25-02-2002 01:43									#1
	war games Increase the size of your Attachments

I'm finding increasingly that civ3 fails to satisfy me in the aspect of war. Can anyone recommend some involved war games? And please don't give me starcraft-like RTS games...I want realism and high-level strategy, like Shogun. I don't really care about the time period, and I prefer slower real-time (Shogun) or turn-based games.

Thanks. ^_^

	25-02-2002 08:45									#2
	Re: war games Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Give Empire Earth a try.
Very long games, a huge number of units, and VERY oriented war

	25-02-2002 09:32									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

if you want a realistic war game, try "The operational art of war" but it is pretty complicated

	25-02-2002 13:41									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Try poking around wargamer.com - esp. the computer game companies in the links section.

TOAW and Decisive Action are as "involved" as most anyone would want. If TOAW and DA (or most games from HPS Simulations or Schwerpunkt) are too much of a departure from what your used to Combat Mission (Battlefront) and Steel Beasts (Published by Shrapnel? Strategy First?) offer wargaming with much better graphics and a faster pace. Panzer General 3D and Scorched Earth are even more relaxed. (I'd consider them strategy games with a strong wargame "feel", actually.)

Talonsoft also puts out quite a few wargames, generally inbetween TOAW and Panzer General in complexity.

Not really a wargame, but recently I got a copy of "Jagged Alliance 2" and have been having fun with it. Sort of a small unit tactics RPG - you lead a team of mercenary "freedom fighters" (you're being paid by the good guys) in the fictional nation of Alruco. The heart of the game is the turn-based isometric-view combat, where each unit is a individual soldier. But there are quite a few RPG elements (each soldier has a dozen "stats" that improve with use and/or training, and you can make a merc thats supposed to be you. NPCs, side quests.) I'm amazed at all the fun and interesting, but not necessary, details the game has. The game must of either had a huge budget, very _fast_ programmers, or, more likely, a really enthused development team.

	25-02-2002 17:04									#5
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The Operational Art of War is the purest war game I have ever played. It can be quite overwhelming, saying it can be a bit complicated is an understatement.

	25-02-2002 19:56									#6
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Despite Emire Earth, I think Age of Empires 2 is the best alternative.

	25-02-2002 21:17									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Here is a thread that I think you might find interesting. It is a discussion about wargames:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=40235

	26-02-2002 06:59									#8
	Re: war games Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Kenjura I'm finding increasingly that civ3 fails to satisfy me in the aspect of war. Can anyone recommend some involved war games? Thanks. ^_^

Combat Mission

WW II, western front (an eastern front version is supposed to be available any time now - the game engine could be used for different wars and I hope it eventually will be).

You can play on various map sizes, with many force sizes and configurations.

It has been designed by people who are OBSESSED with military accuracy.
It has a POWERFUL editor and many fans creating scenarios, mods and skins.

There are Mac and PC Demos (31 MB) for download
http://www.battlefront.com/

Units are modelled at squad size (2 to 12 people) for infantry and individual vehicles. You can play a scenario with one squad or a whole regiment. You can play one battle or a series of connected engagements. You can balance the opposing forces equally or up to 3:1 for or against.

The turn based play requires an 'orders' phase followed by one minute of real time movement which can be harrowing when you blow it.

As it happens I like the CIV III combat within the context of CIV III, but if I want a war game then I crank up CM.

	26-02-2002 08:29									#9
	Steel Panthers WaW Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Steel Panthers world at war is a great world war 2 wargame that simulates at the smaller units size, such as companies. Best of all, it is completely free, if you don't mind downloading 500 megabytes.

	26-02-2002 09:21									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I saw Empire Earth in the Shops the other day and it looked really good. I guess a war game would suit me, since In the last few months i've transformed from Pure Builder to complete Warmonger

	26-02-2002 11:39									#11
	Re: war games Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Kenjura I'm finding increasingly that civ3 fails to satisfy me in the aspect of war. Can anyone recommend some involved war games? And please don't give me starcraft-like RTS games...I want realism and high-level strategy, like Shogun. I don't really care about the time period, and I prefer slower real-time (Shogun) or turn-based games. Thanks. ^_^

I know where you're coming from. After 2 months of solid Civ3 playing I found the game degenerated into algorithmic sequences with no visceral fun.

Me, I went back to playing Shogun

Another suggestion, although the scale is different than what you ask for, is Jagged Alliance 2. Graphically it's ugly but it gets the job done and is still the best strategy game I've ever played. It's not slavishly realistic but you won't find a better squad level combat game on the market. It's a game where tactics is everything in battle. Plus, it's only about $10.

	26-02-2002 20:39									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Despite Emire Earth, I think Age of Empires 2 is the best alternative.

Strange, I found that these games are pretty the same in their mechanisms...
I just prefer Empire Earth because it has the "Civ feeling" in it, the possibility to race trought all history.

	26-02-2002 22:39									#13
	Re: war games Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Kenjura I'm finding increasingly that civ3 fails to satisfy me in the aspect of war. Can anyone recommend some involved war games? And please don't give me starcraft-like RTS games...I want realism and high-level strategy, like Shogun. I don't really care about the time period, and I prefer slower real-time (Shogun) or turn-based games. Thanks. ^_^

Total Annihilation (and its XPs)
Rebellion
Force Commander

Those are so far the best ones out there in terms of RTS. TA and FC are just war games, while Rebellion is like a civ game only RTS. It takes about several weeks to play Rebellion out there.

	26-02-2002 23:38									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

1) The complete wargame, Panzer General II, is now available as a free download.

Go here to get the game:

http://panzergeneral.net/


2) The complete wargame, People's General, is also available as a free download. On the site below, select the menu and go to the downloads section under "People's General Game".

Installation is easy. While you're at this site, download the new campaigns, sound upgrades, equipment files, etc for the game:

http://www.peachmountain.com/5star/

Then join other wargamers in the forums to talk about these games, other games, history, and military subjects:

http://pub88.ezboard.com/bjpspanzers

Both games now have tons of new mods, campaigns, maps, sound upgrades, etc, so they should be a lot of fun.

	27-02-2002 02:30									#15
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Leonidas Here is a thread that I think you might find interesting. It is a discussion about wargames: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=40235

Rock on Leonidas!

	27-02-2002 03:56									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich Rock on Leonidas!

Goes to show you that you don't have to spend an arm and a leg to play an enjoyable game. . .

	27-02-2002 04:54									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The War in Russia and Pacific War Matrix versions are revamps of the original SSI classics by Gary Grigsby. Go to www.matrixgames.com and download them for free. Just a note, these are SERIOUS wargames. You shall NOT find fancy graphics here, only hours and hours of micromanagement and battles. It's a great game, and if you play it you can consider yourself a grognard!

	27-02-2002 05:10									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by sachmo71 The War in Russia and Pacific War Matrix versions are revamps of the original SSI classics by Gary Grigsby. Go to www.matrixgames.com and download them for free. Just a note, these are SERIOUS wargames. You shall NOT find fancy graphics here, only hours and hours of micromanagement and battles. It's a great game, and if you play it you can consider yourself a grognard!

That reminds me, those Close Combat games rock too. I never won a battle, but I still love them.

	27-02-2002 06:14									#19
	War Gaming Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

For the best war gaming that beats ANY computer war Game is to try BOARD WAR GAMING and join AHIKS for PBM or PBEM war gaming . Then join A.R.E.A. for a national rating. My two favorites are "The Russian Campaign and the Rise and Decline of the 3rd Reich 4th ED. Both made by Availon Hill Game Co. Computer games are to easy even TOAOW .Nothing like a good human opponent.