15-02-2002 02:14									#1
	Is this even close to what you wanted for 'Stacked Movement'? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

For me, it is not!

This 'improvement' is sorely lacking many worthwhile uses, to be able to move ONLY exact like units don’t really impress me. The benefit of such a feature is on the right track, but certainly well beneath my expectations of 'stacked movement.' I'm sincerely hoping that this 'fix'/'improvement' is just a stop gap measure, and that in order to implement a stacked movement order along the lines that most of us were expecting (stacked movement that does not discriminate against unit type or movement rate) for this highly requested feature. I already returned Civ 3 to my place of purchase and this patch does little to persuade me to give it another chance, as of yet, though I'm still hopeful that the future will bring a more balanced and genuinely fun (not tedious) game play.

Perhaps it may take some serious code retrofitting to get this kind of feature implemented. Any comment on Firaxis' part to allude to the fact that this concept is both recognized as a highly desired feature and that they are indeed working on such an improvement would go far in my mind as whether to wait for future Civ 3 editions to purchase (that would supposedly have said proposed feature.) If confirmed, I would then go ahead and re-purchase the game now as the 'improvement' would be forthcoming and implemented in a future patch, assuming, of course, it would be without further cost to me.

A-not-so-thrilled-fan

	15-02-2002 02:41									#2
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I like it much better this way than the other way. This way I can move my military units like horses all away and keep my group such as the spearmen all fortified.

	15-02-2002 02:55									#3
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This is exactly the way some would like it, however.

	15-02-2002 03:05									#4
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It's good enough for me.

	15-02-2002 03:18									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Perhaps you should have made this a poll.

A yes from here.

	15-02-2002 03:20									#6
	I't appropriate Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

This system is completely appropriate for the game we have. Asking for stack fignthing and more complex command simply does not fit with the game as is. Whtther you wan the game to be significantly idfferent is another issue.

	15-02-2002 03:20									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

This is not perfect, but much much much better.

	15-02-2002 03:27									#8
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It fits perfectly with my style of play, wherein I use workers heavily in distinct brigades (one for grassland, plains, and desert; one for hills and forest, and one for mountains) and wherein I stockpile my arsenals in fortified armories.

	15-02-2002 03:37									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Is this even close to what you wanted for 'Stacked Movement'?

Of course not, but under the circumstances...well, you take what you can get. Good enough for the 2nd patch.

	15-02-2002 04:12									#10
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Its a very small step.

	15-02-2002 04:19									#11
	hummm Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I like it actually... the only improvement that I would ask for would be that it would work for units with the same movement rate. I can see that as being a programatically simple fix. I can definitely understand why they wouldn't want to set up something like multiple movement rate stacks.

	16-02-2002 04:33									#12
	Re: I't appropriate Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by GePap This system is completely appropriate for the game we have. Asking for stack fignthing and more complex command simply does not fit with the game as is. Whtther you wan the game to be significantly idfferent is another issue.

Where exactly did I say I wanted 'stacked fighting'? I ONLY want the ability to be able to stack groups of units that naturally complement each other and move them with a single command to another place on the map. I did not say I wanted to be able to attack with them or even deffend with them in some sort of stacked combat ala CTP!

Example: I want to be able to move a group of rifflemen and cannons together, since the cannons provide the firepower and the rifflemen provide the protection. What's so wrong in asking for this type of feature? I wouldn't even mind if my 'group of stacked units' could only move the number of spaces equal to the least mobile unit, as long as they stayed together, and I didn't have to issue an order for each seperate unit type every time I wanted to issue orders to this group of units.

Come on Firaxis, I know you can do this, can't you? Tell me if it's not possible at all, and I'll quit asking for this to be implemented. If not, then, I guess, I'll just have to find a game that is more suitable to my taste. Civ 3 has promise, but isn't quite there yet. As I've said previously, you are on the right track, just throw me a frickin' bone will ya?

	16-02-2002 04:53									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

There is no denying that it is a BIG improvement over what we had before, but, I still wish we had CTP2 style stacking and army formation. In CTP2 you can for an army out of mixed units, you don't need any special leaders, and your army can have between two and 12 units. Also your units become much more effective if you use combined arms rather then all just oone type of unit.
This makes the game more realistic and more enjoyable.

	16-02-2002 04:57									#14
	Put an end to popups!

Moving 20 cannon and 10 riflemen before patch: 60+ keystrokes/clicks.

Moving 20 cannon and 10 riflemen post patch: 4 keystrokes/clicks.

