10-04-2002 01:34									#31
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quote: I've never seen anything like this about the HGP, in the "liberal media" or elsewhere. Can you provide a source?

Try this (you'll note that it's from the HGP people themselves).

http://www.ornl.gov/hgmis/elsi/minorities.html

	10-04-2002 01:40									#32
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bleck, there's a long sad tradition of this kind of BS psuedo-science. I highly recomend picking up Gould's The Mismeasure of Man for a good thorough history and debunking of this sort of thing...

	10-04-2002 02:18									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi If there is one black person who is smarter than even one White/Asian person, this entire theory is invalid.

crap!!! why?? never heard of statistics?

	10-04-2002 02:31									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny Look at that first paragraph. Doesn't that make you want to punch the author? Do you, for one second, get the impression that this is an objective commentary? Or, on the other hand, do you get the impression that you're dealing with a vicious little **** who's got an axe to grind?

I guess you dont think its possible to consider the alternatives to the generally accepted view of race without being a white supremacist. Thats a pity.

	10-04-2002 02:35									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi If there is one black person who is smarter than even one White/Asian person, this entire theory is invalid.

Two normal distribution curves with different means can overlap.

	10-04-2002 02:36									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I guess you dont think its possible to consider the alternatives to the generally accepted view of race without being a white supremacist. Thats a pity.

I don't think anyone who wasn't a white supremacist would be remoutely interested in it. It's been debunked for decades, and yet they keep pretending that it's "new" research.

It's it walks like a white supremacist and quacks like a white supremacist . . . you know the rest.

Sociobiology is no more a field of science than paranormal psychology. It's just a fancy name for racism.

Do you ever post anything about how f*cked up white people are, Caligastia? Or is it only significant if it's something which disparages Black people, Mr. "I'm not a racist, really?"

	10-04-2002 02:40									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo The idea that there's been 50,000 years of seperate evolution has no scientific basis, whatsoever. There're only a few genes that control skin color. There are thousands and thousands that control brain functions. And 50,000 years wouldn't be long enough to significantly affect something as substancial as that.

it doesn't have to affect all the brain functions, just subtly alter a few

the races are different, it doesn't make one inferior to the other just different. Why are people who excel at sprint events able to trace their ancestry back to West Africa? Why are no Fields Medal winners Black, most good swimmers white? Aboriginies have better spatial awareness?


I know it's nor PC these days, but were not all the same, and as soon as we understand that the better!

	10-04-2002 02:51									#38
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Why do jews always try to disprove a theory by personal attacks on the person that happens to be the messenger? Can't you just once try to show if there is a flaw in the theory itself?

	10-04-2002 02:57									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I guess you dont think its possible to consider the alternatives to the generally accepted view of race without being a white supremacist. Thats a pity.

Really? That's your guess, is it?

Well it remains a guess. As does the travesty of a piece of "research" you chose to post. Put your balls on the line and try defending that article you chose to post, rather than making mealy-mouthed attempts to smear those who argue against it.

	10-04-2002 02:58									#40
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WFHermans- I'm not even going to waste one breath in any attempt to reason with you. **** off, and do so now.

	10-04-2002 03:12									#41
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Do you ever post anything about how f*cked up white people are, Caligastia? Or is it only significant if it's something which disparages Black people, Mr. "I'm not a racist, really?"

This was asked towards Caligastia.

That was a good point, Chegitz, and it looks like Caligastia has chosen to ignore your question.

	10-04-2002 03:21									#42
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IIRC the definition when one race turns into two different races are when they can't cross-breed anymore...

So in that way the debate about races is wrong from the very start.

It takes a hell of a lot of mutations for that to happen and a almost as many to get a real difference between the two groups.

That the people of western Europe would be better because they have had it a bit harder in life before is such BS. Other peoples haven't had such a nice time before either. In that chase eskimoes and desert peoples would rule the earth.

Some things are easy to change over a few generations however. The size and form of a colony changes due to the food they can get. For example; people where often smaller before than after the black death due to a change in diet. In some cases this get a long term effect if a group live under a diet under a long time. Thus african slaves where usually taken from parts with big and strong populations. People who later where pretty good at some some kinds of athletic sports. That says very little about anything else, least of all their IQ. That whites are better swimmers is 'cause they've got access to swimmingpools.

	10-04-2002 03:21									#43
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Don't be silly, he's said before that he's not a racist, so he can't be.

	10-04-2002 03:33									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin IIRC the definition when one race turns into two different races are when they can't cross-breed anymore... So in that way the debate about races is wrong from the very start. It takes a hell of a lot of mutations for that to happen and a almost as many to get a real difference between the two groups. That the people of western Europe would be better because they have had it a bit harder in life before is such BS. Other peoples haven't had such a nice time before either. In that chase eskimoes and desert peoples would rule the earth. Some things are easy to change over a few generations however. The size and form of a colony changes due to the food they can get. For example; people where often smaller before than after the black death due to a change in diet. In some cases this get a long term effect if a group live under a diet under a long time. Thus african slaves where usually taken from parts with big and strong populations. People who later where pretty good at some some kinds of athletic sports. That says very little about anything else, least of all their IQ. That whites are better swimmers is 'cause they've got access to swimmingpools.

would you care to look up the difference between race and species??

sorry ,but your last paragraph isn't worthy of a reply, there must be a book on basic evolutionary processes in a library near you?

