27-02-2002 07:31									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Serb The truth is between, as always.

So if I say you're an total ass, and you say you're not. Then the truth would be that you're an ass, but not a total one?

quote: Every country dopes.

So you're admitting that your country dopes.

quote: Russians made a lot of mistakes mostly not by sportsman, but by mans who was in charge. Those man were unable to defend Russian position.

Oh sure, blame it on the mans.

quote: Do you really think that Russians do not have doctors in their team, to determinate that a sportsman in not proper condition? Do you really think that team doctors before the contest were unable to determinate that blood test after contests will show doping’s use? What do you think our doctors are idiots or they wanted a scandal?

They didn't want a scandal, they wanted to get away with it. Plus, the athletes could have doped up after seeing the Russian doctors.

quote: What about South Korean short tracker?

What? Did he dope up too?

quote: All yours so called facts are no facts for me, those facts based on brake of rules. The blood tests of Lazutina were made after the same tests were taken from Danilova. It’s a brake of rules. Only one sportsman from every team must be tested. [

What about the IOC's rules?

quote: But further, about results of those tests (btw results do not shows the dopes only 0.8% hemoglobin above average)

Did you read this in a Russian newpaper, or make it up yourself?

	27-02-2002 08:23									#62
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Actually in Canada while an individual may chose this route we here have an anti doping additude...

Ben Johnson for example did not come back a hero for his choice in fact Canadians were collectively shamed by it.

Which begs the question how were Russian dope positive atheletes treated on thier return?



I hate to repete myself but you may have missed this?

	27-02-2002 08:54									#63
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the angrier Serb gets, the more and more he starts to sound like ottok

	27-02-2002 08:56									#64
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower the angrier Serb gets, the more and more he starts to sound like ottok

WHAT AN INSULT... YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR!!!!!

Now apologize to ottok RIGHT NOW!

	27-02-2002 08:57									#65
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i'm sorry ottok, i didn't mean to insult you like that

	27-02-2002 08:58									#66
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower i'm sorry ottok, i didn't mean to insult you like that

Much better

	27-02-2002 09:46									#67
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Very funny.
I’m tired of this bullshit.
You said that I don’t have arguments, I have many. My English is not sufficient to properly defend them here, and I don’t want to waste my time. All our arguments are took in the court. As long as you will call us a cheaters, I will call you a cowards and liars.

quote: What about the IOC's rules?

It was the brake of IOC’s rules, read those rules first.

quote: Did you read this in a Russian newpaper, or make it up yourself?

As I’ve said read the IOC’s rules.
A couple hours before start of the race ONE member of every team must be tested. This blood test is not for doping use. This test is the check of hemoglobin level. If level of hemoglobin is above normal this is suspect for use of doping, but it not proves the use of doping. Anyhow the rules says that if hemoglobin level is above of normal, then this sportsmen must be substituted, but TEAM might continue the race. When I’ve said that it was the brake of all rules I’ve mean: first of all TWO members of Russian women ski team were tested instead of ONE. About results of test our team were informed 15 minutes before start of the race. Our women ski team was removed from race UNLEGAL. And we will prove it in the court. This is only one example of many.

quote: What? Did he dope up too?

No his gold medal was taken from him, and was given to an American.

	27-02-2002 09:55									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Serb As long as you will call us a cheaters, I will call you a cowards and liars.

Again... let me remind you that the Russians got caught cheating.
Do you still deny it. Oh that's right, they didn't cheat... they were cheated...


And that's why the IOC took their medals away... PLEASE NOTE... the IOC, not the Americans, not the people at Apolyton, but the people responsible for enforcing the rules at the Olympics...

Oh... and that cowards and liars thing... very immature, but I guess when you don't have any facts to ....

	27-02-2002 09:59									#69
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Only one was disqualified, no? Because of this, the alternate should have stepped in. If both were disqualified, and you didn't have a second alternate, then you have a point. But that would still mean that two athletes were probably cheating.

Btw, your English is just fine.

Anyway, we've gotta cut Serb some slack. If he actually is from Siberia, he's probably freezing his ass off right now. We can afford to be generous.

	27-02-2002 10:03									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Again... let me remind you that the Russians got caught cheating.

A (single?) russian athlete was caught cheating, not the entire russian population.


I think this is what he saying... I don't know.

	27-02-2002 10:05									#71
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It's hard to figure out what he is saying inbetween all the personal insults and denials

	27-02-2002 10:05									#72
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quote: not the entire russian population.

that would be funny

	27-02-2002 10:09									#73
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quote: Only one was disqualified, no? Because of this, the alternate should have stepped in. If both were disqualified, and you didn't have a second alternate, then you have a point. But that would still mean that two athletes were probably cheating.

You do not know what are you talking about.
Read the rules too. I've talked about TEAM RACE. You know where one women run first part of distance then another continue, and so on.

quote: but I guess when you don't have any facts to ....

The case is not close yet.

	27-02-2002 10:11									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Serb The case is not close yet.

Let us know when the IOC returns the medal... we have time.

	27-02-2002 10:13									#75
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quote: Anyway, we've gotta cut Serb some slack. If he actually is from Siberia, he's probably freezing his ass off right now. We can afford to be generous.

