26-02-2002 15:41									#1
	heterosexual sex amounts to sexual abuse to a woman? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I tried to find the source to get the line exactly right. but it's close enough for goverment work. You get my jist.

And I just pointed out above this did come from a source. It is not a troll thread. Do not shut it down.

I'd like to hear some responses from concerned males and females (or DL's pretending to be females )

Of course I don't agree with such an absurd statement. But I feel that because it was made, and can be influencing, it deserves discussion.

Discuss

	26-02-2002 15:47									#2
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I may need more to get this thread rolling. The statement above may not be enough. I'm not certain, but I believe the above statement was made by a lesbian feminist.

What bothers me is sometimes people force their views onto others. Feminists should be encouraging women to think for themselves, not telling them what to think.

But I don't want to isolate this entirely on feminists. I see this all throughout special interests groups. No one thinks for themselves. They rely on other people to tell them what to think.

While this should be no surprise to many here. The numbers involved are staggerring. I see it more and more now days. Are people unable to form opinions for themselves? I'm tired, so I'm probably rambling. So long.

	26-02-2002 15:51									#3
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amounts to? What do you mean with that? In the end women are abused? Please explain some more.

	26-02-2002 15:58									#4
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I really can't. I didn't make the statement.

It was said by some feminist I suppose.

What do you all take from that statement is what I am asking.

	26-02-2002 16:02									#5
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What I'm guessing- I really don't want to put thoughts in this person's head. But who cares . I'm guessing that this lesbian can't seem to comprehend that even though women share a common gender, not all women think like her. Just because she can't comprehend why a woman would be attracted to men or undergo penetration sex doesn't mean she should be saying women are abused by such practices.

I've been with some women (too few unfortunately) that have really enjoyed sex. They get really into it. And I've been with some women that do seem to put out because that is what is expected of them. You can tell this because of their lack of enthusiasm. Is this abuse? Was I abusing these women by having sex with them even though they don't really enjoy sex? I never forced them to put out. Some women just fake it just to keep their boyfriends happy etc. I don't stay in such relationships mainly because I don't enjoy that kind of situation.

	26-02-2002 16:12									#6
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If we do not have hetrosexual sex can someone please explain to me how we were intended to breed.

My wife would be most upset if I told her I could not longer pleasure her as it may be seen as sexual abuse.

	26-02-2002 16:15									#7
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there are ways of freezing you know what and placing it you know where.

I say in the future, sex may be like in that movie Demolition man. what da ya all think? Virtual Reality technology may even be able to make it better than the real thing.

	26-02-2002 16:16									#8
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Women use sex to get love
Men use love to get sex

So I guess it's mutually abusive.

	26-02-2002 16:19									#9
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I seem to remember from an ideas in politics course that that statement was made by one of those American radical anti-porn femminists called something like Dorkins...
I *think* that she believes that men have all the power in hetrosexual sex, and as a result women should stear clear of blokes.

I'd get my old notes and check, but they're under the house, and I can't be stuffed getting them.

	26-02-2002 16:25									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Drekkus Women use sex to get love Men use love to get sex

I asked my wife and she dissagrees with you, she said women use love to get love but sex is something mutually enjoyable.

	26-02-2002 16:34									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Hydey I asked my wife and she dissagrees with you, she said women use love to get love but sex is something mutually enjoyable.

She's right



edit: on request. No offense was intended, just kidding.

	26-02-2002 16:39									#12
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Case: I believe you´re correct, I wrote something similar in my post that got lost somewhere...

	26-02-2002 16:41									#13
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Edit: Thankyou Drekkus

Last edited by Hydey on 26-02-2002 at 17:10

	26-02-2002 16:42									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Hydey I asked my wife and she dissagrees with you, she said women use love to get love but sex is something mutually enjoyable.

Mutually enjoyable? That avatar can't be a picture of you then.

	26-02-2002 16:47									#15
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I think I hear boddintons pot calling my kettle black.

	26-02-2002 16:59									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Case I *think* that she believes that men have all the power in hetrosexual sex, and as a result women should stear clear of blokes.

Or they should simply switch positions

Sounds like another one of those chest pounding lesbian feminists *****ing about the inhumane 'burdern' of women. She should allow others to think for themselves, because equality of the sexes has never been greater than it is today. Besides, most women I know rather enjoy sex

	26-02-2002 17:27									#17
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Exactly what it is more myth by radical feminist pathetic abuse of power. They attempt to undermine social norms and replace them with myths to gain power and money.