	10-04-2002 03:38									#45
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Well you did reply to it... As for race/species those words mean the same in my native tounge (I said IIRC...). That there's a few differences in size etc of people in different areas of the world isn't exacly a support for such thing as 'races'


-----
I can however agree that's it far from the most clever post I've written.

Last edited by Kropotkin on 10-04-2002 at 03:45

	10-04-2002 03:40									#46
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quote: Originally posted by WFHermans Why do jews always try to disprove a theory by personal attacks on the person that happens to be the messenger? Can't you just once try to show if there is a flaw in the theory itself?

What Jews? Someone let Jews in this thread? Damn!

MrFun and I aren't Jews, dumbf*ck. Only Jewish person in this thread is Eli, and he didn't attack anyone.

Damn, racists show how stupid they are again.

	10-04-2002 03:45									#47
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever would you care to look up the difference between race and species??

According to my biology professor, Kropotkin's correct in his statement to which you're responding. Races are a sub-division of a species that does not interbreed. Since human "races" do interbreed, they do not meet the biological definition of race. Course, he was just and old Jew, so waht do he know . . . oh wait, more than you, according to this piece o' crap article you're defending.

	10-04-2002 03:47									#48
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I am actually a 1/64 Jew. Maybe that's why I have a big nose and have problems spending money

	10-04-2002 03:52									#49
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara According to my biology professor, Kropotkin's correct in his statement to which you're responding. Races are a sub-division of a species that does not interbreed. Since human "races" do interbreed, they do not meet the biological definition of race. Course, he was just and old Jew, so waht do he know . . . oh wait, more than you, according to this piece o' crap article you're defending.

so how do we get the word speciation?

	10-04-2002 03:53									#50
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And why do jews only tell the truth when it serves their interest?

	10-04-2002 03:56									#51
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quote: it doesn't have to affect all the brain functions, just subtly alter a few

I didn't say that there were thousands of brain functions (which there may be, depending on how you define a brain function, but that's not at issue), but that there are thousands of genes that control brain functions.

quote: I know it's nor PC these days, but were not all the same, and as soon as we understand that the better!

Yep, the sooner that we understand that niggers are genetically unfit for jobs requiring intelligence, the better.

quote: And why do jews only tell the truth when it serves their interest?

**** off, dipshit.

	10-04-2002 03:57									#52
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quote: Originally posted by WFHermans And why do jews only tell the truth when it serves their interest?

You know, if you just ask politely, I'm sure Ming or Michael would be glad to banish you for a few weeks. There's really no need to act like a moron, if that's what you're after.

	10-04-2002 04:01									#53
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quote: Originally posted by WFHermans And why do jews only tell the truth when it serves their interest?

You won't be missed.

	10-04-2002 04:01									#54
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever so how do we get the word speciation?

Lets say that human 'races' can interbreed. How do we classify those races? A black 'race' would seem as a problem for example since there's quite a few differences in physical apperence amoungst africans even if we remove northafricans... 'Race' about humans is very hard to specify, is usually based on old - more or less racist- definitions and is highly debatable - at best.


----
btw: I'm for free speach and all but couldn't some mod ban that herman-*******?

	10-04-2002 04:03									#55
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Ramo, it's so easy to call someone who doesn't agree with you a racist. It's a total cop out

the comment you put under line of mine makes you the racist, i said no such thing.

Read up on stats, Modes, means etc, it's a big world!!

	10-04-2002 04:04									#56
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever so how do we get the word speciation?

Speciation refers to groups of animals dividing into different "species." That's not at issue here. We're talking about whether phenotypes = biological races, which they do not.

Currently, there is only one human race.

	10-04-2002 04:06									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin btw: I'm for free speach and all but couldn't some mod ban that herman-*******?

See the little yellow triangle in the upper right corner of each post with an exclamation point in it? Simply go to the offending post, press that button, and the mods will be notified.

	10-04-2002 04:08									#58
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i'd always understood 'race' to be a sub class of 'species'

as in a doberman can breed with an greyhound but not a cow?

	10-04-2002 04:10									#59
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oh damn it chegitz! Never noticed that botton before (just thought it was there for show), couldn't help it. Just had to test it.

	10-04-2002 04:11									#60
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quote: Ramo, it's so easy to call someone who doesn't agree with you a racist. It's a total cop out the comment you put under line of mine makes you the racist, i said no such thing.

Uh huh.
So, would you mind telling us why it would be better if everyone "understood" that some "races" are smarter than others, then?

quote: Read up on stats, Modes, means etc, it's a big world!!

No thanks, I know my math. Actually, it would be wise for you to read up on stats, you know sampling errors and the like.