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yin26
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This space reserved for Darkstar.
Apr 1999
time: 14:12
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http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum6/H...2383.html?24#24
You can follow that link to see why. Come to your own conclusions. I can only say that during my term as moderator this community came together to produce the most fantastic Wish List in gaming history (over 500 pages!). It might never be foot-noted anywhere or even mentioned when Civ3 gets released, but to see an on-line community stick it out for such a long period and with such determination was really a wonderful thing.
Along the way I tended to stay awfully quiet. I absolutely hated closing or moving threads, and this made more work for Markos. In this regard, I think I have been a lousy moderator. I never came up with polls. I hardly ever even had a good topic to add these last several months. For that, I'm sorry.
As you'll see in that controversial thread, Markos and I have very different thoughts about how "the public" should or should not handle its relationship with a gaming company. I think his is a one of "Keep a good relationship at all costs." He is notoriously rosy-eyed when it comes to problems in these games, and this clouds his vision.
But I understand him. This is his baby. And we can all aree that Apolyton is THE place for Civ-related stuff. So he and Dan must be doing something right.
On the other hand, I think he's sometimes too much of a company-boy for his own good. Then again, I'm sometimes too much of a trouble maker for my own good. In the end, he owns the board. 
I thank all of you who helped and put up with me for two years. In a sense, I'm greatly relieved not to have to check this board for something "offensive." I can just relax now and make Markos really work for his money.
Thanks,
Yin
[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited March 06, 2001).]
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Perhaps you misunderstood one things. Apolyton is not here to be a simple civ site. Apolyton is here to act as the intermediate between the developers and the community for the greater good of both. A bright example of this is the List. But when an apolyton forum moderator attacks a developer, he is not only harming apolyton, he is also harming the community in the long run
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Yin read your posts again and while you're reading them, imagine if they were written by someone else. And you might see you have an attitude problem.
I think MarkG does too. I think the moderators and admins around here need to relax. (Like Ming!!) (I think all admins and moderators around here should be either Kiwis or Aussies since we're all layed back BUT NOT STUPID). =)
I think Ming does the best job around here.
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I too am sorry how this has turned out. Yin, one thing I have to give you - you alway spoke your mind - IMHO, this was actually refreshing and I for one will miss your moderation. I really do hope your not going to just "disappear quietly" - The forum still needs your voice 
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Tiberius
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Europe
Jan 2000
time: 06:12
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Sorry to read this.
Mark, I politely disagree with you (may I?). It's true that this is your site and I understand that you need the "friendship" of developers, but don't forget one thing though: we, the gamers, the civ community, we buy the games and we post here on Apolyton. Be careful Mark, you may realize one day that Apolyton has very, very good relations with developers but no community at all.
I think that a place where people are beeing punished because they criticize a game or a developer, or because post something that you don't like, is no longer a wothwhile place to post.
I like Apolyton and the forums and especially the fact that we can come here to exchange ideas, dream about Civ3 and post good and bad opinions. Please don't change this, Mark.
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Tiberius
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Europe
Jan 2000
time: 06:12
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Sorry Mark, but from your discussion with Yin I felt that you are angry on him because he poped up a topic that could possibly harm Firaxis.
In my opinion, moderator or not, Yin (or anybody else) should have the right to criticize, even developers or Apolyton administrators (and he didn't even do that, just posted a sensitive topic).
If this special rule ("don't upset developers"), applies only for Apolyton moderators, I still don't agree, but your site, your rules. Just don't count on me as a moderator (now this will cause you serious ROTFL )
Oh, Yin: don't be sad; you actually won here. You are now free to speak!
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kolpo
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I don't want this site to be a hype site(it is very close to this currently) but I want it to be a discussion site. Firaxis already has it's own hype site which works and worked so good that I saw quite nothing else then meaningless hype posts here. Yin did a good job by posting a subject to make this agian a discusion site instead of a hype site. And now got he heavily punished for some very minor offence.
In fact are people who find all things that could possibly go wrong in a game and post them the most usefull kind of people for a company, because they can learn from them.
And the fact that he shouldn't post critic because he is a moderator does me think about Stalin who fired all generals who didn't thought exactly as him before world war 2 because after all : Generals should follow a more strick code of conduct them common people. Don't they ?
*is affraid because he realizes him he has offended the party leaders of the communistic ... eh I mean firaxis party*
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nemo, the private message had nothing to do with firaxis(e.g. it was not something firaxis gave him or anything like that)
still...
kolpo, if i cant be sure that something i tell(no matter how constructive or unconstructive that is) someone in private will not come out in public, i cant work with him. i believe that there are a lot of people in democratic countries that think the same way
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:12
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quote:
Originally posted by kolpo on 03-06-2001 12:40 PM
Because of the offensive non constructive tone of the message fail I to understand why it is so wrong to post that. There was also no clear written rule about that subject. I don't know any democratic country where someone can be punished for doing something that isn't clearly against the written rules. The only nations where things like that can happen are communistic and despotistic nations. And yes you have the complet freedom to rule this site on wathever unfair communistic way you want just like Sadam has the complet freedom to rule Irak like he wants, it is his country after all ? But just like with Sadam want I to say that the fact that it is his country(your server) doesn't make it good and doesn't change the fact that it is unfair.
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Now this is just plain silly. Capitalist democracies respect private property, and servers and the websites that run on them are private property. the owner can do what he wants to on them, within the law. If the publisher of the New Republic magazine doesnt like the opions of his editior in chief, he's free to fire him (and did). Freedom of speech adheres in the publisher, not in the editor or reporter.(Usenet, which is sort of cooperative anarchy is a very complex case, but its not a website) In fact if the publsiher is prevented from firing whom he wishes, his freedom of speech is interfered with. You dont like the policies of this site, you can go to another one, or start your own. (far easier to start a website than a newspaper, say)
Lord of the mark
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Well, the overall impression I get reading all this is that MarkG cares a lot about the devopler's side than the communities side.
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kolpo
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I posted "And yes you have the complet freedom to rule this site..." I admited the fact that a website owner is allowed to run a website the way he wants and I said that I thought that the moderators are ruled here like in a depotistic country. So I don't see what you are attacking with your post.
A website owner is free to rule a website on a despotistic way because we are a capitalism but people are free to give there opinions about that owner because we are a democracy. The website owner can react on this by banning that person from his service. But the income of a website owner is often determinated by the number of people that go to that website and because of that is it much better to allow critic like Mark did(at least from normal members) for which I'm happy.
[This message has been edited by kolpo (edited March 06, 2001).]
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kolpo
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A house and a big community website are mayb elegaly similar but are prcatically totaly different and can't be compared.
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06-03-2001 13:36
Try putting it a bit less bluntly :P
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