Example: "...man is always uneasy and threatened by the possibility that woman will one day claim her full right to human existence, so he has found ways to enslave her. He has married her, and through the family, binds her to him as wife and mother to his children. He has kept her helpless and dependent, forcing her to work when he needed her labor, isolating her (physically and psychologically), and as a final proof of his power and her debasement as a possession, a thing, a chunk of meat, he has raped her. The act of rape is the logical expression of the essential relationship now existing between men and women." (as quoted in Rape: The First Sourcebook for Feminists. Report from the Work- shop on Self-Defense by Mary Ann Manhart.p. 215)

That woman needs a shrink....

Interesting stats show that lesbian relationships are far more violent and abusive than male female...no small margin either I think it was 60% higher...Similarly child abuse from women to children is 260% higher then men on children so much for the testosterone theory. I guess they are running out of excuses and now wish to attack normal healthy relationships to defuse their own lack of ability to healty sex and love.

An interesting article:

THE NEW MYTHOLOGY OF RAPE
POLITICIZING WOMEN'S PAIN

by Wendy McElroy

http://www.zetetics.com/mac/rape.htm

	26-02-2002 17:33									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I may need more to get this thread rolling. The statement above may not be enough. I'm not certain, but I believe the above statement was made by a lesbian feminist. What bothers me is sometimes people force their views onto others. Feminists should be encouraging women to think for themselves, not telling them what to think. But I don't want to isolate this entirely on feminists. I see this all throughout special interests groups. No one thinks for themselves. They rely on other people to tell them what to think. While this should be no surprise to many here. The numbers involved are staggerring. I see it more and more now days. Are people unable to form opinions for themselves? I'm tired, so I'm probably rambling. So long.

Ya lost me on this one. Some wacko women, apparently a feminist, states her opinion and you say she is trying to force her opinion on others and that this is bad. So are you saying free speech should be banned? You don't have to agree with her and she is not holding a gun to your head [If she is, tell us and we'll call the cops]

Then there is your assumption that all feminist believe this nonsense, that they don't think for themselves, and this is widely held belief. Just because one feminist says doesn't mean that every feminist starts reciting this nonsense like a robot. Most of my ex-girlfriends are feminists and none of them believe in this nonsense. I have never heard any of my lesbians friends talk about this theory.

I do agree that some special interest groups have members that can't think for themselves. Look what happens when GW Bush talks. The Republicans automatically respond like he's speaking the gospel truth. Same thing with Clinton and the democrats. Very scary stuff.

	26-02-2002 17:41									#19
	The joy of sexism Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Have you ever noticed how people who can't win with facts and logic always resort to name calling? The feminists are no exception. Here we have a group of people who have labeled all dissenters as "sexist." The word is fairly dripping with disgust when they use it. Anyone deserving of such a name must be a low life subhuman scoundrel. Indeed, we have to look all the way back to the days of the troglodytes to find anyone as undeveloped as a sexist. You can see men dodging quickly to the political left to avoid the stigma of being called a (dirty, rotten, worthless) sexist.

PC name calling, contrary to the children’s poem, strikes with great force. In fact, sticks and stones may have less of an impact when you consider that the courts have taken the ridiculous negative connotations of these names seriously! The ground gained by the feminist movement has been driven by shaming men into acting unnaturally. Anyone who is privy to discussions between men about women knows that men have not changed their opinions about women a bit, despite their mouthing of all the right PC terms when women are present. Many men have tried to think like the feminists want but then another short skirted honey walks by and all their good intentions are out the window.

The world is sexist, from the lowest insect to the most intellectual of men. You will find that in the animal kingdom, males and females have roles that are very different. In the human realm, the same is true. The feminists have forced an unnatural condition to exist in America today, through the courts. It is unnatural, and therefore doomed to be only temporary. The only reason one has for opposing such a short term problem is that feminism destroys families.