Don’t worry about my ass. It is +3C here write now.

	27-02-2002 10:16									#76
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You're trying to get off on a technicality. It doesn't matter if all the teammates were tested, while the rules say only one should be tested. It still doesn't remove the fact that she was cheating!

"It is +3C here write now."

That's damn cold!

	27-02-2002 10:16									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Ming It's hard to figure out what he is saying inbetween all the personal insults and denials

It is hard to be chill when reading such bullshit as this thread.

	27-02-2002 10:20									#78
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quote: Originally posted by DanS You're trying to get off on a technicality. It doesn't matter if all the teammates were tested, while the rules say only one should be tested. It still doesn't remove the fact that she was cheating!

This blood test showed that her hemoglobin was above normal, but it does not showed the use of doping. That’s why Lazutina was allowed to next race- 30 km. Only after this race test shows the use of doping.
Our women Ski TEAM were removed ILEGAL.

quote: It doesn't matter if all the teammates were tested, while the rules say only one should be tested

Actully it matters. This calls a brake of law.

	27-02-2002 10:21									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Serb It is hard to be chill when reading such bullshit as this thread.

Yeah... it must be tough having to face the truth...
Again... who got caught... AGAIN... do you deny that simple fact.

	27-02-2002 10:40									#80
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No I don’t deny that two of our sportsman were cough. But it’s only a tip of iceberg.
Do you deny that this is the worst, most scandal Olympic games ever? Our protest not about this two cases.
Do you really thing that Russians unable to accept the defeat? It’s insane. Most of all we hate a LIES. This games were campaign against of ENTIRE OUR TEAM not two members of it.

quote: That's damn cold!

Not for us. For us –35C is cold. We are not so fragile as you are.

	27-02-2002 10:48									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Serb This games were campaign against of ENTIRE OUR TEAM not two members of it.

And you offer up "WHAT" as proof...
Let me guess... We got caught = Everybody was against us.

Great Logic

	27-02-2002 10:56									#82
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Where is your logic then?
Name my one previous games where Russians showed the same behavior. You are who deny logic not I am. Thinking that Russians cannot accept defeat properly is ignorance of facts.
And you know about the list of our protests (women and men ski, freestyle, figure skate, hokey, etc) if you don’t, then you know nothing what are you talking about.

	27-02-2002 10:59									#83
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you know, i could say i am offended by all this swearing, but i'm having too much fun watching serb debate with ming

	27-02-2002 11:02									#84
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You know I could say I’m offended by the name of this thread, this thread by it self, but most of all by attitude to our Olympic team.

	27-02-2002 11:06									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Serb You know I could say I’m offended by the name of this thread, this thread by it self, but most of all by attitude to our Olympic team.

having an attitude towards your country's olympic team is not against forum rules last time i checked

	27-02-2002 11:07									#86
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Actually in Canada while an individual may chose this route we here have an anti doping additude... Ben Johnson for example did not come back a hero for his choice in fact Canadians were collectively shamed by it. Which begs the question how were Russian dope positive atheletes treated on thier return?

The main problem here is a lack of trust, which actually renders our present discussion a little bit meaningless.

Trust was further undermined by the unfair treatment at this olympiad. Can we trust the IOC? By no means. Especially after they showed themselves as a bunch of wimps in the Canadian case.

Therefore, if you are Russian, you cannot be completely sure whether the doping allegations are true in essence. On the other hand, there are other possible explanations for a high hemoglobin level and the presence of that substance (I don't remember the name). The investigation continues. The Russians filed a protest. Let us wait for the results.

Even if the allegations are true, one cannot be sure that the Russians were not inappropriately singled out and that the Western top contenders were properly checked. And here I mean just the *top* contenders, i.e. those who realistically pretended to the gold. Have those miraculous Norwegian skiers, who won multiple gold, ever been checked? I never heard about that.

It is this lack of trust that ultimately prevents the Russian people from condeming the alleged Russian doping users.

	27-02-2002 11:18									#87
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Nu nakonetc to nashego polku pribylo.
A to menya ati pridurki uzhe dostali v konec.
Zloradstvuyut suki.
Ni hera mi im ezhe dadim prosratsya v Italii.

	27-02-2002 11:20									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Serb And you know about the list of our protests (women and men ski, freestyle, figure skate, hokey, etc) if you don’t, then you know nothing what are you talking about.

OK... we will see what comes first... That any of your protests actually gets upheld... or that you get your medal back... or nothing else happens.

I'm betting on nothing else happen

	27-02-2002 11:30									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Nu nakonetc to nashego polku pribylo. A to menya ati pridurki uzhe dostali v konec. Zloradstvuyut suki. Ni hera mi im ezhe dadim prosratsya v Italii.

Tyazhelo im eto vse ob'yasnyat'. No proderzhimsya. Glavnoye sohranyat' spokoystvie.

	27-02-2002 11:33									#90
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quote: not the entire russian population.

just because they don't have enough money to give them to everyone

quote: We are not so fragile as you are.

I would love to see you in texas in august when it is 115 =) who would be fragile then my little butterfly hahaha