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Immortal Wombat
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in perpetuity
Dec 2000
time: 05:17
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quote:
Originally posted by TechWins
Hence the word of "might" which implies possibility to an event. Whereas your thought process implies of only one occurrence, and that sure is hell ain't having Civ3 becoming the game it is supposed to be. I'll go with my thought process, which leaves a window open to possibilities, and you can go with your thought process, "no chance in hell". 
Seriously, though, I don't see why Firaxis wouldn't want to exploit more money out of Civ3. In exploiting more money out of Civ3, Civ3 has a chance of becoming the game it was supposed to be. IMO, I see Firaxis trying to exploit more money out of Civ3 within the year, which is completely understandable for a company to do. Again, I'll go back to my word usage of "might", because as of right now Civ3 = might and only time can tell what might will equal.
Yes, I realize what I jus said probably made very little sense. |
I got that after 2 readings
Ok, maybe "might". All depends on what is was supposed to be. A worthy successor to Civ2? Maybe
A worthy succesor to Civ2 and CtP2? Never. Show me the SLIC!
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CharlesUFarley
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Canada
Dec 2001
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by OneInTen
Hardly. I don't buy many things, mainly because I decide before spending my money whether I believe something will be worthwhile. If you spent your money on civ 3, it did what it said it was going to do, and you're still unsatisfied, I say cry me a river.
Geez, pirate the game first to see if it's worthwhile if you have to! Just don't whinge after you made a purchasing decision if that purchasing decision is in retrospect one you regret, not because the goods were defective, but your decision was defective.
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OiT you're making the assumption that every consumer strolls through the market with a calculator in one hand, and a small notepad listing the pro's and con's of each and every game product on the shelf. And that eventually with a well thought out decision and some practical reasoning, a game is finally purchased. Fact is, people rarely shop that way, and most of the time a game is purchased for four reasons...
1) My friend said it was a cool game.
2) I read the reviews, and they said it was a hit.
3) The box and picture artwork revealed it to appear really good.
Or in this case
4) It's a sequal to a smash hit, it's got to be good! (Civ2)
So what I'm saying is, most of us (I can't speak for everyone - I can only assume here) purchased Civ3 because of the 'name' and it's 'reputation' not because of a smart buy. So if you're saying that you feel that people should spend their money more wisely, than I completely agree with you. But if you're stating that people are "foolish" or "dumb" because they fell into the "game hype trap" that's just plain ridiculous. And believe me I'm no idiot when it comes to purchasing a game, but I shamefully admit that I too fell blinded by game hype and reputation.
Charles.
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CharlesUFarley
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Canada
Dec 2001
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Antonin
It's a computer game, people. If it's so important to you that the "defects" you imagine to be in it are consuming your every waking moment, then maybe it's time to seek help. |
Well it may take you all you're existing life to answer messages and keep updated on here, but it takes me a few minutes a day, and occasionally I skip a day or two. So this little fixation on 'people should get a life' remarks not only reveals you to be on that same boat, but eventually drowning in the fact that this message board or any other has nothing to do with someone's personal life. "It's a computer game, get a life" well on the same token "It's a message board, don't worry about it".
quote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Hate Civ3? Don't play it. |
If you don't like criticism, don't read it.
quote:
And of course, when you guys finish developing your own computer games, instead of just rambling on about somebody else's, be sure to let me know so I can subject your work to a little gentle criticism... |
And when you're done picketing and ranting about critics on broadway & main - maybe you can only then begin to set the example for the very people you're complaining about!
Charles.
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CharlesUFarley
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Canada
Dec 2001
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
quote:
Answer yes to any and Congradulations! You're a whiner too. |
totally wrong definition!! it's one thing to criticise, to post your opinion. it's another to post it 30 times over and over again. THAT is a whiner... |
Nonsense. Anyone with common sense knows that the term "whiner" only comes up when someone's argument dries up and they resort to childish name calling, or often in most cases these people are calling critics whiners because they simply don't like what they're reading. In other words, "Whiner" really means "I don't agree with you" or a variation of it. You can't honestly believe that the majority of users on this board (whom which are adults) are here to solely "whine/complain" about a game product! Each and every individual no matter how irrational they become (due to anger) has an objective goal or valid point to make. In the least a message board is a good place to vent you're gripes, but if it makes you sleep better at night to degrade a stranger with electrons and bits of data, at least realize that each and every adult on the face of this earth has a little childishness in them every once and a while, no one is perfect.
But put this "whiner" term to rest for god sakes, criticism is 'productive' as it focuses on what is wrong with a product in order to improve it. How is "na na - I love civ3 and if you don't - you're just a whiner!" at all productive? Put the "whiner" name calling to sleep folks. Let the critics criticise, and let the game praising continue - but don't cross the streams! It's like a monkey F!@# a football for christ's sake.
Charles.
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CharlesUFarley
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Canada
Dec 2001
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming
One more time in simple terms...
I agree with much of Yin says... it's how he says it that is the problem. Instead of constructive criticism, he calls them idiots, or makes assine comments like "they are laying in their own crap" and other rude comments.