On average, women are weaker than men. This is a fact that cannot be denied by any rational person. Men are more aggressive than women and have held the large majority of the leadership positions of every human society that has ever existed. These facts are born out throughout history and around the world. Women have always been more nurturing than men. Children throughout history have clung to their mothers' love as a universal constant, giving them something that fathers never could. This is basic and rooted in the biological factors that will survive long after all those living today are gone. Those who accept these facts are called sexist. They are of course! All people are sexist and can be no other way. Wake up and smell the coffee! Sexism is as natural as the sunrise and therefore is a good thing. To make sexism a dirty word is twisted and pathological!

Every time a women puts on a dress, makeup and high heels, she is sexist. Every time a man puts on a business suit he is sexist. When a man shaves his face or a woman shaves her legs, it is sexist. When a man and women make love it is sexist and when a child is born from a woman it is sexist. When a mother nurses her baby, that is sexist. All of life is shaped by sexism because sex is a reality of life which shapes all humans from the moment of conception until death. It is not avoidable and should not be.

What of male chauvinism? Can that be avoided? The data are in on this one! In America we have demonstrated both positively and negatively that male chauvinism is necessary for a strong nation. With male chauvinism firmly in place, our country grew from a handful of colonies to the greatest nation on earth. Women were treated better here than ever before in history. Society expected a man to stay with his wife and raise the children he sired, through financial support and leadership in the home. Divorce was something for the minority not the majority of families. Children grew up living with and respecting both of their parents and learned the difference between right and wrong in the home environment.

Now, through brain washing the children in school and rulings of the court, male chauvinism is considered bad. What has been the result? The obvious statistic that jumps out at you is that the vast majority of children are not raised by both of their own biological parents. Children are neglected by their single working mothers or having great psychological difficulties dealing with step parents.

Men have been "liberated" far more than women have by the removal of male chauvinism. Men are not expected by society to take a leadership role in the family. Since that is the only role nature has equipped them for, they have no role in the family. Therefore they leave! Women are trying to be the bread winners and even that role is gone from the men. What is left but to become single and go on the prowl. Men do not get married as early in life, if at all, today and women still are having babies. It doesn't take rocket science to understand the implications of that fact. Women are having their lives ruined by single motherhood and removing male chauvinism is why.

A man will be "king of his castle." Either it will be with a wife or without her, depending on whether or not she will support him in his kingship. Biology has dictated this. Whether you or I like it, agree with it, or loath it, makes absolutely no difference. Just like the law of gravity, you may not like it but you will have to deal with it anyway.

	26-02-2002 17:48									#20
	Re: The joy of sexism Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Boddington's In America we have demonstrated both positively and negatively that male chauvinism is necessary for a strong nation. With male chauvinism firmly in place, our country grew from a handful of colonies to the greatest nation on earth.

You wrote this? I thought you were British and you lived in England.

	26-02-2002 17:58									#21
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quote: Women have always been more nurturing than men. Children throughout history have clung to their mothers' love as a universal constant, giving them something that fathers never could. This is basic and rooted in the biological factors that will survive long after all those living today are gone.

While I agree with some of what you said I want to address this...

Women have had the role of nuturing in no way does that mean they are more nuturing, in fact indepth studies are righting that myth endlessly.

"Fathers never could"? Again a myth as fathers assume more of a role and conversly as fathers are removed from thier role as "parents" we are seeing the true reality of the "universal constant of the "love" and "nuturing" a father has with his children".

So the reality of the situation is fathers "love" and "nuturing" play a huge role with the normal development of thier children.

This type of history "mythism" is what drives the feminist ranks and the adversarial divorce court industry it is simply untrue.

Fathers as their role in parenting expands I am sure it will...continue to prove as valuable and nurturing and loving as a womans. The fact that "history" was what it was and the present and future is what it is offers little fact based reality to what a mother or father are to thier children.

	26-02-2002 18:14									#22
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quote: heterosexual sex amounts to sexual abuse to a woman?

In your case yes dissident

	26-02-2002 18:20									#23
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quote: Men are not expected by society to take a leadership role in the family. Since that is the only role nature has equipped them for, they have no role in the family. Therefore they leave! Women are trying to be the bread winners and even that role is gone from the men. What is left but to become single and go on the prowl.

They aren't ok? Not true at all again studies are proving this myth wrong everyday. Men have an equal and huge role to play in the family and are "equally equiped" by nature as such.

Men leave mostly because of the obvious biasness of the divorce court, family court industry.

