. From a military standpoint these advantages give you the ability to react to the game as it progresses rather than building a larger standing army early on. This is a turn advantage thing, because you could be building facilities, colony pods or crawlers rather than troops. Finally more bases means more free units that you don't need to support with minerals.

	08-02-2002 16:39									#22
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That is quite extensive placing strategy. I've been reading your posts concerning this issue with enthusiasm. Especially since I'm in the middle of couple MP games. You can beat the AI hands down, even if little tweaked, but to success in MP is definitely going to take more sophisticated strategies. I'll try similar approach in some of my SP games and come back with my gained experience and point of view.

	08-02-2002 19:11									#23
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To Fitz and Sikander:

I am now at work so I can't read all the details of your posts, I trust that they are accurate as your usual.

There is one concept that I really think would make your and everyone's life easier when calculating the number of specialists a base can sustain.

I see that you as many other keep determining the number of citizens supported in a procedural way:
that is, a new 4 food tile allows you to support two more specialists, who produce 2 more food, thus one more specialist, and then if you can make the base grow again the one extra nutrient will allow to support the last one too...

This if you want to point out the "road map".
But if you're interested in determining just how many specialists a food-tile allows to support, in the final steady-state, regardless of the growth-steps required to get there, there's a much simpler calculation to do!

Each Specialist needs 2 nuts to live
Each Specialist will produce 1 of his 2 required nuts from the sky
Eahc Specialist only needs to get the remaining ONE food from land resources, then.
THUS, each single food you get from the land (or sea), will allow you to support ONE specialist at final steady state (provided of course that all the required satellites, HabDomes and growth requirements are met).

So.

One fungus square yielding 4 food will support 4 Specialists = 4 minerals + 4 energy (the 4 nuts from the sky are eaten by the same 4 Spacialists who produce them, for self-support as explained above)

One Farm/Enricher/Condensor square (assuming the condensor(s) make it rainy) yielding 6 food will support 6 specialists = 6 minerals + 6 energy.

Of course this assumes that you crawler the food from the tile.
If you force yourself (or are forced by the game) to WORK that tile, the worker will eat 2 nuts, so only the remaining must be counted to support 1 Specialist each.

A 4-food fungus square will support its worker + 2 Specialists.
A 6-food F/E/C square will support its worker + 4 Specialists.

___
Mind, I'm not saying you posted something wrong, I just suggested a "simpler approach" to determine the supported population at final steady state

	08-02-2002 20:31									#24
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Maione Et. al.

Yes at end game avent of sky farms and hab domes the equation is simple.

Number of land produced nutrients = No. of specialists and/or No. of workers
Assuming enuff sky farms to provide matching land nuts and hab domes established

Mairone, in the last portion of your post you neglect the one nutrient contibution for the sky farm for that worker, thus a 4 food square will support its worker + 3 specialists and a 6 food square will support its worker and 5 specialists.

Not,

"Of course this assumes that you crawler the food from the tile.
If you force yourself (or are forced by the game) to WORK that tile, the worker will eat 2 nuts, so only the remaining must be counted to support 1 Specialist each.

A 4-food fungus square will support its worker + 2 Specialists.
A 6-food F/E/C square will support its worker + 4 Specialists. "

Therefor a 6 nutrient crawlered square with transcendi yields

12 econ
24 labs
or 36 energy points

(Think of it for only 6 sky farms which IIRC have no means to be knocked out of the sky due to random event you get 6 energy/sat/base. That is HUGE)

while a workered 6 nutrient square yields

10 econ
20 labs

or 30 energy



Sorry to nitpick MariOne , as you are normally the epitomy of accuracy with your detail and examples. (I commend you for that)

So back to Fitz's example:

Base size 3, Cloudbase Academy project (free Aerospace Complex in base), minimum of 7 satellites of each type.

Worker one on Forest (1/2/1) workers 2 & 3 on Farm/Solar on rolling terrain, altitude <1001 (2/1/1).

