26-03-2002 00:54									#91
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quote: I say it was totally unprecedented but the last time they tried to introduce a poll tax here (I forget the king but Bugs will know) peasants came up from Kent and stormed the Tower of London killing the then Archbishop of Canterbury (evil grand visier equivalent) and stuck his head on a spike London Bridge. I think Thatcher got off lightly.

Richard II.

	26-03-2002 01:27									#92
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Corporate welfare, protectionism, crazy monetarist policy, homophobic laws, selling off tons of weapons to human rights abusers, etc., etc. Maggie was really something.

	26-03-2002 16:47									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Corporate welfare, protectionism, crazy monetarist policy, homophobic laws, selling off tons of weapons to human rights abusers, etc., etc. Maggie was really something.

No wonder the Americans worshipped her.

	26-03-2002 17:48									#94
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Adam Smith:
"I was in London in 1985 and saw a billboard in West Ham. It had swarthy, dirty looking foreigners in undershirts with flies buzzing about them, driving truckloads of cheap citrus fruit into England. The advertisement was paid for by Labor. I conclude from this that it was Labor playing the xenophobia card at the time. Comments?"

Haven't seen anyone reply to this, so I'll give it a shot. The Labour party at the time (and probably still in some constituencies) had large racist elements in it, the East End of London being a prime example. These were working class people who didn't want them darkies coming over here stealing our jobs and our women (if you'll pardon the language)...they ended up forming a large chunk of the National Front/BNP support after the various purges that occurred during Foot's and Kinnock's reigns.

Indeed these purges were one of the main reasons for Labour appearing unelectable...there were serious problems within Labour (Militant being the most obvious) that had to get sorted out, and should have been by Callaghan (but the less said about him the better). This all culminated in the shenanigans with Liverpool Council (and that arse Derek Hatton), which provided great fodder for the Tory press.

The SDPs split from Labour was again due to the struggles against the likes of Militant, with the SDP lot believing that the Labour Party was doomed to drift into becoming an extreme left wing party. Luckily there were enough people still in Labour who were willing to fight against Militant.

	26-03-2002 20:20									#95
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Tolls:

Thanks, as always, for the perspective. I will be the first to admit that I don't know much about UK politics. Callaghan sounds like the UK analog of Mondale...should have changed the party's direction but didn't. Have I got that about right? A quick search on Derek Hatton turned up several pages listing him as a motivational speaker.....I have a sneaking suspicion that I am missing something here....

	26-03-2002 20:30									#96
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Yeah, Labours main support used to come from the poorest, especially manual laborers, with the most prejudiced views. In the pre-Thatcher days there used to be things like 'Labour Clubs' and 'Union Musical Halls', a bit like the SPD in Germany, and they were the most bigoted places on earth, I can tell you.

Its funny because about 50-60s years ago, the Labour Leaders were Trade Union representatives and Former Clerks, or even unskilled labourers. Thesedays, their from the same class as the Tories, Private School Lawyers, etc!

hmmm

	26-03-2002 20:32									#97
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Well atleast she snubbed are help in the faalklands. Tho I know nothing about demosestics. She was a good USA suck up...not as good as blair

	26-03-2002 20:55									#98
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AS:
Callaghan was the last Labour PM, lost to Thatcher in '79...it's possibly a bit rough on him to say he should have done something, since you could easily say the problems should have been tackled by Wilson before him...but then again, Callaghan was a fool, so I blame him...

Derek Hatton on the other hand was a member of Liverpool Council, and leader of the Militant Tendency (those extreme lefties I mentioned earlier). They decided to basically run the city into the ground...all to do with the government capping the amount that councils could tax(back to the rates again in fact). The place was a shambles, and good old Derek liked to make out he was standing against Thatchers tyranny, or some such rubbish...whereas in fact him and his mates were just thugs. I dislike him as much (if not more) than Thatcher because he finished off the city I grew up in.

A lot of lefties think he did a good job, but then I doubt any of them went to Liverpool in the mid 80s...

