12-02-2002 15:24									#31
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6 dead officers killed...

	12-02-2002 20:17									#32
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There are rescue workers all over the world that risk their lives to help people. I think they are all great, regardless of nationality.

It should really make you happy that there are still people who are prepared to risk their lives to help others. It's a good story to help you believe in human spirit, nothing to do with patriotism.

	12-02-2002 20:35									#33
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Question for the Americans: If the firemen had been Europeans would you stop all your anti-EU trolling?

I doubt it.

	12-02-2002 21:12									#34
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Gambian Firefighters didnt die rushing back into a building


Get your own damn Hero's.


Were proud of them cause they served there country so well. And we unite to beat down those who did this.

	12-02-2002 21:16									#35
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I'm convinced.

Where do I file for Port Authority Citizenship ?

	12-02-2002 21:26									#36
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Gambian village on fire - not much about the firefighters, looks like the villagers had to put out their own fire.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200202120315.html

Tenth anniversary of a plane crash in the Gambia where local villagers went to help the victims.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200202110210.html

Gambia is a hard place to find news stories on and these aren't too detailed but they are from the last 2 days.

	12-02-2002 21:29									#37
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I don't remember seeing any goverment officials or politicians risking their lives.


Give credit where it is due - to the rescue workers.

	12-02-2002 21:34									#38
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Gambian village on fire - not much about the firefighters, looks like the villagers had to put out their own fire. http://allafrica.com/stories/200202120315.html Tenth anniversary of a plane crash in the Gambia where local villagers went to help the victims. http://allafrica.com/stories/200202110210.html Gambia is a hard place to find news stories on and these aren't too detailed but they are from the last 2 days.

no offense. but my point was, you probably missed it...I DONT CARE about Gambian firefighters

	12-02-2002 21:38									#39
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Quite right too, patriotism is a lot more important than basic human compassion.

	12-02-2002 21:39									#40
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People will take that comment seriously around here!

	12-02-2002 21:41									#41
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Quite right too, patriotism is a lot more important than basic human compassion.

Patriotism is feeling pride of your country? Tell me you think thats a bad thing?


Its difficult to explain....

9/11-->attacked--->Al-queda predict we fall apart and will crumble after recesssion-->we defy them---->we defy them and win--->we show unity and forget our domestic differences in the face of a common,external enemy----> etcetc...



understand?

	12-02-2002 21:55									#42
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When our country gets bombed by terrorists it doesn't make me want to close ranks and go to war it makes me wish that everyone would spend more time trying to understand each other so we didn't have these problems in the first place. People looking out for each other is a lot more important than some ridiculous political boundaries between different areas of land on the planet.

The actions of the rescue workers, and members of the public who died helping people on 11th Sept made me cry. I hope I'm never in that situation but if I am I hope I can live up to their example. Those rescue workers gave their lives to help people who were in trouble, people of all nationalities. I just don't see what it has to do with patriotism.

	12-02-2002 22:00									#43
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH When our country gets bombed by terrorists it doesn't make me want to close ranks and go to war it makes me wish that everyone would spend more time trying to understand each other so we didn't have these problems in the first place. People looking out for each other is a lot more important than some ridiculous political boundaries between different areas of land on the planet.

And because you scorn your country means we should hate ours?



Sorry, we love our country. Maybe you dont share that belief about your land...but we do.

	12-02-2002 22:08									#44
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There are a lot of more important things than countries. I feel sorry for you if you can't see that.

I don't just scorn my country, I scorn a lot of others too. Most of them are run by corrupt imbeciles. Doesn't mean that the people in those countries aren't capable of great things though.

	12-02-2002 22:16									#45
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6 people die to save someone, and you feel patriotic? Those 6 men have done that heroic deed, not the country. Be proud of those 6 men, not the country.

Everything is an excuse for patriotism in the US nowadays.

	12-02-2002 22:42									#46
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Everything is an excuse for patriotism in the US nowadays

If there was real reason for it, they wouldn't need an excuse

	12-02-2002 23:06									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh Question for the Americans: If the firemen had been Europeans would you stop all your anti-EU trolling? I doubt it.

