11-08-2000 02:33									#31
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I agree DarkCloud. I'd say that Civ is holy. Do not make it RTSS. (Last S for shit). Though RTS is not always RTSS. Make other games that are RTS. And of course, the only thing that matters is to make Civ3 the magic game.
[This message has been edited by LightEning (edited August 10, 2000).]

	11-08-2000 10:08									#32
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I have an idea: SimCiv


A real time game where all you get to do is to make the top level decisions. If you want an explorer to explore, you don't get to direct the unit's every move. All you can do is either:

[*]point out a direction; or
[*]select a destination
[/list]

Cities grow by a set of rules and things just sort of happen.


That could be fun
[This message has been edited by Urban Ranger (edited August 11, 2000).]

	11-08-2000 23:03									#33
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Pretty good idea Urban Ranger.

Sim Civ or Civilization Manager or whatever it would be called could also be run in the way Shogun: Total War is to prevent tank rushes and such.

	12-08-2000 00:04									#34
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Urban Ranger-

So what about 'majesty' It could have been done better, look at Seven Kingdoms 2 or Shogun: Total War. Civ RTS would be better than all of those if we submit ideas instead of criticisms.
Who's with me?

	12-08-2000 10:29									#35
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My first trip here in yonks, and what do I see? Can it be? RTS civ3?!

Frankly, my opinion is simple.

*RTS games are good, almost as good TBS.
*But it would be impossible to adapt civ3 into an RTS without having to change EVERYTHING.
*Then it wouldn't be Civ3 anymore. So you might as well be playing just another RTS game.

Good to be back, but unfortunately I won't be able to post as frequently as I used to

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	13-08-2000 17:29									#36
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Timed Turns.

Case Closed.

why?...having 100days passing though my fingers per secound is even more stupid the the Turn based emulation of time. Besides, it would become unplayable as you expand (either not enough time for late game micro or long and boring early game waiting for that settler to be build....)

The old TBS system is HELL for mutiplayer. Timed turns in MP and customlized automation should solve most of the problem and all is happy.

	13-08-2000 22:15									#37
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RTS Civ3? No, I think not.
RTS elements in Civ3? I'm more open to this. I could see the following being fun, even in multiplayer:

1) Extend the length of turns. You could define a turn as a given length of game-time in years. Each player plays until that number of years is up, then the 'turn' is over.

2) Include detailed time controls. My big issue with RTS Civ3 is the lack of micromanagement that would be possible; you'd be too rushed to properly manage the details of your empire. This would be greatly alleviated if you could speed up, slow down and completely pause time at will. This might also make it necessary to include a time limit on how long you can spend in real time for a given turn, in multiplayer games.

Using an idea like this, you'd end up with something of a hybrid; you'd have the turns, you'd have the pace, you'd have the management of a TBS game, with the flowing of action and events that RTS brings to the table as well.

	13-08-2000 22:59									#38
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Hey GORD!

That is precisely what I was talking about in my earlier posts, you could adjust the time of your turns say from 1(slow)-5(humantime)-10(fast)

This would allow for an Age of Empires like system with elements of Seven Kingdoms, Shogun and Majesty thrown in.

Say your building governor or yourself tells your city to build a settler, the settler is built, you send him out to found a city. He encounters an enemy who wants to talk. Flash to diplo screen. You reason out a peace treaty and afterwards found that city.

Meanwhile your first city is building phalanxes in the build que you created or one that the governor created for you. Say the screen looks like this
Build Que
---------
1. Phalanx
2. Phalanx
3. Temple
4. City Walls
5. Settler
6. Chariot

meanwhile you can use a warrior which you built earlier to explore, you create a route by clicking on destanation points and 'viola!' the warrior explores.

Any Questions? Comments? Ideas (This would be best. All I get are comments, ideas would help more.)

Thank You.

	14-08-2000 20:31									#40
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Well that's a good idea Ultra, however what I propose is two completely different games.

What you propose would make the developement for Civ III longer than normal and would raise prices.

So I would rather have two different games.

