15-02-2002 05:02									#1
	Should Firaxis now work on Patches or an XP??? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Right, I saw a thread earlier reffering to ideas for 1.18, Well I was thinking that now might the time to look at producing an XP...

I think most of people minor problems (well, some of us regarded them as major but i mean minor in a programming sense) have been fixed, and I cant see loads left to do with Patches.

But there are Some Major things that could go into an XP that perhaps it's time for Firaxis to start...

Although I payed the full price for the Original , I'd be Happy to pay another £15-£20 for an XP with some great new features..

Multiplayer .. More Techs,Units and Improvements spring to mind...

	15-02-2002 05:39									#2
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when the xp is out, I will probably go download it somewhere, because it is not worth the $$$ to buy. This is my opinion right now. If they put out a few more patches, and take good care of the game itself, I might change my mind.

	15-02-2002 05:42									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Considering that the game as is constitutes nothing more than a glorified BETA, I'd vote for actually fixing it first. Of course, it won't work that way. Expect to pay more money soon for BETA+.

Your only hope to get your money's worth is to expect the true release of Civ3 late this year. Yes, by then a decent game might have been produced.

	15-02-2002 09:03									#4
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Your only hope to get your money's worth is to expect the true release of Civ3 late this year. Yes, by then a decent game might have been produced.

Gee... the last time somebody did a poll on "getting your money's worth".. it would seem that a majority of the people would disagree with you.

	15-02-2002 09:20									#5
	Remove this text

Ming: fresh on the scene. Now with extra sass!

	15-02-2002 09:24									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yeah, many people are easily pleased. If you are an easily pleased person, buy the beta. I've said that from Day 1.

	15-02-2002 10:10									#7
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 Yeah, many people are easily pleased.

And some people are never pleased...
I get enjoyment from the game. Is it perfect... no. Does it need work... sure... and they are doing it... yes.
So why should I wait. I've bought many more games that have given me less value for my money.

	15-02-2002 10:20									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: I've bought many more games that have given me less value for my money.

With standards like that, even Firaxis can deliver!

By the way, I *am* pleased with SimGolf. A game Sid actually made.

	15-02-2002 10:47									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I REFUSE REFUSE REFUSE to buy an expansion pack if the original game is not sufficiently patched. That means it has to have a better map editor which will HAVE to include civ-specific player starting locations. If they release an expansion before this is done, then I know it will be have to be something coming out of someone's arse.

	15-02-2002 10:58									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

IMHO, they should patch in the editor they're working on before an XP

	15-02-2002 20:09									#11
	Support Apolyton

It depends, of course, on how much Firaxis are prepared to release in a free patch as opposed to a pay-for XP.

Given that we'll likely have to pay extra for Multiplayer and proper scenario support (with events) then I suppose I must reluctantly back an XP at this point, since I see little more mileage in small patches.

But I'm not sure we shouldn't have had these things in the first place, and included in the price, as Yin keeps on (and on and on ) reminding us, and so ought by rights to have them in a free mega-patch.

	15-02-2002 20:15									#12
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I think Yin is talking out of his arse, Civ III has problems sure, it's not PERFECT but I'm very satisfied with the game especially folllowing the patches. Firaxis have fixed nearly every minor problem in the game IMO, and i feel it's now the time to start rolling some big features into an XP.

As ming says, Some people are never pleased, and I'm not usually a 'whine at the whiners' type either.

	24-02-2002 06:46									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

well , it still aint working good , so what would they make from the XP ?


have a nice day

	24-02-2002 07:28									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Rothy: As I said, Civ3 was targetted at people with rather low standards. You fit the profile.

	24-02-2002 08:13									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Rothy: As I said, Civ3 was targetted at people with rather low standards. You fit the profile.

What was that you said once, about not attacking people unless they attack you first? I guess that attitude doesn't fit the mood of the day.

PS, Sorry, but just for that you are now on my ignore list.

	24-02-2002 08:54									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Fact 1: Saying that I am talking out of my ass is an attack.

Fact 2: Saying that people with rather low standards are more likely to enjoy Civ3 and that Firaxis knowingly released an inferior product in order to meet deadlines is NOT an attack.

Fact 3: If you can't read properly, I'm glad to be on your ignore list. Saves me time.

Fact 4: You seem also to have rather low standards for computer games. Thus, Civ3 in its current state is a good fit for you. Enjoy it.

	24-02-2002 09:01									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I agree with yin26. Civ3 in the state that it was released was nothing more than a beta. The patches fixed some problems but not all of them.
If they ever released a public beta, this game would be much better. But, maybe Firaxis know people will get disappointed and refuse to buy their game once they play the beta, so, they decided not to do that.

	24-02-2002 10:20									#18
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: I think Yin is talking out of his arse

Sorry but it is automatically implied that Yin is talking out of his ass, so there is no need to specify that. ....Just kidding.

	24-02-2002 13:17									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

You know what I find most annoying? People who seem to think that because they aren't satisfied with something, that it sucks. It's not like Firaxis or Sid Meier owes us anything. They've obviously worked very hard on this game. Criticizing the game is one thing, but to make the universal judgement that it is bad based on your own opinion of it is presumptuous at best. What's worse is criticizing people's tastes and standards because of it. It's rude and disrespectful.

