25-03-2002 14:16									#61
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LOTR or Moulin Rouge should have won BP. We are talking about films here after all. Rouge was visually amazing - so dynamic and colorful. I felt Rouge explored the medium itself. Rouge couldn't win because it wasn't a "straight" film - it was experimantal and the academy is conservative. LOTR was the best "straight" film.

Opie is a hack who directs schmaltzy movie-of-the-week stuff. "Far and Away" anyone? He neither achieved the technical prowess of Luhrmann, nor does Opie's melodramatic portrail of emotion stack up to Jackson's portrail in LOTR.

Denzel in "Training Day" was a great performance - better than Russel. (And what in God's name has Crowe been in that required any acting chops other than "The Insider"? "Gladiator" was just "LA Confidential" in ancient Rome.) And forget Sean Penn in "I am Ham".

Halle? She deserves it just for the sex scene in "Monster's Ball". Yep, that's right, call me a pig.

	25-03-2002 14:34									#62
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For those who think that 'A Beautiful Mind' was a great movie, may I ask: why?

Russell Crowe was awful. He went straight into the old cliche - display the eccentric, nutty professor with a series of ticks and nerdy behaviour. I am really sick of this. Not all mathematician/scientists are nerds who can't maintain a conversation! He also came over as being such a ****....

And what was the film all about? What was the point of it? To show that clever people can also have brain difficulties? I know this very well thank you (on an all too personal level). The movie was completely unfocussed. Was it supposed to be about mathematicians and the Nobel Prize or was it supposed to be about schizophrenia? Notice that John Nash's Nobel prize winning work was done before his schizophrenia, so they seem completely unrelated issues. While the story of a man overcoming schizophrenia can be very moving, here is was muddled by all the other baggage that the movie carries.

And the less said about the ridiculous way that the halucinations about suitcase nukes and communist conspiracies were handled the better.....

	25-03-2002 16:42									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Making him white if he was Arab is rewriting history [Still, bisexuality plays absolutely no part in this. The wife didn't know... and it is her standing by him that is important to the story.

Mind you, she did divorce him, and only re-married him after he won the Nobel. But those facts get in the way of a good "family values" story. So let's re-write history and pretend they stayed married. Let's re-write history and hide the fact that he had an illigitimate son (cause we don't want to offend the Christian Right), or the fact that he never married the mother of his first child (cause that would destroy the myth that back in the old days, people never had sex before marriage). Let's hide his bisexuality. Oh, and let's re-write history to pretend he wrote a brilliant thesis when he was suffering from Schziophrenia cause that makes a better story.

But, don't even think about re-writing history to change his race cause that would be completely wrong and unacceptable.

	25-03-2002 17:36									#64
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Bah, humbug!
I would have preferred to see LOTR get best picture, McKellen get best supporting, et al, but it is as someone before pointed out that the Oscars are not the true measure of a great film, but are rather the utmost expression of subjective judgement.
I mean, if it were up to me, Elijah Wood would have shared best actor with Daniel Radcliffe, and Harry Potter with LOTR, and Brian Cox would have been at least nominated for L.I.E, and probably win in best supporting actor, but I have always been known for peculiar tastes and utter madness.

	25-03-2002 18:03									#65
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Oh, to be young again and so passionate about things that don't really matter.

	25-03-2002 18:46									#66
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LOTR shouldn't even have been nominated, let alone should have won. Practically as boring as the books, everyone I know who saw it hated it.

Now, Moulin Rouge should have won. That was cool.

	25-03-2002 18:51									#67
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Also known as Lord of the Rings got ****ed, as everyone knew it would because members of the academy are morons

Correctamundo.
Snappy, other than music, sometimes I think the only taste you have is in your mouth.
However, congrats big time to Halle Berry.

	25-03-2002 19:05									#68
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Well JohnT, I won't eat my words. I still believe LOTR is a better movie than A Beautiful Mind (having seen both) but in the end, I recognized that the Academy would be more likely to go with Mind and only ended up choosing LOTR because of the smear campaign against Mind's script. Besides, LOTR has another two years at the top coming, and Two Towers should be even better than Fellowship was.

