07-03-2002 02:29									#1
	Damn Protectionist Bush!!! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Bush just raised tariffs on steel by (I think) 30% to 'protect domestic steel producers. The EU is definetly going to retaliate, as is Japan, Brazil and China.

What a stupid move, and what makes it worse is Bush was saying he's committed to free trade!

MY ASS HE IS!

	07-03-2002 02:34									#2
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Well they already imposed the unfair tariffs on our lumber, so we know that free trade/free market stuff he spouts is crap.

	07-03-2002 02:37									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hooray, hooray, America and principles of free market! Free trade's all right for all those countries where we produce cheap sporting goods, but any sign of trouble for land of apple pie, and it's back to Protectionist Country we head!

	07-03-2002 02:38									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

why didn't you guys elect Gore?

the rest of the world will make him pay

	07-03-2002 02:39									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Mr Bush is a ****er. Not that we have a real war, and economic recession, we need him to start a trade war as well.

The guy on BBC is saying now that Bush is an anarchist - he doesn't care about the rule of war nor any other rules that don't suit him. He just does what he likes.

	07-03-2002 02:40									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Incidentally, to support the worldview that Bush is a Baboon, he's apparently tried to get Stevie Wonder's attention by, that's right, waving his hand at him...

	07-03-2002 02:41									#7
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Bush is an anarchist

Well, I don't know about anarchism, but he certainly is an antichrist.

Also, he doesn't know what he wants, but he knows how to get it.

And he wants to destroy.

Possibly.

	07-03-2002 02:45									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: why didn't you guys elect Gore?

So it would have been worse? If Gore was president the tariffs would probably be 60%.

I'm glad I elected Bush over Gore, anyday

	07-03-2002 02:46									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Stefu Well, I don't know about anarchism, but he certainly is an antichrist.

mah what else can we expect from this moron? WWIII?

Perhaps. he just doesn't care, nor does he have brains to help him decide.

We shall see, there are still a couple of years to bear with his ideas. And than he will get elected again . Hopefully not.

	07-03-2002 02:49									#10
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Damn Bush, Sweden´s gonna lose millions of dollars on this, the steel industry is one of our backbone industries

	07-03-2002 02:50									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

One can't help but agree.

Now we are at it, how about also blasting the EU farm subsidies, and the textile tarifs. Removing those would do a lot in helping third world countries.

	07-03-2002 02:52									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

But of course..

Oh, interestingly the steel tariffs aren't on developing nations (or Canada and Mexico... which may be the same thing ). At least he put that in.

Damn those unions! They make me mad

	07-03-2002 02:52									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

You know, his father did the same thing; this playing of both sides to claim the middle. And you see where it got him.

But as long as he doesn't sign any BullShit ADA type legislation, he's not as bad as poppa.

Yet.

	07-03-2002 02:55									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think the tariffs are wrong, and I think it's even worse how he does this but lets American companies use Chinese rocketry to launch satellites.

Brilliant Bush.

On the other hand, the tariffs don't apply to Mexico. Could this be part of a scheme to stem immigration, develop mexico, and create another power on the American continent?

Oh wait, it's Bush.

	07-03-2002 03:09									#15
	Suffering from ads?

Chalk up another that says BOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Will cost the US more non-steel jobs then the steel jobs that it saves.

As much as i'm displeased, I have to ask why.

Possibles.

1. It was a compromise. Big Steel didn't get all they wanted and Bush knows he needs votes in those states for midterm elections for the Republicans. I can't believe that there were politicians that wanted to give more. HYPOCRITES>

2. With our war on Terrorism on, he may have wanted to do something to guarentee a steady supply of domestic steel. While there is considerable competition from more efficient mini-mills, they're more into the lighter gages. (I would hope there was a better reason than this, but that's the current speculation)

3. He's a weinee. But at least he's our weinee I still wouldn't want the BORE.

RAH

	07-03-2002 03:11									#16
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Are democrats basically more protectionist?

