25-06-2002 13:52									#151
	diety or deity Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by markusf the master diety league rules

You have been upsetting Deity with that spelling but now it appears you did not mean it.

	25-06-2002 13:54									#152
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If you do change the rules.txt please remember to tell new players to your group of the change so as to avoid any CHEAT calls.

	25-06-2002 17:38									#153
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Yeah, we've been trying to avoid making changes to rules.txt just for that reason. But I guess it should be considered.

RAH

	25-06-2002 18:55									#154
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markus those old games with wonderdog were alot of fun...though i am not proposing all the changes you mentioned...but the pyramids ending with refridgeration isn't such a bad idea....

the oracle is of most importance though

MDL......ah the good ol days of x1 before the dark times...before x2x2

	25-06-2002 19:26									#155
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And now, from the fabled land of propersettingsia, comes one man...........one man who will return us all to the light............

	25-06-2002 19:31									#156
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quote: Originally posted by markusf caravans reduced to 40 shields

If anything, the cost should be increased. But I see no reason to change the current cost.

quote: diplomats costs increased to 60? shields

Playing no city bribe... I see no reason to increase the cost. Now, maybe SPIES should cost 1000 shields. Spies are the most distruptive force to the balance of play... They are far to powerful. Modern era games just turn into a spy fest.

quote: and courthouses cost reduced by 50%.

Why don't we just reduce the cost of all city improvements

quote: Lighthouse went to computers

While I can understand why Lighthouse might be nice if it expired a little later... COMPUTERS!

quote: pyramids expired with refrigeration

I don't understand this one at all...

quote: Oracle never expires.

Make's it WAY too powerfull... you might as well make HG not expire too...

quote: Oh and there was a trade ship.. 0 attack so you could move it around in rep/dem...

This just seems silly. Deal with the problems of a representative government.

quote: i think that was all the changes not already in "rah rules" ..

It doesn't seem like MDL had much in common with Rah rules after all

	25-06-2002 19:46									#157
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well mdl was for 1x 1x diety where city bribing was allowed, hence the changes to diplomats...

With the oracle never expiring you where always guarented 2 civs in a 1x 1x game that where very powerful... Not only that often the HG went to a 3rd civ, with GL going to a fourth..

	25-06-2002 19:54									#158
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Oracle never expiring might be a bit much, maybe somewhere between RR and Flight would make sense.
But that's just a gut feeling.

RAH

	25-06-2002 19:56									#159
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I think War suggested Steam Engine last night... but then again, my memory is a tad foggy

It seems like a reasonable point...

	26-06-2002 00:17									#160
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actually to end it with RR would be great...that way both Oracle and HG expire at the same time!

	26-06-2002 00:27									#161
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I don't like multiple things expiring at once.

So maybe steam engine would be better.

RAH
No rational reason for my opinion here. Just a gut feeling, so please feel free to make fun of it

	26-06-2002 00:30									#162
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_points finger at Rah and laughs_

	26-06-2002 01:24									#163
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well , markus's pyramids to refridgeration sounds good to...adds realism...why would you need those granaries with fridges lol.....

i like it at the same time as HG or a smidge later...it does cost more you know

	26-06-2002 01:29									#164
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Not to put the cat amongst the pigeons but wonders are powerful enough. I can see you want to make the oracle last longer so that it is line with the power of other wonders, but why not go the other way and make the most powerful wonders expire quicker?

Perhaps the wise oracle foretold the future and was right all along.

	26-06-2002 01:37									#165
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by extending the oracle you give more players a chance to stay in the game.....

key is too give all achacne at a second session, which is rare in x2 games of any nature

	26-06-2002 06:21									#166
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Rename cure for cancer and have it worth 300 shields and put it with banking.

That gives you 4 happies in early times.. Should be enough to balance things out nicely

	26-06-2002 06:45									#167
	Re: diety or deity Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Hydey You have been upsetting Deity with that spelling but now it appears you did not mean it.

He can't spell at all

Look at his second name! He dropped the 'e'....