Major props to the Academy for their picks in the acting categories. Berry and Washington both deserved their awards (Berry especially) and I'm glad the Academy didn't get sucked in by the Gosford Park hubbub (and did the right thing in honoring Connelly). Of course, they set the tone for the night by dismissing Ian McKellen in favor of Jim Broadbent (!!!) but I figured I was losing my title anyway if LOTR didn't take it.

Oh, and to fellow fans of Survivor: did anyone notice Silas Gaither from the Africa edition as the mystery escort?

	25-03-2002 19:31									#69
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Phantom Menace did suck, but don't knock the old Star Wars movies.

IMO Empire Strikes Back was the greatest movie ever made.

The Oscars are BS anyways. I've always known this, that's why I don't care what those artsy homos do anyways. It's one select group of "we're better than you" people who think that their movies are so good.

The only times they've gotten it right were "Braveheart" and "Gladiator".

Titanic was the worst movie ever made.

	25-03-2002 19:41									#70
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Don't forget there's LOTR2 next year and LOTR3 the year after that. Two more chances at bat anyway.

	25-03-2002 20:37									#71
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I never understood why "Pulp Fiction" was considered to be such a great movie.

Did Nash's bisexuality have anything to do with his paranoia? If so then it should have been mentioned in the film.

I predict that the final film in the LOTR series will sweep the Oscars. The scene in which Sauron announces his undying love for Frodo and gives him the ring to keep, after which Frodo banishes Sauron and himself to the netherworld will certainly clinch the award for BP.

	25-03-2002 22:58									#72
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quote: Did Nash's bisexuality have anything to do with his paranoia? If so then it should have been mentioned in the film.

That's the question. But how can you be sure it did? It would be very difficult to say that his bisexuality had anything to do with his paranoia.

quote: But, don't even think about re-writing history to change his race cause that would be completely wrong and unacceptable.

Actually it wouldn't (be completely wrong, etc), it would just be less believable as a story about John Nash. After all, people seeing a movie white Muhammed Ali really wouldn't be able to believe that it was about Ali that easily. Sexual orientation is something that can be hidden (and has been for ages).

	25-03-2002 23:36									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui That's the question. But how can you be sure it did? It would be very difficult to say that his bisexuality had anything to do with his paranoia.

How can we be so sure? How would we know, if it's never presented to us?

quote: Actually it wouldn't (be completely wrong, etc), it would just be less believable as a story about John Nash. After all, people seeing a movie white Muhammed Ali really wouldn't be able to believe that it was about Ali that easily. Sexual orientation is something that can be hidden (and has been for ages).

Sexuality is not something you tuck away when it's convenient. It's as much of being a person as a skin color is, skin color is simply more superficial. That's why we disagree, you seem to think sexuality is a useless addition to a film and doesn't make a person, but rather it's an annoying tidbit of extra information like if he prefers the color blue to red...

	25-03-2002 23:47									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Asher How can we be so sure? How would we know, if it's never presented to us?

I was under the impression that his paranoia stemmed from his schizophrenia not his bisexuality.

Edit: I was right.

Now I must arrive at the time of my change from scientific rationality of thinking into the delusional thinking characteristic of persons who are psychiatrically diagnosed as "schizophrenic" or "paranoid schizophrenic".

http://www.nobel.se/economics/laure...sh-autobio.html

	25-03-2002 23:52									#75
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I was under the impression that his paranoia stemmed from his schizophrenia not his bisexuality. Edit: I was right. Now I must arrive at the time of my change from scientific rationality of thinking into the delusional thinking characteristic of persons who are psychiatrically diagnosed as "schizophrenic" or "paranoid schizophrenic". http://www.nobel.se/economics/laure...sh-autobio.html

The movie's not specifically about his paranoia (else it wouldn't be about a guy named John Nash, but rather "Guy With Paranoia").

It's about John Nash, who struggled with, of many things, Paranoia.

	25-03-2002 23:55									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Asher It's about John Nash, who struggled with, of many things, Paranoia.