Men leave because we are more and more becoming the role of the "donar". Let me explain man has kids woman leaves man man pays for kids woman gets remarried woman now has kids and triple the income. Man gets remarried has kids and has half the income...the divorce court industry...so who is the "bread winner"? Men rarely get more than visitation to their children something like an uncle coming to visit. This is simply harmful to the kids and amounts to child abuse and male abuse. These types of bias are destroying marrage not the fact that male chauvinism has been removed that is a new myth I hope gains no speed or respect it certainly gets none from me.

Part two the myth of "womans intuition" and on and on children need both biological parents in their lives period...both sexes have it in them to be loving and nurturing to say anything less means you have been brainwashed...

	26-02-2002 18:30									#24
	Re: The joy of sexism Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Boddington's A man will be "king of his castle." Either it will be with a wife or without her, depending on whether or not she will support him in his kingship. Biology has dictated this. Whether you or I like it, agree with it, or loath it, makes absolutely no difference. Just like the law of gravity, you may not like it but you will have to deal with it anyway.

This is a popular opinion in the United States, but not in Canada

In 1983, 42 per cent of Canadians agreed that “"The father of the family must be the master in his own house.” By 1992, only 26 per cent of Canadians agreed with that statement. The same year, Americans were surveyed and 42 per cent said dad should be king.

By 2000, only 23 per cent of Canadians said Dad should be king of the house, compared to 48 per cent in the US (71 per cent in the American south).

So more Americans are becoming more traditionalist while Canadians increasingly see marriage as an equal partnership.

See survey http://erg.environics.net/news/default.asp?aID=456

	26-02-2002 18:36									#25
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Men leave because we are more and more becoming the role of the "donar". Let me explain man has kids woman leaves man man pays for kids woman gets remarried woman now has kids and triple the income.

I don't think so. Child support tends to end when a woman gets remarried, at least in Canada.

But lets say you are right. How many women do you know who have done this?

Besides your logic is screwed up. You start by saying "Men leave because" then your explanation says the "woman leaves man."

	26-02-2002 18:50									#26
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Child support ends in Canada when the child turns 18 or leaves home and lives on own...spousal support is subject to the agreement in court.

Every woman who has been to the family court, which is about 89% to date...

quote: Men leave because we are more and more becoming the role of the "donar".

I then simply explain what a donar is...BTW "donar" is the most widely used term used by feminist's to describe men and our role as er fathers and bread winners so to speak...

	26-02-2002 19:36									#27
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this just doesnt quite make sense.... i mean, how can it be abuse if both parties are willing?

I see it as this....

Women have innies and Men have outties...... doesnt it naturally go together? I'm not saying any man and any woman, but with feelings, especially LOVE then yes i'd think you should natuarally want to be together and to share with one another, and the ultimate culmunation of that is to share the private part of you thus equalling sex!

I know women 'fake it' sometimes but mostly i think thats due to not wanting to let their partner down, they want him to feel successful and encourage him so from time to time when she is having difficulties reaching 'the goal', yeah she may pretend, but not to hurt his feelings or anything , but because she wants him to want to do it again next time! lol

	26-02-2002 19:39									#28
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Child support ends in Canada when the child turns 18 or leaves home and lives on own...spousal support is subject to the agreement in court. Every woman who has been to the family court, which is about 89% to date... quote: Men leave because we are more and more becoming the role of the "donar". I then simply explain what a donar is...BTW "donar" is the most widely used term used by feminist's to describe men and our role as er fathers and bread winners so to speak...

Are you trying to suggest that 89 per cent of women have gone to family court to sue for child support?

Never heard any feminist use the word "donar to describe men. Most women just call men "men."

	26-02-2002 19:43									#29
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heterosexual sex amounts to sexual abuse to a woman?


This is ridiculous. The only way I would consider it abuse is if the guy has no idea what he is doing. Sex to me is a very pleasurable thing..if it is considered abuse...THEN

BEAT ME BEAT ME..but treat me gentle

	26-02-2002 19:52									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Blackwidow24 heterosexual sex amounts to sexual abuse to a woman? This is ridiculous. The only way I would consider it abuse is if the guy has no idea what he is doing. Sex to me is a very pleasurable thing..if it is considered abuse...THEN BEAT ME BEAT ME..but treat me gentle

LMMFFAO

thats great!!!!!! hahahahahaha!!!!

i gotta agree with that one!!!!