As for his public speaking, some people just think it's amusing to have him talking at their events (I think he also has a radio show). I wish people wouldn't pay him, but then there's always a demand for a court jester I suppose.

	27-03-2002 23:22									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's No wonder the Americans worshipped her.

Hi Stew! When you announced the new, nicer you, I seem to recall saying "I give it a month, tops".

Did you actually make it to a full week?

	27-03-2002 23:32									#100
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I've seen parts of Kinnock's speech at Labour Conference where he stood up to Militant Tendency and was heckled by Hatton. I'm no fan of Kinnock's but it was a terrific speech.

	28-03-2002 13:51									#101
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Was that the one where Eric Heffer got up and walked out?
It was a rather nice moment...

	28-03-2002 16:34									#102
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I think its rather tasteless of you all to rejoice when a fellow human being is struck dumb by strokes

	28-03-2002 17:24									#103
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Thatcher is evil incarnate!

She's had some strokes?

GREAT! She deserves them! I want to see that b1tch suffer for the misery she piled onto my country for so long!!!

Why people say that Poll Tax was a 'political mistake' is interesting...

I would say that she finally showed her spots to too many people at one time and many finally realised something that they had only suspected or endured until that point.

Thatcher was becoming a megalomaniac with delusions of her own invincibility - cabinet? Just a bunch of toady sychophants! She was the only person calling the shots in government for the longest time and finally she over reached herself when she felt herself above the electorate...

Bugs is entirely accurate in his appraisal of the Poll Tax debacle:-

At that time I lived in one of the poorest boroughs of the country - Haringay, which funnily enough because of all the services it had to provide also was the most expensive borough in the country at £576 per person (1989? prices!). I lived in a household that consisted of 3 people of poll tax paying age, myself my mother and my step father. Under the outmoded rates system we paid approx £400, under poll tax our new bill was £1728!

Meanwhile in affluent Wandsworth the bill was £143 per person - even if you had a huge income and lived in a mansion!

While Bugs may have rioted ( ), I was more subtle in my protest and managed to avoid paying via a combination of managing to pay a mere £86 for the next three years and then moving to NZ, I figured I didn't need a vote till the general election in '92 and by then I could safely proxy vote legitimately - what good it did with Major getting in...

Other blatant glimpses into Thatcher evil include her sending in the SAS to train the Khmer Rouge in Combodia (You know Mr Pol Pot, that guy who murdered almost 2 million of his countrymen in 'The Killing Fields'!!!)

The sinking of the Belgrano was ordered by her despite the fact that it was sailing away from the Falklands exclusion zone and could never have posed a threat due to her antiquity and constant shadowing by a British Sub. The Battleship had survived Pearl Harbour - but it couldn't survive the Iron B1tch!

The fact that she's bosom buddies with the notoriously murderous former dictator, Pinochet! Not to mention numerous others!

P.S. I take exception at Americans implying we are US puppets just because we agree with your country from time to time...

If that is the price of allying ourselves and showing solidarity, then perhaps we should back away now - we certainly will if you go ahead with this harebrained idea of 'finishing off' Saddam without appropriate provocation! The sheer arrogance!

Anyway, it is clear to all that Thatcher was the one wearing the trousers out of her and Reagan...

	28-03-2002 23:13									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I think its rather tasteless of you all to rejoice when a fellow human being is struck dumb by strokes

Well, firstly I prefer to think of it as God's attempt to salvage her reputation by getting the batty old harpy to keep quiet and stop coming across as megalomaniacal nutter.

Secondly, I really don't think she was human.

	28-03-2002 23:33									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil Its funny because about 50-60s years ago, the Labour Leaders were Trade Union representatives and Former Clerks, or even unskilled labourers. Thesedays, their from the same class as the Tories, Private School Lawyers, etc!

By gum, that sounds awfully familiar. Now where in the world have I heard of a "two-party" dynamic that works like that... hang on, it'll come to me.

Oh yeah! I remember now! Canada!

	29-03-2002 00:12									#106
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THE IRON MAIDEN IS HISTORY - MAY SHE RUST FOR AGES!