	14-08-2000 23:11									#41
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DarkCloud:
So your saying that a few Multiplayer tweaks to a more RTS game will take longer to develop than 2 TOTALLY different games!!

And your also saying that a TBS and RTS Civ 3 will cost less than 1 hybrid Civ 3, are you crazy. 2 games are more expensive than 1.

DarkCloud, I think you should lay off the drink.

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	15-08-2000 05:59									#42
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Oh my god, that's tragic!! I refused to even take a look on this thread for quite a time but it seems that the ill-minded heresy of RTC gains followers.
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
I like RT-games, before I bought Civ2 I played a lot of AoK.
I don't mean a RT-game that covers 6000 years of history is impossible or would be no fun, but I like Civ, because I can plan and accord movement and management properly.
In RT-Civ, complexity would suffer. In Civ you're constructing a society, RT makes it more tactical, you need more the ability of a general than of a ruler.
Sometimes I like playing a general but in Civ I'm the king, the manager.
We came so far with RTB-system, with a RT-Civ much of this development would be lost.

Maybe there should be a second civ in RT for those heretic freaks, but please no hybrid or entirely RT-Civ


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	16-08-2000 00:47									#43
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If the hybird Civ didn't cost more than $50 dollars the company would probably lose money.

However, if you priced TBS Civ at $50 and RTS Civ at $50 the company would make money and Civ fans would have two (hopefully) great games to play.

Wernazuma-

If you read previous posts the game would be a mix of general/leader of a civilization.

You could automate one or the other. Say you don't want to fight, make the AI do it for you. It will fight itself such as it already does in Age of Empires etc.

Hmm. Seems like everyone on this forum has post in here at least once.

	16-08-2000 06:21									#44
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I'm against the RTS game based on Civ. I don't think I'll ever buy another RTS game. I hate them all, frankly. Just get me my TBS CivIII! It doesn't even have to be multi-player (never really played mp anyway).

	16-08-2000 10:16									#45
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RTS would be awesome it's not imposible Imperium galactica 2 was real time and the micro managment was not that hard cause you could slow game speed down alot something like that could work for civ3 + real time batles are awesome you could like group units in to armys that you'd have to balance and go to a seperate screen like in imp-gal-2 then battlefield tactics would be important shogun total war had great AI they could do something like that.

	16-08-2000 12:15									#46
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It would probably cost too much and take too long (heh, the game's already been pushed back to 2002) to implement even just RTS elements into Civ3. So Firaxis should just leave it to you guys who for some reason, actually like RTS , to develop your own civ3 clone. There's many group all over the 'net who are designing their own civ-clone ---> join one and suggest they go RTS.

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	20-08-2000 02:50									#47
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Sorry for the misunderstanding, Talon, I did not mean real-time battles I mean a real-time game based like the regular civ where the armies meet and the battle is predetermined. A real-time battle would take far too long.

	24-08-2000 04:57									#48
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1. I think an RTS CIV III could be a suicide move from Firaxis. The RTS genre is full, even now. Anyway there is a game, called Empire Earth, which will be something like an RTS CIV out in sometimes 2001 or 2002. Just in time to compete with a RTS CIV game.

2. Firaxis is a small company. They cannot risk an unsuccesfull product. IMHO CIVIII will contain a lot of evoluntionary and nothing revolutionary compare with CIVI, CIVII or SMAC. ( I think CIVIII will get nice 3D graphics, better diplomacy, borders, and hopefully better AI, and a few new stuff to sell the product. So you can say: Yeah this is great! )

Blade
[This message has been edited by Blade Runner (edited August 23, 2000).]

	28-08-2000 04:30									#49
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Yes, I have heard about Empire Earth and I believe a RTS Civ should use that game as a model in their wars so they do not turn into tank rushes.

If civ III comes out and becomes a success then what will stop Firaxis from making a RTS CIV that incorportates all the elements I have been speaking of to make it a game better than Age of Empires, better than Warcraft II, and even better than Shogun and Empire Earth.

