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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:17
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Here's a good link about it: http://web.idirect.com/~ccaft/arrow.html
Excerpt:
quote:
October 4, 1957, saw the official rollout of the first Avro Arrow a supersonic jet fighter designed and built in four short years. With the Arrow, Avro had created a brilliant aviation industry that drew to Canada international specialists at the top of their fields. After the unveiling, Aviation Week reported: "Avro CF105 Arrow has given Canada a serious contender for the top military aircraft of the next several years. The large, decidedly advanced deltawing fighter was rolled out of the Malton plant a few days ago... The Arrow's power, weight and general design leave little doubt of its performance potential."Flight, another international aviation magazine, called the Arrow "the biggest, most powerful, most expensive and potentially the fastest fighter that the world has yet seen." 4
On March 25, 1958, the Avro Arrow Mark I a "great, sleek, white bird," to one observer lifted gracefully from the runway and was airborne for the first time.5 The most advanced aircraft in the world, it exceeded all expectations. At threequarter throttle, the Arrow flew at nearly twice the speed of sound faster than the most advanced plane in the Canadian Air Force three decades later, the American F18.
The world speed record in 1958 was 1404 mph. The first five Arrows, fitted with temporary, less powerful engines, flew at 1320 mph. Into the sixth Arrow was installed the most advanced and the most powerful engine in the world, the brand new Iroquois, Canadian designed and built from scratch. On February 19, 1959, the Avro Arrow Mark II, fitted with Iroquois engines, was on the tarmac, being prepared for the test flight expected easily to break the world speed record. Behind it, another thirtyone Mark IIs, Iroquois equipped, were ready to roll down the assembly line. |
quote:
Why was the Arrow cancelled? The official reason given by the government was that the missile age had dawned and manned jet fighter aircraft, including the Arrow, had become obsolete. Accordingly, the new American missile system, called the Bomarc missile system, was to be purchased, and because Canada could not afford both the Arrow and the Bomarc, the Arrow had to go. Behindthescenes pressure from the United States for Canada to buy the Bomarc a system that was untried, unproven and would eventually prove useless was direct and effective. In a meeting between the Canadian defence minister, George Pearkes, and the U.S. secretary of state for defence, Neil McElroy, the Canadian government asked what would happen if Canada refused to buy the Bomarc. The Canadians were told that "the consequence would be... the emplacement of at least one more Bomarc Squadron in the U.S., south of the Great Lakes."17 Because the Bomarc had a limited range of 250 miles, this would mean, in the advent of war against incoming Soviet missiles from the north, the certainty of nuclear holocaust above Canada's most densely populated regions. Consequently, the Canadian government decided to purchase the Bomarcs, put them further north in Canada, and terminate the Arrow.
Within two months of the Arrow's cancellation, Canadians were told that fighter aircraft to intercept Soviet bombers were still necessary after all. Ten months later, General Lawrence Kuter of the United States, Commanderinchief of the North American Air Defence agreement (NORAD), requested that Canada equip itself with supersonic fighters such as the American F101B. In 1961, Canada purchased sixtysix of these dated aircraft in no way comparable to the Arrow from the United States. Two decades later Canada would spend roughly $5 billion ($30 million per plane) purchasing the American F18A, an aircraft still inferior to the Arrow.
As for the Bomarc missile system, admitted by the Americans themselves to be entirely for the the defence of the American Strategic Air Command and not for Canada, it turned out to be an expensive dud which became obsolete before it was installed.
A significant but little known fact is that the Arrow was the only aircraft in the world capable of downing the new, top secret U2 spy plane developed by the CIA, which in the late 1950s was overflying countries around the globe. The U2 flew at an altitude of 70,000 feet, unreachable by any existing interceptor but well within the Arrow's range. In 1960, Defence Minister Pearkes admitted the U2 was overflying Canada and that without interceptor aircraft, Canada was powerless to police its own skies against such an intruder. |
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gopher
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I eat my own poop
Dec 1999
time: 00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Well, if you define loss like that, sure.