There is nothing wrong with not liking game... or saying that it has it flaws... But much of what he posts now are just petty insults... something I would expect from a young child... not an adult who used to be a very respected member of the gaming community. |
I completely agree with Yin on all his points, and I don't blame him for insulting them, why should he treat them with respect when he feels disrespected by them? The fact is, you just proved Yin's whole cause to be worthy by reacting with insult to his comments. Every action demands a reaction. Yin is only reacting to Firaxis. Simple logic.
Charles.
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CharlesUFarley
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Canada
Dec 2001
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming
Well.. that's where we will disagree. They produced a game under restrictions placed on them by their publisher. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's fair game to insult them. I stand by my comment that it seems to not be a mature response.
Plus, I don't think it gains anything, because as even they have stated, they don't listen to people that do it. So what's the point. |
The contract and restrictions have little or nothing to do with the present issue, in fact it's common knowledge and ancient history. You debate that the consumer should show the company respect, but what if the company sets a poor example of such proclaimed levels of respect and then avoids the issue by hiding away from it's community? You can argue that this isn't the case or that never happened but the fact is it DID.
And you arm yourself with words like proffesionalism or maturity well lets take a good look at it, Firaxis has poorly demonstrated both - if they were pro's they would handle criticism and insults with firm and direct rebuttles acompanied by answers. This never happened (prove otherwise). Maturity would demonstrate that no matter how rabid or vicious the fans become, they will always be answered and treated with respect - because it's good business policy and will increase reputation. But let's look at how this really unfolded...
1) Firaxis ships a game that is felt by some - a dispointment
2) Community inquires why and how.
3) Firaxis provides lame excuse.
4) Community isn't content with response, inquires more.
5) Firaxis ignores community.
6) Community gets annoyed, tries to reason (multiple emails).
7) Firaxis provides more lame excuses.
8) Community is agitated, repeats questions.
9) Firaxis ignores community.
10) Community is pissed off, let the games begin <-- we are here.
No, you're wrong Ming. Firaxis started this, and this is the reaction. Simple. If they want respect, they should shed some and set an example. But this is business, not personal - so who cares what anyone thinks or says! Disapointment will be disapointment no matter where you go, and believe me we're disapointed. And the sooner they respond to us, the sooner the criticism and repeaticiuos complaining will evaporate. Ignore - and it will go on forever.
Charles.
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Ming
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quote:
Originally posted by CharlesUFarley
No, you're wrong Ming. Firaxis started this, and this is the reaction. Simple. If they want respect, they should shed some and set an example. But this is business, not personal - so who cares what anyone thinks or says! Disapointment will be disapointment no matter where you go, and believe me we're disapointed. And the sooner they respond to us, the sooner the criticism and repeaticiuos complaining will evaporate. Ignore - and it will go on forever.
Charles. |
No... you are wrong. I said nothing about respect. You are welcome to be disappointed. But, does that mean you can stoop so low as insults. "They are idiots, or they suck" isn't what I would call a mature response to your disappointment
Yeah... it's a business. Deal with it. They have done a patch, and it is highly probably that there will be another, or an expansion pack. They are working on the problems. Calling them names doesn't help anything. Criticism is OK... name calling is childish at best...
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CharlesUFarley
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Canada
Dec 2001
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming
No... you are wrong. I said nothing about respect. You are welcome to be disappointed. But, does that mean you can stoop so low as insults. "They are idiots, or they suck" isn't what I would call a mature response to your disappointment |
Name calling is a form of disrespect, therefor you want us to 'respect' them by not calling them names. Playing on my wording won't favor you're point. Although I agree with you, name calling is the mark of imaturity and low self esteem. But, when a mechanic works on you're car and screws up your egnition timing and forgets to put in a fuel pump, and you call him an 'incompitant fool' doesn't mean you're an imature name calling child. You're expressing anger by categorizing people by their actions using a form of slander derived from emotion. And it's not uncommon for game fans to slander game companies and their employees when they're let down. You of all people should know that, assuming you are a fan and still bare the emotion of disapointment - so you're still wrong.
quote:
Yeah... it's a business. Deal with it. They have done a patch, and it is highly probably that there will be another, or an expansion pack. They are working on the problems. Calling them names doesn't help anything. Criticism is OK... name calling is childish at best... |
Well, you're material must be drying up, you're using mine. I told YOU to deal with it, it's a business and should be treated like a business, not a virgin child. If they take offense to our remarks, criticism, or name calling then they're not only unproffesional but also imature. Yin's remarks maybe offensive, but he's right.
Charles.
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Sir Ralph
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Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by CharlesUFarley
1) Firaxis ships a game that is felt by some - a dispointment
2) Community inquires why and how.
3) Firaxis provides lame excuse.
4) Community isn't content with response, inquires more.
5) Firaxis ignores community.
6) Community gets annoyed, tries to reason (multiple emails).
7) Firaxis provides more lame excuses.