His paranoia doesn't appear to have been caused by his bisexuality, Asher. Furthermore, as his bisexuality wasn't the focus of interest for the movie, I fail to see the reason why you feel it should have been mentioned in the movie.

	25-03-2002 23:57									#77
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc His paranoia doesn't appear to have been caused by his bisexuality, Asher.

Did you see my last post?
Of course it doesn't cause it, much the same way his being white didn't cause his paranoi nor his name.

They're using a real world character and they changed who he was in the film. The book talked about it, why didn't the movie? It wasn't that long at all, so the argument that they cut it out to save time is just silly.

	25-03-2002 23:59									#78
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Furthermore, as his bisexuality wasn't the focus of interest for the movie, I fail to see the reason why you feel it should have been mentioned in the movie.

I fail to see why it couldn't have been mentioned at all. It doesn't have to be the focus of the movie. The reason why it wasn't mentioned at all was so it make the film more accessable to the public. That much is painfully obvious.

The book told the truth about the entire story.

The fact is, no matter how much you guys enjoyed the "story" of it, it was a horrible adaptation of the book, and shouldn't have even been nominated for the "best screenplay adaptation" award. That's what I'm saying. If it had stayed more true to the book and to the real story, I would have probably enjoyed the film more and also think it could be up for the award.

	26-03-2002 00:09									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I fail to see why it couldn't have been mentioned at all.

His sexual history is as periphial to his real life as it was in his "reel" life.

Also, Nash doesn't seem to consider it an ommission of any import.

	26-03-2002 00:54									#80
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Oh, to be young again and so passionate about things that don't really matter.

You calling me old, old man?

I couldn't give half a flying rat's ass about all that nonsense. I'm just glad we got some extended time to ogle Halle Berry.

	26-03-2002 02:44									#81
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd ...and the only redeeming quality of Moulin Rouge was Nicole Kidman

That is true of most movies she is in.

I actually fell asleep watching them; hardly made it past Whoopi's first appearance.

But like my brother-in-law says: "A bunch of rich people pattin' another bunch of rich people on the back for a job well done".

	26-03-2002 04:25									#82
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar Denzel in "Training Day" was a great performance - better than Russel. (And what in God's name has Crowe been in that required any acting chops other than "The Insider"? "Gladiator" was just "LA Confidential" in ancient Rome.)

Do you always just shoot your mouth off, Templar?

You can answer your own question by going through all the movies he's been in. In movies you obviously haven't heard of, he's played (ironically, considering the current hoo-ha about A Beautiful Mind ) a homosexual in The Sum of Us and a neo-nazi in Romper Stomper, among others. I was happy to see Denzel Washington win, even if only for past performances (i haven't seen Training Day), but i was unhappy that big Russ didn't win, only because the film won most everything else. It suggests that Crowe's performance was below everything else about the film. I don't give a rats arse about the Imran vs Asher crap, but i do believe that A Beautiful Mind shouldn't have won "Best Screenplay Adaptation" with the glaring omissions.

One of the other strange quirks of the academy was Kidman's nomination for Best Actress in Moulin Rouge, when it was widely considered that her effort in The Others was far better. Baz Lurhman may be a genius, but Moulin Rouge was all over the place like a mad woman's custard

And wasn't Nicole Kidman absolutely gorgeous? Halle Berry was, too, but in a different way

	26-03-2002 05:10									#83
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Nicole was hot, no question about it. Caught myself almost making a comment about it to the wife!

I agree with Asher though: if the man is suffering from paranoia, and he is bisexual in a repressed society, then that will play into the paranoia and is a necessary element for character development.

But... I haven't heard how Nash and his wife feel about the movie and we probably won't, but I would think that at the beginning they were rather pleased about it all: the fact that she left him was unmentioned, the more sordid parts of their relationship was left unexplored, and all in all they came off looking noble and long-suffering. It was a lie of course, but a pleasant lie that did no harm and might've helped the couple seen the last 40 years in a different light.

I don't think the Nash's had much to do with it anyway. Did you notice that he was in the audience... all the way against the back wall on the first level? Also they didn't exactly trot him out when the B. Picture award was given, and I don't remember any teary testimonials about how a great and brave man he was (Oh, Howard might've touched on that a bit), nor anything about his wife.