The trend these days in RTS games is to incorportate more TBS civ-managing games. Look at Shogun, look at Seven Kingdoms, this is the future for civ.
Two games for every installment.
Civ IV for the turn-based hardcore fans
Civ RTS II for the real-time casual fans

Both would sell well because the games, though alike would be different from each other and radically different from all the other games on the market because of their though, depth, and detail.

MY GOSH NO Civ III better not! have 3D graphics. I have an accellerator but part of the glory of Civ is the ability to customise your own units. I will still buy the game but I may not support it as much as I do civ II.

A CIV RTS game might 'need' 3D graphics as they say, but look at Railroad Tycoon II's graphics, they look fine and would be great for a Civ III or civ RTS and they can be easily made by fans for the idea behind RRTII's graphics is taking a picture of a model and developing it into a -gif and likewise.

-Food for thought

	30-08-2000 07:00									#50
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RTS Ideas so far:

-It would work incorporating elements from
1. Seven Kingdoms II
2. Shogun: Total War
3. Age of Empires

-Graphics would be garnered from
1. Railroad Tycoon II
(Unit and city model graphics; easily editable by the public, but still astetically pleasing)
2. Rollercoaster Tycoon
(Rotating graphics for the map; layered map)

Any other basic model ideas will be accepted.
Come on all you supporters, don't just post once, post your ideas.

	30-08-2000 15:51									#51
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I''m sorry I think a new Civ type game trying to use real time would be a good thing. Supremacy was not badly done that way, just needed better graphics and options.

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	03-09-2000 02:54									#52
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Deathwalker

I assume that you mean Star Wars Supremacy*?

*Star Wars Rebellion in the U.S.

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	08-10-2000 07:06									#53
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*BUMP*
A good read for the newbies: Post your ideas here:

	08-10-2000 07:34									#54
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Well, it looks like we'll get a chance to see what an RTS Civ-type game looks like -- check out Empire Earth (www.empireearth.com).

	08-10-2000 08:31									#55
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I still am aganst it because you could only focus on a small area at a time.

TO ALL PEOPLE WHO AGREE: You will find an unhappy Armor column approaching your capital with the Chrisonian flag flying high...

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	09-10-2000 11:41									#56
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wow!!! thanks for posting that empire earth link.

it's amazing!! how on earth is civ3 going to top this?? interesting!!!

I also downloaded the 20meg movie, best game movie I have ever seen, ever.

	09-10-2000 11:45									#57
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yknow what the real problem here is ppl?

most of you are all focused on the thought that the land is too small

well shouldn't the land be massive, and I mean MASSIVE?

I would love that..really would..opens up so many more possibilties.

	09-10-2000 14:09									#58
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Yes I meant "Star Wars Supremacy" I think it should never be used for Civ, but I think that it would be an interesting idea to make a civ type game this way. This is also added to by the fact that thought the so called real time games are called Strategy games, they only ever concentrate on a single battle field or area you can never build up an entire empire. Supremacy was the only game to attempt this and I think it has promise.

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	10-10-2000 01:50									#59
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Hey, if you guys want to put that kind of strain on yourselves, then by all means insist on an additional RTS game. Don't you think it will be a little difficult to manage dozens of cities and units in Real Time? And thats just in the middle years. I dont think I could manage like that. I would basically have to do one small portion at a time, it would become far too frustrating since enemies could be coming from all around.

And how would you limit aircraft? If there are no turns, what keeps planes from crashing? How would tax collecting be done? I'll spare you from the rest of the list in order to be concise. I just don't know how all of these changes can be made, and I fail to see how the game would benefit.

	11-10-2000 06:04									#60
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If the AI would have to be so good as to be able to run 95% of your empire at a time because you can only run 5%, what is the point?
Where is the fun in helping a little while the AI plays most of the game for you?

Civ 3 RTS- Theoretically possible, but with issues and it doesn't add much if at all to gameplay.
Simultaneous turns would cut multiplayer time by about 6/7.

-Sir Rale Hawkeye
"Never laugh at live dragons"