I have very specific tastes when it comes to games. I'm not "easily pleased," but I do not presume to make judgements on the quality of the game based on whether or not I like it. If you don't like it, don't play it. You don't have to spend time here bringing everyone else down because of it. I'm not saying you don't have the right to complain, but you're not just complaining, your being rude and disrespectful.

Anyway, as far as XP patches go, what would be the purpose? Civ 3 runs fine in XP for me. On that note, what is wrong with everyone and XP... I've had nary a problem with it since I installed it and am very happy with it, yet just about everyone else I talk to has some kind of sorted tale about how XP has this or that problem...

Anyway, carry on

	24-02-2002 13:21									#20
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

XP=Expansion pack.

Don't feel foolish. That's a misunderstanding I've seen on two other boards in the last four months.

	24-02-2002 14:17									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Everyone:

It's my understanding that TPTB are focusing on the Civ III editor right now. Is that a mistaken belief?

CYBERAmazon

	24-02-2002 18:34									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: What's worse is criticizing people's tastes and standards because of it. It's rude and disrespectful.

Hey, if people here can say that I'll 'never be pleased blah blah blah,' I find it an even message to say: "Some of you here are TOO EASILY pleased." Missing/broken editor, missing MP, and a host of horridly-implemented or unexplained 'features' squarely puts Civ3 in the beta category.

To not admit that is to put yourself in the 'too easily pleased' category. If that bothers you, hang around. You're scheduled to get a whole lot more bothered before the year is out.

	24-02-2002 20:18									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I don't know, frankly. If the XP adds nothing but multiplayer and the ability to create scenarios, I'm definitely not buying it. Except if I, miracly, get a good connection.

If XP has some SP additions, I will surely buy it.

	24-02-2002 22:10									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Ok Yin, perhaps saying that you were 'talking out of your arse' was a little strong, but I am quite annoyed that Firaxis release what was , IMO a good game with some great new ideas. It gets slaughtered for it's faults (which there were many of to start with), with it's patches it solves MANY of the things people were complaining about, but people still seem completely unsatisfied.

and back on topic, if Firaxis are working on an editor that is also a very good cause.

As for Easily pleased, I rarely purchase computer games because i am so uneasily pleased, many of those games which i have bought have lasted little over a few hours of Gameplay (CTP for an example). Perhaps i find Civ III a better product because i havent been 'spoilt' with SMAC and i didnt overplay Civ II... I dont know.

	24-02-2002 22:49									#25
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

To bring the conversation away from the easily pleasing thing and back to the xp (hell, I'm easily pleased with a beer in one hand and a chick in the other, ain't that hard) I can confidently say that patches always continue for games for well over a year, no matter what the follow up program of the company is, just look at SMAC or Starcraft. That said, if the XP includes more options on the diplmacy (ie. the ones they had in SMAC but left out here), a more usable UN like SMAC, and a more complex gov system with sub-parts like in SMAC, I WILL buy it. If not... well... what's the point?

Is it coincidence that I mention SMAC so much? Could it be that (gasp) it was more developed? You decide!!!

	25-02-2002 00:40									#26
	Got spare money?

Well, I think an expansion pack makes some sense... I mean, I'm not a game expert like some people, but it seems to me that the patches are only fixing minute details to the game. A lot of the MAJOR necessary changes haven't been addressed. Might not an expansion pack be able to address that?

Frankly, the only thing that I demand at this point is a proper Editor.... and with that Editor I ABSOLUTELY MUST have some sort of scripting language or another macro language for events. Even if I couldn't do a historical scenario, I would like to be able to put events in the regular game that can accomplish those things that I find the game as it is unable to provide. And I will only get that from an expansion pack.

	25-02-2002 03:57									#27
	Inflate your Upload Space

Rothy: No worries. You know, some elements of the game are more important to some people than others. I understand that. I think that many of the 'big' improvements we hard to please guys want will be part of the x-pack ... and that will fuel a whole new round of complaints. But some of us prepared for that eventuality and waited before buying. No big deal. Come Gold Edition, Civ3 might please *even* the hard to please crowd, but if it doesn't, no big deal there, either.

	25-02-2002 04:17									#28
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Fix the game. I don't get where's the doubt. If it needs fixes, it's because it's not working right. If it's not working right, it's not pleasing its customers!

I think it's quite simple to see it...
Unless everybody is pleased with v.1.17! Which the I ask why the thread of things to be included in v1.18...

	25-02-2002 04:45									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Firaxis should definitely work on a patch : to enhance stacked movement (some ideas on these forums are intelligent, easy in terms of gameplay and probably implementable).
To make the editor what it has to be for the standard, scenarioless version : at least, all rules should be easily tweakable, and everything should be addable/deletable (buildings, units etc., not only govs.)
I hope there will also be free basic tools (like in Civ2 when it was released) to build scenarios : placing civ-specific starting points, placing and modifying cities and units etc. i hold the promises before the releases. I would understand that something as a macro language comes into an expansion though.

	25-02-2002 05:31									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

WHen I think about it, what Firaxis have done makes sense, they realease a game which is the 'bare bones', and then the hardcore fans can buy an Expansion Pack.

In Such a pack it would be great to see :-

Multiplayer
REAL Stacked Movement and Combat
More Techs!,More Units,Improvements and Wonders...
Scenarios, with a good Editor
More Civ's

If they did this, I'd happily pay a good £20 for this.

I think Civ III is a little short when it comes to Technologies and this ought to be enhanced in an XP, There no shortage of ideas.