Total nutrients = +1 Forest, +4 Farms, +3 Sats, +2 base square = 10.

Total land based nuts = 7.

He comes up with total population of 7 inclusive of workers and specialists. So we agree.


So again in the spirit of simplicity the real steady state equation is:

land based nuts = total pop points (Workers + specialists)

assuming enuff sky farms and hab domes

Og

Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on 08-02-2002 at 21:00

	08-02-2002 21:40									#25
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Luckily I declared that I was posting from work!

I added at the last moment the crawlerless approach consideration. Not being crawlerless my usual turf, I was misleaded for being too much zealous.
Indeed, every citizen "produces" one nut from sat, regardless of being worker or specialist.

So, in summary, a 4-food tile support 4 citizens. Period. No futher precisation needed (why I let me confuse myself...)

Determining whether they are 4 Specialists or 1 worker + 3 Specialists only alter the amount of Minerals and energy they personally provide (in both cases they also drag down from the sky 4 minerals + 4 energy)

Thank you OO for correcting me this will sure improve my popularity!!!!

	08-02-2002 21:41									#26
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I agree with the posts here (hard to disagree when its all true!), but I will offer one caveat to so many bases: increased infrastructure costs. Each additional base requires additional facililties to be built or rush-bought, and the on-going costs for maintenance. While outweighed by the gains from increased energy in the mid-to-late game, those costs are not trivial. If you have fewer very large bases, as opposed to many smaller ones, you will have lower facility maint and build costs.

Of course, some of this is mitigated by free facilities or SPs, and you get some back in the free mins for fonuding a base, the PTS, and the increased free support units.

	09-02-2002 00:10									#27
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quote: Originally posted by wheathin If you have fewer very large bases, as opposed to many smaller ones, <...>

Yeah, but with Siks spacing you have many very large bases (ie size 14) until the late game, as opposed to fewer very large bases (size 14). Only once Hab Domes are discovered does the impact hit you. Now, unlike some people I don't assume "the game is over long before this" because I have played many LAN games with conquer only on, and they can run to the retirement year without resolution, but for the most part it is true enough. Certainly in SP games, 90%-95% of the game (although not time put into it) occurs before hab domes. The rest tends towards wrap up.

Mario & OO, thanks for the simplification and summarization. I have never thought of it in those terms, as nut to pop supported is one of the few parts of the game I do holistically, as opposed to calculated. This will probably change that.

	10-02-2002 03:40									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander: I put boreholes to the North, South, East and West of every base

I put boreholes where I can place them. Do you play on a flat terrain (strong erosive forces), were you extremely lucky that the terrain always matched your base scheme, or do you terraform like hell?

	11-02-2002 08:31									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Adalbertus I put boreholes where I can place them. Do you play on a flat terrain (strong erosive forces), were you extremely lucky that the terrain always matched your base scheme, or do you terraform like hell?

You can put a borehole on any terrain. Move a former to the square and hit "B". If you get the message stating that you cannot place a borehole on sloping terrain (or whatever it says), then you will need to lower the terrain (left bracket command) first. Then place the borehole. I played the game for well over a year before I learned about this. So, yes, I terraform like hell. Rocky squares get leveled unless they are where a borehole would go, fungus gets ripped out, and I raise sea squares to get more land or to round out production areas.

My last few games have been played on Dilithium Dad's Ultimate Builder Map, which is a modified huge map of planet. It seems to be more or less a normal map regarding elevations and rockiness, but contains a good deal more fungus. If you are lucky enough to start on the Northern Island or the other big Island in the North than your fungus seems to be of more normal proportions.

wheathin,

Yea, more bases but the same per base productivity more or less, so they are well worth the investment. I do try to get all the free facility projects also, but it's not critical. The two advantages are speed (faster getting your bases into place, and faster growth due to more places to grow in) and more efficient terrain utilization. There are a few disadvantages, this system is probably not as great in a blind or double blind game, because it tends to depend on advanced terraforming and crawlers (though you can do it without the crawlers with less productivity), and restrictions lifted so that those boreholes produce something for all of that former time.

