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Adalbertus
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Cologne, Germany
Feb 2001
time: 06:18
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IMHO, Thatcherism was a stage the country had to go through. After the second world war, GB seemed to have slipped into lethargy and economic decline. I spent three month in Bradford in 1989, which is an extremely good example as grass rooted everywhere over the decline. Once upon a time, every othe village had railroad, there were industries etc, where then was grass and a few cows. In 1992/1993, I spent a year in York and Lancaster (good combination  ) and one started to restaurate historical cities, electrifice railroad lines etc.
Even if this obviously didn't happen all in three years, the difference was remarkable.
I think these are the real merits of Thatcher, not the actual laws she made.
Not that she did do things a majority agreed with, or that she always did do the best. But to my impression she put an energy into the country which it was lacking before, and everybody was whining about social care or the privileges of old. And it went through a great part of the society, not necessarliy in the way Thatcher intended. New Labor is a result of this.
Be happy you've had her, be happy you don't have her anymore.
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Guynemer
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Off to the Fletcher Memorial Home For Colonial Wasters Of Life And Limb with her!
Err... um... sorry... been listening to quite a bit of Pink Floyd recently.
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*End Is Forever*
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Salford, UK
Jan 1970
time: 05:18
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DinoDoc,
quote:
Could someone explain to me the reasoning behind the poll tax BFB mentioned? |
The poll tax replaced the "rates" - a tax collected by local councils, to (in theory) pay for local services, such as refuse collection, social services and suchlike. The rates were charged per household (I think - can anyone help me out here?), and there's no doubt that they required substantial reform. However, Thatcher's alternative was the "community charge". It was subsequently nicknamed the "poll tax" because the electoral register was used to determine collection. Unfortunately, the poll tax was ridiculously regressive - effectively the "prince" and the "pauper" were paying exactly the same amount in poll tax. This, amongst other things, led to a whole generation of people who took "can't pay, won't pay" completely literally.
On Thatcher's fall from grace, new DTI minister Michael Heseltine drew up a quick list of things which could replace the doomed community charge, and the result was the "council tax" paid on homes to this day.
Alex,
quote:
The 1988 budget was the most suicidally inept piece of ecomonic planning I have ever seen, and it plunged Britain into a long recession. |
Yes - but we're reaping the benefits of the earlier economic restructuring even today. As you've seen by my opinions on the poll tax, I quite agree that she lost it towards the end of her term in office.
Besides, I'd like to see what you think about Michael Foot's economic planning... 
reds4ever,
quote:
I forgive Blair a lot of his failings because I can remember what it used to be like working in manufacturing in the north of britain |
Thatcher's policies didn't exactly help northern manufacturing - but at least half of the decimated manufacturing was over-unionised and unproductive. The unions signed their own death certificate. If they hadn't created a culture of non-productivity, perhaps Thatcher wouldn't have been so opposed. In fact, I don't doubt that she wouldn't have been.
I'd also like to know what exactly Blair has done for "northern manufacturing"? Sweet **** all, that's the answer.
quote:
you only have to look at the music of the time to realize how unpopular she was with young people (The Jam, The Redskins, Billy Bragg and the rest of Red Wedge). |
Oh yes, Billy Bragg, that well known "voice of youth"... 
KH,
quote:
Maggie Thatcher was an evil ***** bent on on turning back the hands of time a century or so |
Oh, how informative... 
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Lazarus and the Gimp
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Whale-raping abomination
Aug 2000
time: 05:18
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Dinodoc-
Iain's answer outlines the nuts and bolts of Poll Tax, but the reality went much deeper. It replaced Council rates, by which people paid a charge loosely based on the value of their property to fund local governmental expenditure.
Thatcher's opinion on this was predictable. Why should people pay more just because they happen to live in large, comfortable homes?
So Poll Tax was dreamed up. Like all of Thatcher's policies it had a certain brutal logic to it. Every local authority had to meet it's expenses through a charge on individual, not on property. Every wage earner paid the same in that local area. Under Thatcherite logic, that's fair.
The first sting in the tail was that local authorities with greater problems such as decaying infratstructures, crumbling buildings, social problems, inevitably had bigger bills. That meant that people living in poor Urban areas paid bills that could be (and were) three times the size of those paid by those living in rich, leafy suburbs, or affluent inner-city wards in the groovy bits of London. That fitted in nicely with Thatcherism in general- the rich get richer while the poor get poorer.
The second sting in the tail was that every adult paid something. Even if you had no income otherthan state benefits, you still paid 20% of the bill. Even if you were a student. Even if you were an old-age pensioner on £3000 a year in state pension, you still paid. It wasn't deducted from your benefits, either. You had to physically collect your benefits from the local DHSS Stalag, then physically pay a chunk back. It defies every logic except Thatcherite logic, where it was the principle of everyone paying (even the dole-scum that Thatcher just loathed) that was important. It was an imperious gesture aimed at the underclasses. "You shall pay even if you have no money".
The third sting in the tail was that the only way to avoid paying was to "disappear". If you could not, or would not, pay your only alternative was to disappear from the electoral register. Many did- which meant they were disenfranchised and became "non-persons". Naturally, the areas in which this happened the most were in the poorest areas with the highest bills- which are the areas where the Tories had least support. Poll Tax had the effect (which couldn't have escaped Thatcher) that it would reduce the number of Labour votes at the next election.
The final insult? Best summed up in the Julian Cope in his poll tax song "Leperskin", in which he states "The man in Lambeth Palace pays the same rate as a man who owns a flat in Acre Lane".
It was the crowning glory of Thatcherite logic. However it all went horribly wrong. When it was introduced there was widespread rioting by normally law-abiding people. I take great pride in the fact that I was a rioter myself (fortunately there were no CCTV cameras in those days to record who assisted in a break-in to a certain council office. Through the picture widows. With a concrete bollard). It destroyed Thatcher's support and she was booted out of office as a direct result.
That's one of the bigger reasons why she is so hated in Britain.
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23-03-2002 10:58
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