26-02-2002 08:29									#61
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quote: Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior Don't forget we have better than sinking ecologist ships : Eat cheese, frogs and snails, drink wine, sing songs, pretending to be more cultural advanced, and do sex with person of other sex

So the typical Frenchman is an avid lover, a philosopher, a connaisseur of fine wine and fine dining, and also a hired thug who beats up on defenceless activists, but who runs away if he so much as smells Bratwurst in the air?

Sounds good to me.

	26-02-2002 08:31									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse We show up at all America's wars and what thanks do we get

British generals are famed for fighting to the last Australian.

	26-02-2002 08:33									#63
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Actually, France fought quite valliantly (to a point) against the Germans at the start of World War II, and came close to stopping them completely on a couple of occasions.

At the beginning of the invasion of Poland, France made a very successful incursion into Germany to probe defenses. Unfortunately, The task force was, for whatever reason, ordered to pull out before they could do any real damage. By the time the French were ready to move again, German Panzer and infantry divisions had already redeployed along the border.

During the invasion of France, there was another battle at which, in conjunction with the British Expeditionary Force, the French again nearly halted the Germans. Unfortunately, name and details escape me at the moment.

	26-02-2002 08:35									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Kirnwaffen During the invasion of France, there was another battle at which, in conjunction with the British Expeditionary Force, the French again nearly halted the Germans. Unfortunately, name and details escape me at the moment.

Arras.

	26-02-2002 08:38									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse We show up at all America's wars and what thanks do we get

Are you counting Mel Gibson in the American revolution, of those few Aussies who show out in the 1776 & 1812 wars, on the evil British side.

	26-02-2002 08:38									#66
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Were you formerly known as Sikander, or is that entirely a product of a deranged mind?

	26-02-2002 08:40									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola Are you counting Mel Gibson in the American revolution, of those few Aussies who show out in the 1776 & 1812 wars, on the evil British side.

There were aussies in 1776? Cook only discovered the place in 1770, and IIRC there were no colonists there until the end of the century.

	26-02-2002 08:44									#68
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse So the typical Frenchman is an avid lover, a philosopher, a connaisseur of fine wine and fine dining, and also a hired thug who beats up on defenceless activists, but who runs away if he so much as smells Bratwurst in the air? Sounds good to me.

You forgot Nuke-testin' in the South Pacific.


Besides, anyone can blow up a Greenpeace ship. It takes a real Navy to use a Amphib to ram it, create such a huge gash it has to pull into a American port, and arrest the Captain.

	26-02-2002 08:45									#69
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Some of the naval brits who pouned our shores and ships likely spent some time there in the early exploration and colonial administration (around 1788 for settlement was it not), before or after those wars.

	26-02-2002 08:50									#70
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The bark Endeavour in which Captain Cook sailed on his famous voyages of exploration now lies on the sea bottom outside Boston harbour (where it was used to enforce a naval blockade).

You bastards

	26-02-2002 08:55									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola They only gave us access and transit because the expected us to get our butts kick like they did. None the less they were instrumental in allowing and supporting the campaign in northern Afghanistan, and with diplomatic efforts.

May I take this as a recognition of Russia's merits? A scanty and unwilling one, but still a recognition.

	26-02-2002 09:03									#72
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You may indeed do so, particularly in the diplomatic field, where they were one of the first to recognized the need for direct military intervention, and were essential for gaining better cooperation from India, Uzbekistan, & Tajikestan.
Edit: *slaps self after tripping over the obvious* And as Sikander points out below, Intelligence.

Last edited by Lefty Scaevola on 26-02-2002 at 09:29

	26-02-2002 09:04									#73
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I expected a better level of knowledge of military history from this bunch, though I'm sure many are sandbagging and taking the opportunity to troll.

Just to show how important France was as a military power in the history of Europe, I would like to point your attention to the fact that much of the military terminology currently in use in Western countries is French in origin. An example being the English / American names for army units of various sizes:

Squad
Platoon
Company
Battery
Battalion
Squadron
Regiment
Brigade
Division
Corps
Army

While the French have not been particularly successful during the last century, much of this has to do with the fact that they started most of their wars on the front lines of the battle, and they were arrayed against the more numerous and excellent German Army.

And thanks to the Russians, whose diplomatic, logistic and intelligence support has been extremely helpful.

A lot of countries have helped us, and I appreciate it. If you feel your country has been left out, speak up. You deserve to be recognized.

	26-02-2002 09:22									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander I expected a better level of knowledge of military history from this bunch, though I'm sure many are sandbagging and taking the opportunity to troll

You're going to deny us our God-given right to mock the French?