Ha Ha, considering 95% of all trolls are anti-USA, that's a hell of a postion to take, Rogan!

It always seems that the best of us are lost in these matters, no matter what flag they fly.

I see this as a triumph of the human spirt, they felt trying to save that woman was more important then their own lives.

Does it make me want to wave a flag? no.

Does it make me less patriotic? No, again.

I will always love this country, these are examples of it's finest people, but that doesn't mean there aern't such people elsewhere.

You Euros are FAR to senitive.

	12-02-2002 23:38									#48
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quote: You Euros are FAR to senitive.

It's not that. If Americans want to be patriotic it's their choice, but leave us out of it, especcially when giving bogus reasons for that patriotism. This thread was clearly intented for US-sceptics, like me.

Basically, I have a problem with the following "logic"

6 firemen died trying to save one person. THUS: America is a country worthy of praise.

I fail to see that logic. Those people that died deserve the praise, not the country. "America" didn't try to save that one person, but 6 individual people did. People like that are found all over the world, it's not a typical US thing. Individual heroism isn't a reason to praise a country, otherwise EVERY country on this planet is worthy of the same praise.

quote: I see this as a triumph of the human spirt, they felt trying to save that woman was more important then their own lives. Does it make me want to wave a flag? no. Does it make me less patriotic? No, again. I will always love this country, these are examples of it's finest people, but that doesn't mean there aern't such people elsewhere.

	12-02-2002 23:44									#49
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quote: 9/11-->attacked--->Al-queda predict we fall apart and will crumble after recesssion-->we defy them---->we defy them and win--->we show unity and forget our domestic differences in the face of a common,external enemy----> etcetc...

No country would fall apart after just one terrorist attack, not even on a scale as this. Defying them is no accomplisment really, since anyone would have predicted that and any developed (and even most less developed countries) would have done the same thing.

You are really eating everything up that Bush is saying, don't you? Don't you EVER question your leaders, and what they are saying? Did you honestly expect that a developed country would fall apart after a terrorist attack?

Examples: Israel, Spain, UK, etc

	12-02-2002 23:50									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus No country would fall apart after just one terrorist attack, not even on a scale as this. Defying them is no accomplisment really, since anyone would have predicted that and any developed (and even most less developed countries) would have done the same thing. You are really eating everything up that Bush is saying, don't you? Don't you EVER question your leaders, and what they are saying? Did you honestly expect that a developed country would fall apart after a terrorist attack? Examples: Israel, Spain, UK, etc

Mark, if you ever hope an EU state to exist. You are going to have to tap into some kind of European Nationalism....You wont last otherwise.





Btw:Bush didnt feed us anything. While he was underground in Nebraska for 6 hours, the unity started much before.

quote: Defying them is no accomplisment really, since anyone would have predicted that and any developed (and even most less developed countries) would have done the same thing.

Whata load of......

Tell that to Churchill during the Blitz

quote: Did you honestly expect that a developed country would fall apart after a terrorist attack?

No, but they thought we would.

quote: Don't you EVER question your leaders

Yes, but not on days like 9/11! You get what you expect, someone to tell you that justice will be done, Security will be upped, and other soothing things.

	13-02-2002 00:28									#51
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The reason why we should feel patriotic, is that they were raised by this country. They believed in the ideals that our country tries to espouse, they were to willing to die for those beliefs. Aren't there things called Martyrs? Ever heard of 'em? Yeah, well, Americans take it a step back and consider them heroes, and because these people, from our country are heroes, we have a feeling that we're doing something right. It's like when some kid does the right thing in a situation, and the parents, who were there all along, feel a warm glow, because they raised there child to do the right thing.

Oh, and about the brotherhood, community thing. I'd like to see you settle your differences by talking to a machine gun wielding terrorist, I'm sure they'd be real accomodating (at least as long as you firmly believed in whatever they believe).

	13-02-2002 00:40									#52
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First of all I will point out what is obvious.