I define loss as failed attempts to complete objectives.
You had an objective in the war to try to take Canada, and you failed (miserably).
Canada defended itself and, furthermore, burned down your capital.
I define that was a victory for Canada, and a loss for you.  |
Funny, in my Canadian Studies class (I know, I can't believe I took it, but it was great) we found out that while Americans believe they won the war, due to Battle of New Orleans, the destruction of Tecumseh, and end of British Aggression, Canadians feel they won because of stopping US aggression on their own. Funny how history works, eh?
BTW, yes we rebuilt the white house, but thats easier than rebuilding York/Toronto, although I hear that many canadians would like us to teach Toronto a lession, kind of like how many of us felt about NYC before 9.11
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:17
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The real icing on the cake:
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With the cancellation of the Arrow thousands of the highly skilled engineers, designers and aerospace workers, some gathered with great difficulty from all over the world, who for ten years had refused repeated offers from U.S. firms to leave Canada, were thrown out of work and now had little choice. Twentysix of Avro's top engineers, including Jim Chamberlin from British Columbia, Avro's chief of design, were sent by the Canadian government to NASA, where their skills played a crucial role in landing an American on the moon. Chamberlin was later described by NASA management as "probably one of the most brilliant men ever to work with NASA." Highly skilled Avro engineers made their contributions in almost all fields of aviation and technology throughout the Western world, not only with NASA but also with Boeing of Seattle, RCA in Massachussetts, HawkerSiddeley of England, Fokker of Holland, and the European Space Agency. |
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Zylka
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Wow. It's like a B grade Onion for Stupid people.
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Dr Strangelove
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Avro arrows could shoot down U2s? In 1958 Canada was already a member of NORAD, a mutual air defense association, so why would the Canadians shhot down U2s?
The agreement forming NORAD required that Canada allow the US to set up a radar warning network (DEWS) in Canada and be allowed to send US fighters into Canadian airspace to intercept Soviet bombers in the event of a Soviet attack. In the 1950s the anti-aircraft missles fitted on US long range interceptors assigned this task were to use nuclear warheads in order to improve the chances of destroying attacking bombers. In exchange for Canada offering to sacrifice its people in the defense of the USA Canadian officers were placed in the NORAD command structure. Even today a Canadian is in charge of the fate of North America 8 out of every 24 hours.
Gosh, you people are sure swell. Imagine offering to allow the detonation of nuclear missles above your homeland in order to protect kids here in Lynchburg, Virginia.
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
We've been trying to kill off what remains of the Inuit population for years. Why the hell wouldn't we let you do it for us? |
If only the Ruskies had co-operated.
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
I'm not sure how up to date you are with Canadian geography, but did you know that maybe 30,000 people total live in the entire Northwest Territories up there?
FAR less than he densly populated areas at the border. |
In the 1950s I'm not sure that there was any guarentee that the interceptors would have gotten to the attacking bombers over the Northern Territories. Some of them might have been intercepted over British Columbia, Alberta, Mannitoba, Saskatchewan, Quebec, or even Ontario. The important objective was to keep them from reaching vital cultural areas in New York, Illinois, Califonia, Ohio, Massachusetts, Virginia, Maryland, New Jersey, and many others.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
In the 1950s I'm not sure that there was any guarentee that the interceptors would have gotten to the attacking bombers over the Northern Territories. Some of them might have been intercepted over British Columbia, Alberta, Mannitoba, Saskatchewan, Quebec, or even Ontario. The important objective was to keep them from reaching vital cultural areas in New York, Illinois, Califonia, Ohio, Massachusetts, Virginia, Maryland, New Jersey, and many others. |
With the radar system in place, they would have been intercepted in Northern Canada, where it's EXTREMELY sparatically populated.
There are interceptors based in Cold Lake, Alberta (northern Alberta), for example.
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All times are GMT. The time now is 05:17.
Apolyton Time is 00:17. |
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10-02-2002 10:23
at the discussion so far.
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