Part of the problem with France's military performance in the last 500 years is that they were often on the wrong end of the pointy sticks of Europe's two wunderkind: England, and more recently Germany. The Napoleonic wars were examples of what France could do if unified, an advantage it often lacked. Even the supposedly great king of France Louis XIV lost all but one of the half-dozen wars he engaged in.

	26-02-2002 10:07									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse We show up at all America's wars and what thanks do we get

Why, America will save us when Indonesia invades

In fairness, the Australian governments of the day did beg the US for permission to send Australians to Vietnam and the Gulf, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Howard has done the same in Afganistan.

	26-02-2002 10:09									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Case In fairness, the Australian governments of the day did beg the US for permission to send Australians to Vietnam and the Gulf,

They did?

	26-02-2002 10:11									#77
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quote: British generals are famed for fighting to the last Australian

heh, and canadians!

1/3 of all UK loses, were actually ANZAC loses...(Was that it?).

In africa, they always had Hindu's as Sappers...hehe..

Then they used all those Canadians at Dieppe..what basterds. They knew it would fail...nice "Probe" On churchhill's part. Cost 20,000 Canadian casualties.....

	26-02-2002 10:21									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Case Why, America will save us when Indonesia invades

No, America will not save you. Indonesia will invade peacefully, in a diffusional manner. One day you'll wake up and find out that the Indonesians are the majority. Then a referendum will be held, and Australia will democratically be annexed to Indonesia.

	26-02-2002 10:23									#79
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory heh, and canadians! 1/3 of all UK loses, were actually ANZAC loses...(Was that it?). In africa, they always had Hindu's as Sappers...hehe.. Then they used all those Canadians at Dieppe..what basterds. They knew it would fail...nice "Probe" On churchhill's part. Cost 20,000 Canadian casualties.....

Don't forget Vimy Ridge.

All the other nations were too inept to take it.

Leave it to the canucks...

	26-02-2002 10:27									#80
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Yup...Canadians were a brave, forgotten bunch in WW2.....Fighting for a continent they could of cared to shits about. Of course, when there is the threat of treason for not carrying out ordes...hehe. I guess you have to take that ridge.

	26-02-2002 14:38									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Felch X Also note that even Napoleon wasn't really French. Corsica had only been conquered for a short time before Napoleon was born there. Also, I don't think anybody is really critizing the French for bravery. Their chief problem historically has been an insistence on using ancient and obselete tactics. Thus, battles such as Agincourt and Dien Bien Phu predominate in the public perception of French ineptitude. So in short, France's reputation is mostly because of uninventive leadership.

Right, I'm agree with that. My point of view about militar history of my country :
Napoleon had a great army because he had some good generals (as had Hitler some skilled and young generals). Old aristocratic militar leaders were "fired" or killed.

After Napoleon, high rank militars was again an aristocratic society. And they gain their rank not because of their militar skill, but because their relatives were high rank militars. It is still the case. So they prefere to use old stragegy because they don't know how use their new weapons.

We need a new revolution in France and we need to cut some heads.

	01-03-2002 03:34									#82
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Of course you forgot to thank Russia. *sigh*

Russia's principle contributions have been there "helping" US get bases in central asia (IE permitting it) and providing diplomatic support and weapons to Northern alliance. Russia is a "player" in Afganistan, as are India, Iran, Pakistan, and Uzbekistan. While all have cooperated with the US, they have all pursued their own interests in Afghan. i

	01-03-2002 03:35									#83
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Of course you forgot to thank Russia. *sigh*

Russia's principle contributions have been there "helping" US get bases in central asia (IE permitting it) and providing diplomatic support and weapons to Northern alliance. Russia is a "player" in Afganistan, as are India, Iran, Pakistan, and Uzbekistan. While all have cooperated with the US, they have all pursued their own interests in Afghan. i meant the thread to relate more to those nations which have explicitly allied themselves to the US campaign.

LOTM

	01-03-2002 03:40									#84
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oh gosh, we're debating French military history (BTW, any of you guys aware of a place called Verdun?) and Commonwealth contibutions in WW1 and 2, and how ungrateful the brits are for the Canadians and Aussies, and how ungrateful the Yanks are for the Aussies in Vietnam. I now declare this thread officially hijacked and will start a new one.

LOTM

	01-03-2002 03:43									#85
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Suburb in the soutwest of Montreal? My father grew up there.

Or did you mean the militarily pointless objective the French held onto despite all logic?