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Athens, Hellas
Jan 2000
time: 07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by faded glory
oh ok. I just wonder why FRYOM (ya i know...but they like to be called macedonia) took the macedonia name. Possibly to dupe western history? After all until now.......I thought Alexander the Great was from the COUNTRY of Macedonia. Not the greek province. Stupid balkans..... |
The entire story started from Bulgaria on the 19th century and the early of the 20th century.
Before the Balkan Wars there was a great strife between Bulgarians and Greeks for the control of Macedonia. With the term Macedonia I am not refering to FYROM but the greater geographical area wich includes northern Greece, southern FYROM and a small part of Bulgaria.
The strife, known as the Macedonian striving didn't had the results the Bulgarian wished for as the Greeks seemed to overtaking control of the greatest part of Macedonia. In the 2nd Balkan war BUlgarians lost and Greeks officially took control of the greatest part of Macedonia. After the end of the great war aslo known as World War I Bulgarians lost West Thrace to the Greeks as well and said goodbuy to Macedonia for ever.
Unfortunately things didn't end up there. During the previous mentioned period Bulgarians tried to achive the autonomy of Macedonia with aim to include it by force in their state as they had done with the autonomous state of Eastern Romilia not long ago where a great number of Greeks lived there too.
The idea of the autonomous state of Macedonia seems to have knocked the door of Tito as well, the leader of Yougoslavia sortly after the independence of Yougoslavia from Germany at the end of World War II. He baptised the southern part of his country Yougoslavian Republic of Macedonia.
quote:
Originally posted by faded glory
Anyway. Isnt Mark G in Macedonia...(the greek one ) |
Yes. In Thessalonica, the largest city of Macedonia.
quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
The ancients certainly didn't see Macedonians as Greek...
Philip was seen as a foreign conqueror by most of the city-states. |
 Then how the hell Macedonians are refered as Greeks in Greek mythology writen centuries before Alexander the Great was born?
quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
I know it is a little complicated at first, but you ll get the hang of it faded, just dont give up on history of the Balkans  |
Well, actually it is too simple but with your crap and the historical ignorance of most people around the world it is getting complicated
quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
on the other hand faded, DONT ignore paiktis22 
you know what greeks do if you turn your back on them, even for a second   |
It is amazing how people make conclusions that all ancient Greeks were homosexuals because some philosophers wrote about homosexuality!!! 
Well, some Greek cities had Democracy therefore their people had the freedom of speach. Even the homosexuals.
According to your logic then any modern nation that has a homosexual oriented content in a book then all people of the same nation of the writer are homos The netire western world then
 Perhaps you have bent over in front of a Greek and took it in your arse and came up with that conclusion after all
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Lars-E
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Not all ancient Greeks. Just those from Athens. |
If you read 1&2 Corinthians you'll see that many had the same orientation i Corinth. In ancient Greece they had signposts with falloses on them pointing toward the nearest whorehouse. Seems sexuality was a big thing for Greeks. Still is I guess. Greek gigolos swarm allover western girls on holidays down there. Sinning in the sun. Wonder why you guyz have a different set of morals for girls and boyz. Saw a tv-thingy on this. The Greek gigolo-gods have a special name in Greece. Don't remember it. They compete in how many girls you can sweep-over in the summer. These are mostly one-niters, but some form relationships - don't think they last long tho. Bet the breakup-rate is hi.
Now I get it axi! You're not visiting western Europe/Enea this summer - you're waiting for the pretty Norwegian girls to come to you. They are preferred rite? Being the prettiest/healthiest/richest/most educated/intellectual/intelligent girls om mother Earth.