	07-03-2002 03:11									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

This is really going to hit the Australian steel industry hard (Australia exports $300 million worth of steel to the US each year).
So much for the benefits of being America's ally

	07-03-2002 03:13									#18
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If a company can't compete then should it go bankrupt. In the long run is that the best.

Keeping companies artificial alive with tariffs, raises the cost of goods and by that lowers the wealth(because products made of steel will become more expensive). It is bad for everyone in the long run

Away with all those tarifss and subsidies for both the US and the EU! In the long run will we be both better off! Why don't they force presidents to learn a little bit economy?

	07-03-2002 03:15									#19
	Tired of ads?

Could someone address the possible use of subsidies and dumping by foreign steel, that these tariffs could've been reacting to? (and don't bring up other types of subsides, I don't care, we're talking steel)


Do they exist?

	07-03-2002 03:16									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by rah 1. It was a compromise. Big Steel didn't get all they wanted and Bush knows he needs votes in those states for midterm elections for the Republicans.

That's the real reason for the tarriff. The steel unions were more politically organized than thier opposition anmd Bush need thier votes for the off year election. He also has to deal with the effect of dumping on the domestic steel industry.

	07-03-2002 03:20									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Are democrats basically more protectionist?

Yes, much more so. They are joined at the hip with the unions.

quote: Could someone address the possible use of subsidies and dumping by foreign steel, that these tariffs could've been reacting to? (and don't bring up other types of subsides, I don't care, we're talking steel)

Perhaps, but still I wouldn't recommend tarriffs to counter that. After all, see England in the 1600s after repealing the Corn Laws, it started its metoric rise economically. Why? Because England's farmers had to be more productive, leading to better technology, while others were protected and didn't care.

We should have our steel plants be more productive, and if they can't then they don't deserve to exist. It might be cruel, but that is how capitalism works.

And yes, Dino is right. It was more politics than anything else.

	07-03-2002 03:22									#22
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

whine, sniff, sob.

Wait 3 years and vote for the "ape" of your choosing.

	07-03-2002 03:23									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

At the very least, these tariffs aren't set in stone and can be ended when needed. They'll probably disappear soon after the election.

	07-03-2002 03:26									#24
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I hope this serves as a lesson to anyone who votes Republican in the belief that they're the party of economic freedom.

	07-03-2002 03:42									#25
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Well, Well......Arent the Euro's doing the same thing to Cheap Chinese Lighters?

Oh yes. I can find a link if you want.

	07-03-2002 03:45									#26
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Rex Little I hope this serves as a lesson to anyone who votes Republican in the belief that they're the party of economic freedom.

I have sinned!

If you can get someone brighter and more moderate than Harry Browne, you'll have my vote... but until then I'll stay on this side of the fence .

	07-03-2002 03:47									#27
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quote: Originally posted by kolpo If a company can't compete then should it go bankrupt. In the long run is that the best. Keeping companies artificial alive with tariffs, raises the cost of goods and by that lowers the wealth(because products made of steel will become more expensive). It is bad for everyone in the long run Away with all those tarifss and subsidies for both the US and the EU! In the long run will we be both better off! Why don't they force presidents to learn a little bit economy?

Lots of european Industries are subsidized bye there governments as are American agriculture. That is of course, also unfair. But the US steel industries are in deep crises. It may pass. But I dont think so. In the end, they just may go broke. Steel from Asia is shitloads Cheaper, and European steel is moderately price. With us out of the Steel game soon, we should now watch those two go at it.


edit: I do agree this is against capitalism.

	07-03-2002 03:50									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Imagine, finally something that Eurocoms and Amerightwingers can agree on

	07-03-2002 03:53									#29
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quote: If you can get someone brighter and more moderate than Harry Browne, you'll have my vote...

Not sure what you mean by "more moderate"; anyone the LP puts up as a candidate is going to be a hard-core libertarian, almost by definition. I do hope that we can find one who'll run a better campaign than Browne did.

	07-03-2002 03:59									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

i wasn't even aware we had a steel industry anymore why can't we just let some little backwater country do that stuff for us while we make hi tech stuff? oh wait, we let taiwan do that for us too. what does the US export these days?