In a blind game simply getting the Weather Paradigm makes this system instantly viable nutrients-wise, because you can build condensor farms which produce 4 nutrients even though you haven't yet got nutrient restrictions lifted. It's kind of like having a nutrient bonus in every square which you put a condensor in.

Even after hab domes come having more bases still has an advantage over having fewer bases with more production. Namely, once you get hab domes and your satellite nut production becomes useful you are still limited to the growth rate of one population per base per year. In the same space as an empire of 9 perfectionist bases (21 squares each) I can fit 23-24 (well, 23.625) of my (8 square) bases, which yields a growth advantage of 2.55 to one (assuming 23 bases). It also yields an advantage in satellite utilization of the same magnitude, ie every satellite for the perfectionist yields 9 FOP, while it yields 23 FOP for me.

So the basic doubling of your populations once you get satellites accrues more quickly and pays for itself more quickly the more bases you have. My average bases (ie no specials) top out at 33 population, which means that my land area reaches maximum productivity 17 years after the hab dome goes in (assuming I had a limit of 16 before). This would take 77 years with a perfectionist base with a similar terraforming ratio to mine (15 condensor / farm / soil enrichers and 5 boreholes). Eventually it also means that the larger base empire will have to build many more satellites as well, for what is about the same production in the end, but less for a good long time.

Finally, if you are not courting ecodamage (and I've spent too much time terraforming to risk a sea level rise) you have to spend a lot more effort mitigating that damage with larger bases, or accept less mineral productivity. My bases produce 14 minerals on the ground and 33 with the appropriate sattelites, for a total of 47 minerals. If I want to go with this number, than there will be zero ecodamage regardless of my previous history (ie 'pops'). As soon as I choose to use a factory however, the minerals from space which come in to being because of the factory do add to the 'bad' mineral total. Thus I can forego the factory, forego the mining satellites or seek to alleviate the ecodamage by building 'Good Facs' (Treefarms, Hybrid Forests, Centauri Preserves and Planet Temples). By building all of these facilities in all 23 of my bases I will thus have over 100 minerals allowable per base without pollution. This will allow me to build two of the factory facilities in each base (each adds +50% to mineral production), and end up with a total clean production of 94 per base, with more possible should a base contain a mineral or nutrient special.

The larger base system is beset with a double problem here. He has fewer bases, which means fewer 'good facs' (or he has spent time and effort building, scrapping and rebuilding them) at the same time he has more mineral production per base. He has only one alternative as I see it. He can refuse to build the factory facilities and just use his clean space minerals. This is a fairly nice alternative, because it allows him to hit some fairly nice production totals without worrying overly about anything. Assuming that he has 5 boreholes and 15 condensor / farm / soil enrichers, than his total minerals will be (once his bases grow to full size (93) and all the satellites are built) 123. Of course it will take 77 years for him to get there assuming that 1/3 of his queue productivity is dedicated to satellites which are rush built every turn, or that he had built ahead before hab domes were available. If there is still time left in the game he could even form over his boreholes and replace them with additional condensor / farm / soil enrichers. This would not result in a net mineral or raw energy increase, but it would give more population and thus production from specialists.

Comparing the total clean mineral productivity of the two empires:

Small and numerous = 94 *23 bases = 2162 minerals per turn
Big and few = 123 * 9 bases = 1107 mins per turn

Of course either empire could expand into other lands, and increase their production that way. This is just a comparison based upon a given land area. The numerous instances of turn advantage for the tighter base placement are however irrecoverable for the more spread out empire. From the early advantage of colony pod movement, through the early pop booms, and until the economy of scale and growth multiplier in the hab dome and satellite period the numerous and tight base strategy is superior in total game production.

	11-02-2002 17:48									#30
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This is not a terraforming strategy; this is a Theory of Terraforming; this is a style of terraforming; a way doing and a way of being done. A philosophy of terraforming