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Keygen
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Athens, Hellas
Jan 2000
time: 07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by GP
Alexander was a ROMulan, no? |
Is this somekind of alien tribe in Startrek?
quote:
Originally posted by GP
Anyway, why did all the Greeks (except the plucky Spartans) cave in to Alexander as if he were an Ottoman or something? |
Not sure what you mean by that...
quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Not all ancient Greeks. Just those from Athens. |
I wonder where did they find the time to knock out their women since Athens was the largest Greek city for many centuries
I saw a couple of years ago on the news a gay gathering in Holland or England, don't remember which one. They were thousands! Most blonde therefore Northern Europeans. I though for a minute that all Dutch or English must have been homosexuals. On a second thought though I said that's impossible. They just have the nerve to say they are gays and celebrate it and although a great number they should be the minority. So you, with less information beleive that Atheneans were homosexuals? Congratulations for your critical ability Who knows, maybe they were but we're never going to find out, are we?
quote:
Originally posted by Lars-E
If you read 1&2 Corinthians you'll see that many had the same orientation i Corinth. In ancient Greece they had signposts with falloses on them pointing toward the nearest whorehouse. Seems sexuality was a big thing for Greeks. Still is I guess. |
I didn't know that
Prostitutes in ancient Greece were very respected persons.
They were called "Eteres", in very loose translation something like partner.
quote:
Originally posted by Lars-E
Being the prettiest/healthiest/richest/most educated/intellectual/intelligent girls om mother Earth. |
No, just being the easiest
Yes, I am trolling too 
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Lars-E
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quote:
But the Olympics, like most things Greeks, was about the admiration (hey I remembered the word!) of all things beautiful.
If you are interested I recocmend a comparative study between the anceint greeks and the ancient jews in what regards aesthetisc and austerity.
It is really interesting to see. The hedonistic savoury way of life of greeks and the austerity, retained, disciplined and dare I say "spartan" way of life of jews.
Very intereting comparison. |
Spartan Jews, ok.. What about the Spartans? And yes give a reference to the study, please. I'm more interested in parallelling Roman and Greek mythology tho. The Romans borrowed alot from the cultural nation of Greece. Theater, dance?, litterature, recital (remember Nero: he was hailed in Greece Due to fear I think. Funny thing about him BTW: He could carry on for hours performing and "theatering": Ppl got so bored they pretended to die in the audience and were carried away :lol , rhetoric, and on and on.
quote:
Morality back then has little to do with today's morality which is predominatly based on Christian ethics. |
I thunk so:
Acts17:16-
While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. 17So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there. 18A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection. 19Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we want to know what they mean." 21(All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)
22Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious.
Are the Greeks as religious today as when Paul visited almost 2000 years ago? And is this now channeled thru the Orthodox church with all it's icons (read idols, see first verse)?
And why are you so religious? Has to do with your history I guess and search for wisdom. Platon's ideaworld and similiar thinking must have prepared the ground for the missionary trips of Paul and others..
quote:
About homosexuality the majority of ancient greeks did frown upon this preferance. But it was a democracy... I find male physic unnatractive. But I can't impose my views on other |
I thought homosexuality was prevalent back then..
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Bereta_Eder
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quote:
Originally posted by Lars-E
Spartan Jews, |
spartan jews.. yes, as a figure of speach.
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ok.. What about the Spartans? |
their society contrasted sharply with this of other greeks.
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And yes give a reference to the study, please. |
unfortunately I can't do it now. I come back for this later.
quote:
I'm more interested in parallelling Roman and Greek mythology tho. |
most roman copying was a bad, degraded reproduction of greek deeds. Be this philosophy arts or religion and to some extend language.
I am not interested in that subject very much. romans became just cruder bad copies of greeks in many ways.
quote:
Acts17:16-
While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. 17So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there. 18A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection. 19Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we want to know what they mean." 21(All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)
22Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. |
I am sceptical about getting the bible at face value. Also some things got again lost in the translation from the original greek text.
About talking oh yes you better believe it There even were special beautiful marble open space accomodations that were built for one and only reason: discussing. This is very well kept up with modern greeks too I assure you
The continuous discussion and exchange of ideas is what led, according to some historical analysts, to the greatness of the greek thought. But that's a huge topic.
quote:
Are the Greeks as religious today as when Paul visited almost 2000 years ago? And is this now channeled thru the Orthodox church with all it's icons (read idols, see first verse)? |
you wouldn;t believe how many ancient, pagan traditions and ceremonies have been passed on to orthodoxy. In many ways orthodoxy is a condinuation of the dodecathean Gods.