This story doesn't have anything to do with patriotism. It has to do with bravery. Bravery deserves another thread on its own, I won't discuss that here.

What I'm sensing is that people are proud to live in a country where people do such good things for each other. But I think you will find that anywhere in the world.

Thusly this article does not change my sense of patriotism whatsoever. It does give me more optimism in the goodness of humans. Most of the time I believe we deserve to go extinct by our actions. And I believe human extinction will happen within 10,000 years. But that is another subject entirely .

more later...

	13-02-2002 00:56									#53
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*shocking admission time*

9/11 hasn't changed my amount of patriotism whatsoever. I don't get it. I am perplexed by the rise in patriotism. Why wasn't this here before? Do thousands of americans need to die in order to enlighten the ignorant masses?

I don't fly a flag on my vehicle, nor do I have one on my house. I do have a little flag metal shoe string holder that goes on my shoe string on my work boots. But I got that for free . Patriotism is something very personal for me, not something I flash around.

Despite what I said above, I believe I am very patriotic. But this has always been the case with me. Not only did I join the military for career opportunities, but I am a big supporter of U.S. military. And I was proud to serve in the U.S. Navy.

I love america. I love the people no matter how dumb and ignorant they may seem. Many of them do have good in their hearts, but it just gets clouded by their appreciation for crap like Britney Spears . I love the land. Yes I love american land more than European land. I have been to Europe. I wasn't impressed. I do believe we should defend our land. You can argue that this land really isn't ours (because it isn't), but we maintain control over it, and I believe we can do the most good with it. But that is another thread entirely.

I live in a beautiful country, with well minded people. They may not be the most enlightened, but they have it where it counts. And I will defend my country. I even considered rejoining the military after 9/11. I'm not sure if they would let an old 28 year old like myself back in . But I wasn't really needed. I would join the army if my country was ever invaded. I'm quite good at firing small arms.

But back to 9/11. I don't understand the need to get overly sentimental about it. Yes we were attacked, and we should act appropiately. We have a right to defend ourselves. But beyond that, I fail to see the need to get hysterical and fanatical about it.

	13-02-2002 01:15									#54
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My heroes are the Red Coss/Crescent people who got murdered by American bombers in Kandahar.

Red Crescent clinic in Kandahar hit, killing 15-25.

'Pre-dawn raid, F-18 drops a 2,000 lb JDAM bomb on the clinic, killing 15-25. The clinic is reduced to a mangled mess of iron and concrete [photo]. Reported in : DAWN, the Times, the Independent, the Guardian, Reuters, and Agence France Presse '

http://www.cursor.org/stories/civilian_deaths.htm

	13-02-2002 01:18									#55
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It's tragic, but they knew the risks going to a war torn country.

Tell me this, what is the difference of these red cross workers dying from american gun fire, or from Taliban gun fire?

There is no difference except that it gives Europeans the right to b!tch and complain.

I'm tired of Europeans acting so high and mighty like their sh!t doesn't stink.

There are times I wish a European nation was attacked, and we could complain how you defend your nation.

	13-02-2002 02:06									#56
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I mentioned that on some other thread by making a reference to the SuperBowl halftime show when the list of 3000 Sept. 11 victims flashed behind U2 while they played "Where the Streets Have No Name", something which concerned me somewhat. While I certainly don't have a problem about people expressing their care and sympathy towards the many affected by said event, the integration of a mourning process into a huge party like the SuperBowl seems pretty ackward to this European.

	13-02-2002 02:31									#57
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I don't think many Americans appreciated that particular gesture. In fact, on ESPN, a columnist tackled that particular issue. We all know that the Halftime wasn't going to be watched anyway, what with Fear Factor showing us 6 Playmates. At once.

	13-02-2002 22:11									#58
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quote: There are times I wish a European nation was attacked

tasteless

	13-02-2002 22:35									#59
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No more than the drivel you spew.

quote: If the firemen had been Europeans would you stop all your anti-EU trolling?

If the US saved Europe would you stop your anti-US trolling? Oh wait, we did, and you haven't.

	13-02-2002 22:47									#60
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deleted, double post