13-02-2002 22:49									#61
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quote: Originally posted by MacTBone Yeah, well, Americans take it a step back and consider them heroes, and because these people, from our country are heroes, we have a feeling that we're doing something right. It's like when some kid does the right thing in a situation, and the parents, who were there all along, feel a warm glow, because they raised there child to do the right thing.

This attitude bugs me. The logic is: These incredibly brave policemen are heros and they're American. MacTBone is American so he, and other Americans, are going to take credit for their heroic deed. That's pure BS. You didn't do something right. These policemen were the ones that acted with courage.

The courage of these policemen did not come from their nationality.

Last year, a couple of off-duty Hong Kong cops tried to save some people who were drowning in the ocean. One of the cops died. Does this give all Hong Kong residents the right to feel patriotic about the cops' action. No.

	13-02-2002 22:54									#62
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I agree it's tasteless, but the underlying point is valid.

Plenty of people sit on their asses from the comfort of their computers and nitpick every alleged or actual error, every policy decision, every military decision, every policy decision, etc.

There is a valid question in there as to how different the attitudes and responses would be if the attacks were a bit closer to home.

	13-02-2002 22:54									#63
	Tired of ads?

If the US saved Europe would you stop your anti-US trolling? Oh wait, we did, and you haven't.

And if anything is trolling, it's got to be the constant repetition that the Europeans should be eternally grateful. Why don't you instead add something new to the endless "debate" by adressing his actual point - this being that you cannot automatically attribute the actions of individuals to whichever group they happen to belong to.

	13-02-2002 23:38									#64
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Why should I be ashamed for being patriotic?

Don't you ever root for a sport team? Don't you ever have people tell you your team sucks? Don't you defend your team? Don't you bask in the glory when your team wins?

	13-02-2002 23:55									#65
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Sh*t Imran, you know they'll just mock it.

You are ****ing parano ! What funny in that ? Do you **** believe that only American can be ****ing courageous ?

Stop this ****ing bullshit please.

	14-02-2002 00:03									#66
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quote: No more than the drivel you spew. I agree it's tasteless, but the underlying point is valid.

Fine. I hope the US gets attacked again, so you'll see your tactics to defend your nation aren't working and that they will finally change and Bush won't get re-elected.

^
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Total bullshit of course. But making such comments is allowed apparantly.

	14-02-2002 00:07									#67
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Of course we'll be attacked again.

I've said before there is no way to eliminate terrorism 100%. But I think we have made great progress in afghanistan. Unfortunately there are other nations like Iran and Saudi Arabia which pose a significant problem.

I just don't think Europeans get it. We can't just sit back while all of our buildings get demolished, and parts of cities are made inhabitable by dirty bombs. We have to be proactive, and reduce the threat of serious terrorists attacks. I don't really care about the minor stuff. that is too difficult to stop. But we are talking about attacks with mass casualties and destruction that can be stopped.

	14-02-2002 00:08									#68
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you know this is a deadend.

many european nations have been through far worst situations than that so we feel you are way overeacting and being too self - proud.

on the other hand who can blame you for feeling proud for the heroic deeds of men and women of america under these trying times and say so.

it is a deadend.

	14-02-2002 00:15									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Fine. I hope the US gets attacked again, so you'll see your tactics to defend your nation aren't working and that they will finally change and Bush won't get re-elected. ^ || || || Total bullshit of course. But making such comments is allowed apparantly.

Yes, expression of opinion is allowed within pretty broad limits.

	14-02-2002 00:25									#70
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quote: If the US saved Europe would you stop your anti-US trolling? Oh wait, we did, and you haven't.

Really you think USA saved Europe?.
1) Europe has passed many bloody wars (some really bloody)during the last milleniums (most of that you can imagine ). Now a raw country comes and saves us? You do not believe that you exaggerate a bit?.
2) If you refer to the second world war, USA had a secondary role in the defeat of Germany, they were RUSSIANS (European) those who defeat Germany (European also, you did not know it?).
3) If you insist on historical questions, the independence of USA had never been possible without the military help of France or the economic help of Spain (very important but "forgot" by the government USA for political reasons).
4) On the other hand you also are European (Extremely vulgar but European) are necessary many centuries in order that really a country develop an own civilization.
5) "Honor your father and your mother", without Europe USA would not even exist. So, close your mouth.

	14-02-2002 00:32									#71
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat I agree it's tasteless, but the underlying point is valid. Plenty of people sit on their asses from the comfort of their computers and nitpick every alleged or actual error, every policy decision, every military decision, every policy decision, etc. There is a valid question in there as to how different the attitudes and responses would be if the attacks were a bit closer to home.

MtG, believe it or not, I do see your point. Yes, really.

However, there are at least three reasons I don´t agree:

1) You always, quite consistently, say that morality has no place in international politics. You fail to see, however, that this line of thought justifies Bin Laden as well. The way you draw the line is entirely subjective. ***Note: Very important point!***

2) The Bush government does abuse 9/11 to justify possible aggressions against countries that have absolutely nothing to do with it (Iraq, Iran, North Korea). ***EXTREMELY important point!!***

3) There are people, believe it or not, who doubt the entire official story about 9/11; some of them are Americans.

http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/911page.htm

They create more than enough doubt for me to want to see some *proof* for the official version. Depending upon the word of George Bush, who is, according to some Americans, a suspect, is simply not enough. ***DECISIVE point, if there is even a 1% chance that it´s the guilty, who direct the American war effort.***

	14-02-2002 01:30									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: If the firemen had been Europeans would you stop all your anti-EU trolling? If the US saved Europe would you stop your anti-US trolling? Oh wait, we did, and you haven't.

When was that then? I must have missed it.

It seems like you lot have learned nothing from the WTC attacks