8) Community is agitated, repeats questions.
9) Firaxis ignores community.
10) Community is pissed off, let the games begin <-- we are here.
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Who gave you the right to claim the word "Community" exclusively for your cause? Isn't that discriminating people who have a different opinion, but also belong to the "Community"?
I give you another version:
1) Firaxis ships a game that is felt by some - a disappointment
2) Community inquires why and how.
3) Firaxis releases a first patch. It corrects a few light flaws, leaving the worst flaws untouched
4) Community complains again.
5) Firaxis says, that is working on another patch.
6) Community splits. Some people silently wait for the patch and hope that it will be more useful than the first one. Some people begun to criticise. That's their right as customers so far, and positive.
7) Firaxis does not respond
8) The criticism is getting annoying, because the same things are repeated over and over. Other people start to defend ("fanboy") the game. Both kinds of threads are growing into b*tch fests, because both sides end up in personal insults and name calling.
9) Firaxis engages a public beta team. The 2nd patch seems to be soon released <-- We are here.
I work as software developer myself. When getting engaged, I had to sign a rule, that I have in no way the right to tell on what I work right now, or to leak features of new releases of our software to customers. This right has only the marketing division, after the new features are approved and working. I'll face a $10000 penalty (worth, in our currency) and can also been fired, if I break this rule. Sounds familiar?
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CharlesUFarley
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Canada
Dec 2001
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Who gave you the right to claim the word "Community" exclusively for your cause? Isn't that discriminating people who have a different opinion, but also belong to the "Community"?
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Don't play dumb. You know exactly what I meant. 
quote:
I give you another version:
1) Firaxis ships a game that is felt by some - a disappointment
2) Community inquires why and how.
3) Firaxis releases a first patch. It corrects a few light flaws, leaving the worst flaws untouched.
4) Community complains again.
5) Firaxis says, that is working on another patch. And the patch information was released so vaguely that a large percentage of the community (including Charles Farley) missed the announcement, so we feel the least Firaxis could do was UPDATE their bloody homesite so that EVERYONE could see that another patch was in the making.
6) Community splits. Some people silently wait for the patch and hope that it will be more useful than the first one. Some people begun to criticise. That's their right as customers so far, and positive. And rather than letting criticism construct ways to improve the game through harsh complaints and the blade of an axe, the "fanboys" are formed in a mighty crusade - to what? To save the game from being destroyed arrrrggghhhh! No, actually to bi+ch about people bi+ching, and make things worse!.
7) Firaxis does not respond
8) The criticism is getting annoying, because the same things are repeated over and over. Because you have to keep explaining yourself to new arrivals and people who jump in the conversation at mid point . Other people start to defend ("fanboy") the game. To criticise a product in order to improve it makes sense, to 'defend' or 'praise' a product won't improve the product.. Both kinds of threads are growing into b*tch fests, because both sides end up in personal insults and name calling. Yet if Firaxis gave us more information and provided better PR then none of this would be happening right now.
9) Firaxis engages a public beta team. The 2nd patch seems to be soon released <-- We are here.
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I made a few adjustments in bold text, and now it makes more sense. Anything asside from that is only you're opinion and I'm not here to argue over opinion, nor do I care. My mind is unchanged on this matter until I hear from a Firaxi-Rep.
Charles.
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CharlesUFarley
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Canada
Dec 2001
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
Not gonna step in the middle of the fighting, but I did wanna make one comment (not directed at any person, or company in particular).
There is no such thing as the distinction between "business" and "personal."
Business is personal. It could be argued that there are few things MORE personal....Assuming an even vaguely competitive industry, if a company doesn't treat its customers personally, then their days as a profitable entity are numbered, cos it won't take terribly long for a competitor to come along who will, and the company that doesn't "get it" will watch as their customer base melts away.
-=Vel=- |
Exactly, and that's why alot of us are pissed off, because we feel that Firaxis is lacking that 'personal touch' with it's community. I agree with you completely.
Charles.
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CharlesUFarley
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Canada
Dec 2001
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Uuuh, have I been rude? So sorry for that, but... I reread my post and can't see the rude point. Care to explain? |
Simple, I was in the middle of a debate with another member of this board and you rudely interupted by joining my debate opponent and slandering my views on the matter. Normally that would be fine, everybody does it. But you're important commentary turned out to be meaningless childish slanderous rant. In other words, you offered nothing to that debate, and you're only intention (from what I could see) was to get my attention so that you could feel like you're apart of the group. Well you're half right, you got my attention.
quote:
Another cultural achievement? And you are calling me rude? 
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Like I said before, what does 'culture' have to do with game debate? You make no sense, maybe you could elaborate on that one. And yes I'm calling you rude, and if you want to debate with me, I have no problem with that - but at least stick to topic and once you make a point, don't repeat the same point and then resort to childish smart@ass remarks. Now I was talking about how I agree with Yin on his point of view, was there something important you would like to add to that discussion, or just more snide remarks?
Charles.
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10-02-2002 03:33
Never does any harm to please the site owner 
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