	01-07-2002 19:48									#168
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quote: Originally posted by markusf Rename cure for cancer and have it worth 300 shields and put it with banking. That gives you 4 happies in early times.. Should be enough to balance things out nicely

Maybe not banking since banking is on the path to Democracy and (SOL) which can provide it's own solution to happiness. It would only make SOL more powerful because you could get the extra happy to help celebrating. (better than Mikes) It needs to be on a more dead end path.

RAH

	01-07-2002 21:35									#169
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with HG, the fixed oracle (expires at RR ) and bachs and mikes there are plenty of happies for a four player game....and like rah said, there is always SOL for the warmonger

CFC could be tweaked...but not that early. perhaps if it came out with Amphibious Warfare and it eliminated unhappiness from boats?

either that or just scrap it...

	01-07-2002 22:51									#170
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever with HG, the fixed oracle (expires at RR ) and bachs and mikes there are plenty of happies for a four player game....and like rah said, there is always SOL for the warmonger

For the extra hundred shields, it should last longer than HG.

In our last saturday game, no one was making the move to Mono so I built the oracle. When the game ended, it was still functioning, and I was only one turn from SOL. It was a good investment. That with pyramids helped me get to over 5.5 mil pop without ever dropping into Republic. Quite effective.

RAH

	01-07-2002 22:53									#171
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fine make it expire with espionage....

	01-07-2002 23:26									#172
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quote: Originally posted by rah Maybe not banking since banking is on the path to Democracy and (SOL) which can provide it's own solution to happiness. It would only make SOL more powerful because you could get the extra happy to help celebrating. (better than Mikes) It needs to be on a more dead end path. RAH

Like anyone ever builds SOL, its the most useless wonder in the game after the tower!

	01-07-2002 23:38									#173
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If I have no happy wonders, SOL is a big priority, Early communism can solve your happiness problems until your infrastructure can be finished. It can also me useful if your senate won't let you attack that stack of muskets and cannons that just settled next to one of your cities. At least you know your drop into anarchy will only last one turn.

RAH

	01-07-2002 23:42									#174
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Democracy is the only government worth having, if you playing a game that is continued by the time you get to democracy your infustructure is already in place, and no other government even comes close to the trade you get in dem. besides happiness in 2x isn't even a problem.

	02-07-2002 19:33									#175
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If you delay democracy like you do by delaying invention "to max your trade", yes your infrastructure will be in place. But if you're making a beeline towards gunpowder, there is some gap before your infrastructure is in place. Sometimes your board position or the strat you're choosing demands gunpowder and the associated agressive techs that come after. Granted staying in the trade mode can be benificial in the long run. But there are exceptions. If you've overly expanded with happy wonders, sometimes communism can be a higher priority to continue the expansion.

I've seen games where you chose the war path also.

RAH

	02-07-2002 19:46									#176
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quote: Originally posted by rah If you delay democracy like you do by delaying invention "to max your trade", yes your infrastructure will be in place. But if you're making a beeline towards gunpowder, there is some gap before your infrastructure is in place. Sometimes your board position or the strat you're choosing demands gunpowder and the associated agressive techs that come after. Granted staying in the trade mode can be benificial in the long run. But there are exceptions. If you've overly expanded with happy wonders, sometimes communism can be a higher priority to continue the expansion. I've seen games where you chose the war path also. RAH

I only go war because i know the game will never continue.
If you do it right there is 0 gap between infustructure when going to dem. Since its 2x its sooo damn easy cuz all you need is 3 trade routes in 2 size 12 cities and some water and your rocking. You saw the few games i did it in, i had 350 gold a city at 90% tax.

	02-07-2002 20:44									#177
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If you do it right, I agree. But sometimes the circumstances make that difficult. I was just speaking of other options.

	03-07-2002 05:16									#178
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and you dont' always do it right on those maps either.....lots of early conflict

	05-07-2002 02:45									#179
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So what do other people in our little group think about extending oracle, eliminating spies... Some more opinions would be welcome... If not... Let's just do it

	05-07-2002 04:31									#180
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my sentiments exactly.....