Anyway, this just emphasises the value of the #1 rule of B. Picture picking: Never bet against the gimp.

	26-03-2002 05:54									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Sexuality is not something you tuck away when it's convenient. It's as much of being a person as a skin color is, skin color is simply more superficial.

Wouldn't you agree that both race and sexuality are pretty superficial? It would seem so from your statement "more superficial". I think that sexuality is a very touchy issue right now and that's the reason your trying to force this issue down our throats, but I do agree with you that it was probably ommited due to the sensitivity surrounding sexuality, but I also agree that it was left out because I'm not sure what bearing it had on the story, which I think was about overcoming mental illness or more simply overcoming.


I'd also like to say that Emilie (spelling?) should have gotten something I don't really know what, and perhaps it could be argued that what it got was the recognition from just being nominated that it deserved. I haven't seen Mouline Rouge, but Emilie was in a class of its own and I think getting an Oscar would have tarnished it in my eyes by clumping it into the class of movies and actors that were recognized -- Gladiator for God's sake!

And as much as it irks me to agree with Snapcase I understand what he means about LotR. As much as I liked the movie (and I like it alot) it was rather traditional (nothing wrong with that) and I think for me to take these awards seriously the movies awarded should be pushing the edge of movie making, not telling the same old stories with different settings, time frames, character, or what have you.

	26-03-2002 05:54									#85
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i wonder what nicole kidman was thinking as her ex husband stood on stage inthe opening monologue?????? I see him as such a creepy now for some reason.

and yes....LOTR got JIPPED!

	26-03-2002 06:19									#86
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I don't get it. You guys must not have been seeing the movies I was seeing. LOTR, A Beautiful Mind, and Moulin Rouge were all great, enjoyable movies.

To tell the truth, I was surprised that A Beautiful Mind won because it didn't take advantage of the full range of the movie arts, as did LOTR. But A Beautiful Mind was a well acted movie and definitely is punching above the narrow niche box office that movies like that normally do. People are voting with their pocketbooks.

And whoever said that Russell Crowe hasn't earned his acting chops must have been locked in a padded room for the last 10 years.

Lastly, Strangelove should get an Oscar for adapted screenplay.

	26-03-2002 06:24									#87
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quote: Originally posted by DanS And whoever said that Russell Crowe hasn't earned his acting chops must have been locked in a padded room for the last 10 years.

It was The Templar

	26-03-2002 06:30									#88
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Having fun, y'all?

I was rooting for LOTR too, but A Beautiful Mind is a good movie, so I won't begrudge the choice too much. The time to get up in arms would be if a bad movie wins.

JohnT, concerning your quote, yes, ABM was the favorite, but saying "there's no way" may have been a bit much. I know my roommate upon hearing of the awards and having not even seen A Beautiful Mind pronounced it the winner, but LOTR had a lot going for it to make it not quite certain. The one bit of the Awards I watched, the best Picture & Best Director parts, somebody said that the vote was very close. Good enough for me, because I can bet which picture was the one that was close.

Looking back at the awards though, it's too bad Memento got gypped in Editing and screenplay. Blackhawk Down had great editing though, so I won't begrudge that one much either. Never saw the screenplay winner.

Not all mathematician/scientists are nerds who can't maintain a conversation!

Yeah, but Nash was. For those concerned about historical accuracy, this is something they got right.

	26-03-2002 06:31									#89
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The first movie that I saw RC in was Proof, a small Aussie independant film. To this day, it's one of my favorite movies.

Snowfire: You moved to Oberlin?

Anyway, Black Hawk Down and Memento were also great, enjoyable movies. We had a lot of these this year. Not quite Best Picture winners, but a very strong range of enjoyable movies.

	26-03-2002 06:54									#90
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They did say that there were many tight races this year and the results did prove that as many professional critics seem to have been surprised by the picks.

People seem to be especially stunned that "Gandalf" lost for supporting actor (I forget his name).

By the way, Asher, aren't you forgetting that John Nash has denied that he was ever gay or bisexual in his interview with 60 Minutes?