07-03-2002 03:08									#1
	How Should the US Reduce Petroleum Consumption? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The United States uses a whole lot of oil. Per person the rates very high; only Canada compares. The question is how can the US use less petroleum, thus reducing CO2 emissions and resulting in less need for foriegn countries, that may be hostile to us sometime in the future, to control our economy.

(I picked Option 2, btw)

Oh, and this is the BEST option, not a mix of them all. Make decisions people .

Last edited by Imran Siddiqui on 07-03-2002 at 03:15

	07-03-2002 03:20									#2
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Short term, tax breaks/penalties. Long term, get the auto industry and military to use fuel cells (or something similar).

	07-03-2002 03:22									#3
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But I'd figure those tax breaks/penalties will cause fuel cells to be used in the long term, so that emissions will fall further for greater tax breaks.

A market solution (kind of).

	07-03-2002 03:24									#4
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Oil is your friend. Use more oil.

	07-03-2002 03:24									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui But I'd figure those tax breaks/penalties will cause fuel cells to be used in the long term, so that emissions will fall further for greater tax breaks. A market solution (kind of).

Um, word!

	07-03-2002 03:26									#6
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Of course Canada is up there, do you have any freakin idea how far everything is away from each other.

Actually it would be nice to see the advent of alternative fuels based on ethanol, yet I'm not sure if this would really help pollution.

Wouldn't electric based vehicles just increase the necessity of power plants which seem to run on hydro-carbons anyways.

	07-03-2002 03:28									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Oil is your friend. Use more oil.

Damn you Albertans. Your as bad as Texans .

quote: Wouldn't electric based vehicles just increase the necessity of power plants which seem to run on hydro-carbons anyways.

Purely electric based cars would. Gas/electric hybrids have the batteries recharge when the gas is in use, or when it is warming up (doesn't take too long from I've heard). So emissions end up being less.

	07-03-2002 03:29									#8
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I recommend tax breaks to those who use renewable sources and GENEROUS to EXCESSIVE tax benefits to those who develop them.

Tax breaks are a better incentive than penalties - dangling a carrot is better than threatening to take away the carrot.

	07-03-2002 03:30									#9
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Oil is great stuff.. it's just a shame we burn the damn stuff in vehicles. Ah the wonder of hydro-carbon based products.

Did you hear that there is a new plastic coming out based on soy beans? Seems like the only good thing for them!

	07-03-2002 03:32									#10
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I don't doubt tax breaks are better than penalties. However, for those cars (or factories) that are suitably horrible, they should have a penalty placed on them. So that the company attempts to change the vehicle to avoid the penalty.

	07-03-2002 03:36									#11
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You know, I remember a few years ago, the Denver area, I believe, gave tax breaks for people who bought low emission vehicles. They ended up in debt or other somesuch financial straights because of it.


Should definitely be planned well beforehand.

	07-03-2002 03:48									#12
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hehehe, that's amusing.

Yes, it should be well planned, but they have the huge bureaucracy in Washington. You'd hope to think they could do something right .

	07-03-2002 03:53									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Oil is your friend. Use more oil.

Were drilling as much as we can out of you guys. We get almost 10% of our oil from you. Canucks wont let us drill much more for enivorment reasons. Tho there is lots of USA investment money behind canadian exploration.

	07-03-2002 03:54									#14
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Were drilling as much as we can out of you guys. We get almost 10% of our oil from you. Canucks wont let us drill much more for enivorment reasons. Tho there is lots of USA investment money behind canadian exploration.

What are you talking about?
There's tons of new oil being drilled every day. In Eastern Canada as well as the huge deposits in Northern Alberta where the oil giants are spending billions upon billions to get at the oil.

	07-03-2002 03:54									#15
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory Were drilling as much as we can out of you guys. We get almost 10% of our oil from you. Canucks wont let us drill much more for enivorment reasons. Tho there is lots of USA investment money behind canadian exploration.

Sounds good to me! Care to invest a little money with NA Explorations? It will make you rich!

	07-03-2002 03:56									#16
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quote: Originally posted by November Adam Sounds good to me! Care to invest a little money with NA Explorations? It will make you rich!

Not my money. Thank Conoco, Haliburton, etc....

quote: What are you talking about?

Sorry. Im thinking of alaska.

	07-03-2002 03:59									#17
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fg, that's a whole other US state .

	07-03-2002 04:00									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui fg, that's a whole other US state .

Canada

Since when?

	07-03-2002 04:02									#19
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Since like forever... you know the 51st state..

	07-03-2002 04:14									#20
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Coconuts, they work very well(i voted bananas as it was kinda close to Coconut).
In the war in Bouganville, down near Papua New Guinea(North of Australia). The Rebel fighters of Bouganville facing a complete blockade by the PNG forces resorted to loads of cunning methods to keep up their fight for independence. One of which was refineing the Oil from a Coconut that then could be put straight into the 4x4's left on the Island.Apparantly it worked a treat and while the PNG forces camped on the Island suffered black out's from there faulty diesel generators, the Bouganville people had free Fuel for there car's and power! Very ingienious i think.Oh and apparantly it burns clean(compared to Oil).

	07-03-2002 04:55									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

End all subsidies to big oil, implement tax breaks for cleaner solutions as well as tax penalties for those who stick with petroleum.

	07-03-2002 05:05									#22
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We don't want to destroy the economy Ramo

Penalties for those who stick with petroleum

	07-03-2002 05:06									#23
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should have made it multiple choice, I'd vote for all.

	07-03-2002 05:09									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui We don't want to destroy the economy Ramo Penalties for those who stick with petroleum

Next we should have a poll. "Do you want to be penalized for driving a car"


Any government that Taxes citizens for somthing like that is WAAAAAAY out of line!

	07-03-2002 05:09									#25
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Only in certain contexts, Imran (edit: not for users) .

	07-03-2002 05:11									#26
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quote: Originally posted by orange should have made it multiple choice, I'd vote for all.

Check my first post.... Make a decision! Basically, what should be the focus.

	07-03-2002 05:15									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Only in certain contexts, Imran (edit: not for users) .

Pray, do tell, how you can tax/penalize a producer. Without carrying the extra cost down to the consumer?


Simple economics here.

	07-03-2002 05:27									#28
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Simple. They'd lose market to those using cleaner solutions if they increase their prices.

You're just getting the car manufacturers to clean up the externality they're creating, and also nudging them into towards a long-term change. No different from other environmental laws.

Last edited by Ramo on 07-03-2002 at 05:33

	07-03-2002 05:33									#29
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Oh just don't bother. Use the stuff. Make it easier to explore. Less off-limits lands, etc.

	07-03-2002 05:35									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Simple. They'd lose competition to those using cleaner solutions if they increase their prices.

So you basically use the heavy hand of government destroy an entire industry that employs more than 250,000 people...


Its up to people who make these cleaner solutions to prove there worth to the consumer.