Moving 20 cavalry, which is generally a better fighting force anyways (even with reduced retreat ability): 2 keystrokes/clicks.

	16-02-2002 04:59									#15
	Tired of ads?

Yes.

	16-02-2002 05:00									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Random Passerby Moving 20 cannon and 10 riflemen before patch: 60+ keystrokes/clicks. Moving 20 cannon and 10 riflemen post patch: 4 keystrokes/clicks. Moving 20 cavalry, which is generally a better fighting force anyways (even with reduced retreat ability): 2 keystrokes/clicks.

Moving a stack of units with one order: Priceless

	16-02-2002 05:32									#17
	Remove this text

It's a pretty good improvement I reckon. It just boggles the mind why it wasn't included from the original release though - obvious conclusion being that the end game was never play tested.

	16-02-2002 05:41									#18
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Haven't had much reason to use it yet. But I guess it'll be alright.

	16-02-2002 05:47									#19
	Re: Is this even close to what you wanted for 'Stacked Movement'? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by bigfree1 For me, it is not! This 'improvement' is sorely lacking many worthwhile uses, to be able to move ONLY exact like units don’t really impress me. The benefit of such a feature is on the right track, but certainly well beneath my expectations of 'stacked movement.' I'm sincerely hoping that this 'fix'/'improvement' is just a stop gap measure, and that in order to implement a stacked movement order along the lines that most of us were expecting (stacked movement that does not discriminate against unit type or movement rate) for this highly requested feature. I already returned Civ 3 to my place of purchase and this patch does little to persuade me to give it another chance, as of yet, though I'm still hopeful that the future will bring a more balanced and genuinely fun (not tedious) game play. Perhaps it may take some serious code retrofitting to get this kind of feature implemented. Any comment on Firaxis' part to allude to the fact that this concept is both recognized as a highly desired feature and that they are indeed working on such an improvement would go far in my mind as whether to wait for future Civ 3 editions to purchase (that would supposedly have said proposed feature.) If confirmed, I would then go ahead and re-purchase the game now as the 'improvement' would be forthcoming and implemented in a future patch, assuming, of course, it would be without further cost to me. A-not-so-thrilled-fan

Let me get this straight. You returned the game awhile ago, so you haven't even tried the new patch. Is this how I'm reading your post?

	16-02-2002 06:16									#20
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Nobody except unemployed game'o'holics have yet had a chance to really explore the patch. Thats why there have been a lot of questions asked (and often answered) here on Apolyton since we got the notes. We have now been given a lot of detail about it from which to form our opinions.

I know enough about it to not want to download it because I feel the changes in 1.17 that I like have yet to outweigh the changes and existing mechanisms I dislike. Bigfree1 obviously feels similarly. Yin26 is another prominent poster who acknowledges he played 3.5 games a while ago and abandoned Civ III. We all have a perfect right to make our case for continued improvements here.

I know I was disappointed when stacked movement turned out to be working this way too. Having permanent groupings of mixed units would be much more useful for the way I play the game. Bigfree made the case lucidly and without any derogatory or inflamatory remarks. Something we could do with more of on this site.

	16-02-2002 06:27									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

From what I've heard it's not bad. Could have saved me hours if it was in the original release though.

	16-02-2002 06:32									#22
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold We all have a perfect right to make our case for continued improvements here.

Certainly you have a right, but not much in the way of credibilty as I see it.

	16-02-2002 06:41									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Why not?

	16-02-2002 06:55									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by DrFell Why not?

How much credibility would I have if I went on about how crappy caviar tastes, if I've never tried it? None.

	16-02-2002 06:59									#25
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I've played all civ versions (including 3) extensively. I guess I get a license to whinge.

	16-02-2002 07:02									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ihave played all 3 versions plus all their variations. So I guess that gives me the right to whine about whiners.

	16-02-2002 07:03									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by DrFell I've played all civ versions (including 3) extensively. I guess I get a license to whinge.

Try the changes. If you still don't like it, then you have a right to say they suck. Until then, you don't have a leg to stand on IMO.

	16-02-2002 07:03									#28
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Not on my forum it doesn't

	16-02-2002 07:04									#29
	Suffering from ads?

Who's forum?

	16-02-2002 07:06									#30
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Willem Try the changes. If you still don't like it, then you have a right to say they suck. Until then, you don't have a leg to stand on IMO.

Admitedly they are improving on the game, but the ages system and several other things still suck in my opinion, I posted a thread on it awhile back right now I don't have time to go through all the points, but I feel I got a pretty big leg to stand on indeed. Or lots of small legs.