The "latreia" (faith worship) wasn't brutally interrupted and then changed to christianity as some claim. It transcended into orthodoxy.
Verry interesting to compare Poseidon with Saint Nicolaos(=Guardian of Sailors) for example in both ancient and modern Greece - the customs - the folklore etc. You'll find an astounishingly large number of similarities.
quote:
And why are you so religious? Has to do with your history I guess and search for wisdom. |
it has to do with byzantium where nation and religion became largely interlinked.
Today religion is interlinked with culture in many ways.
For example I am not religious but orthodoxy is a large part of my culture. (ceremonies are also seen as part of that cutlure).
quote:
Platon's ideaworld and similiar thinking must have prepared the ground for the missionary trips of Paul and others.. |
yes and particuarly it was the school of the stoic philosophers. Many of Christ's teachings are repetitions of the stoics.
quote:
I thought homosexuality was prevalent back then.. |
Nope. That is a pupolar misconception though. I;m not sure why. Maybe because it was deemed peculiar by wetsern scholars?
Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 23-03-2002 at 04:49
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Bereta_Eder
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quote:
Originally posted by Lars-E
How do you treat it differently from other historical texts? |
In that way you are correct. If you treat it as an historical text you might avoid some shortcommings. However there is this defining difference we are talking about. It's a work of religious content.
It is not a work of philosophy (at least not entirely), nor a theatrical play.
In this light it should be seen.
It would be the equivalant of the way of looking at the mystical eleusenian secret cult writings (which appropriately enough they largely remian secret since few things are known about them).
In any case, under the scrutiny and the angle of viewing of religious text must it be looked.
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I have a book called "New Testament Greek", but haven't looked into it. Yet... |
Yes. Just another step in the evolution of the language.
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There's a standard piece of work, I'd like to get my hands on, where the text is written in Greek, and then literaly translated. Insightful exegesis is added to this as well. But the volumes have been outta print a lot the last years  (Press altF4 to see a pic...) |
Cute.
quote:
Those lost things are only minor stuff and even one of your countrymen disagreed with you on "A unknown God". He said the definite article was the common translation. |
These might not be as minor as you think or as this example. I have noticed that in many cases a large chunk of a certain meaning becomes lost when translated into another language. That's why having a high quality translation should be very important to you.
You have to know greek in order to be in a position to fully savour the subtle linguistic shades that dwell inside the words. I'd dare to say that 90% of those become lost when translated to any other language.
I dare to say that you even have to have a first hand knowledge of the meanings and the words in order to plunge your mind into these works.
quote:
Did you know that we say "this is Greek to me" when we don't understand something? Cos Greek is supposed to be very difficult... Then why is NT Greek easy? And as you said English borrowed a lot..so how difficult can it be? |
New Testament Greek are not "easier" than attican greek or modern greek. But since I know the language browsing through attican or NT greek is much more easier to me. Same letters, same words just the syntax is somewhat different. (which is logical after couple of millenia )
edit: english and other languages are largely based on greek. It is easy for me to understand a lot of their words due to this. I'd imagine it should be useful vice versa. But the greek language is immensly "tranformable, adaptable, everchanging". One word with the change of one letter or even the tone in which you pronounce it can a get a subtle different meaning. And there an awful large number of tenses and other grammatical aspects which I can't spell in english.
I would imagine that greek IS NOT soooo forbidingly difficult.
I imagine that the phrase "it looks greek to me" came because of the different alphabet. The different letters which they couldn;t recognize. Not because of the immensity of difficulty it allegedly has.
quote:
BTW, your equivalent is "this is Chinese to me". Heard this from a Greek whilst attending Sprachschule in Bremen, Germany. |
True
I wonder what the chinese say
BTW your interest in all this is heartening.
Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 23-03-2002 at 20:40
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21-03-2002 17:39
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