10-04-2002 17:48									#1
	What would be YOUR solution to the Israel Palestinian conflict? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Mine would be:

. multicultural state, possibly federal

. return of all Palestinian land and property taken since 1948 or compensation for same.

. dismantling of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza and compensation for settlers

. Right of return for all Palestinian refugees, including to Israel

. Jerusalem declared an international city administered by the UN and shared by all faiths.

. All Arab lands returned, some areas such as the Golan Heights possibly demilitarised/Un administered.

	10-04-2002 18:00									#2
	Remove this text

Dont forget the concentration camps that will follow.

My solution to the current wave of terror is a pure military one. Operation "Defensive Wall" had proven that when we are inside their cities there is no terror. Day after we left Tul Karem, a suicide bomber from there exploded in Haifa(8 Jews will be buried tommorow thanks to Bush's "I meant what I said").

	10-04-2002 18:08									#3
	Re: What would be YOUR solution to the Israel Palestinian conflict? Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse . Jerusalem declared an international city administered by the UN and shared by all faiths.

such as they did with Danzig and the Memel land?

	10-04-2002 18:10									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Sort of although I was thinking more along the lines of the Vatican.

I think the multicultural state is probably unrealistic but I'm loathe to give up the idea that different ethnic communities should be able to live together in peace.

	10-04-2002 18:41									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

the Memel area was annexed by Lithuania, Danzig by Poland

great solution

	10-04-2002 18:43									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Get rid of the Palestinian Authority.

Institute a Democratic Palestinian State.

If there is resistance, more suicide bombings, then move out all Palestinians and expel them from the area. (This would start WWIII, but after the Western Powers are victrorious, we can democratize the entire region)

Give the Palestinians a chance for a democratic State, but if the terrorism doesn't stop, then they should lose the privilage of living there.

Once all Palestinians are expelled, create an International UN City, and slowly allow Palestinians to return.

	10-04-2002 18:45									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Horsie:

A bit of commie raving:

Dismantle the state of Israel and create in its place the socialist republic of Palestine with equal rights for all.

"The main enemy is in our own country!" - this was what Karl Liebknecht had to say to the workers when imperialists and social democrats were inciting them to the slaughter of their fellow workers in other countries. In this spirit we say to the Jewish and Arab workers: the enemy is in your own camp!

Jewish workers! Get rid of the Zionist provocateurs who tell you to sacrifice yourself on the altar of the state!

Arab worker and fellah! Get rid of the chauvinist provocateurs who are getting you into a mess of blood for their own sake and pocket.

Workers of the two peoples, unite in a common front against imperialism and its agents!

[/commie raving]

	10-04-2002 18:56									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think western world should declare a war against the state of israel. Once it is defeated, administration of the Holy land (Israel/Palestina/Judea/whateveryouwannacallit) should be given to the UN. For me the current state of Israel has no legitimate reason to exist. An apartheid system of people believing they are the superrace is something very, very sick to me. Boring hordes of jewish fools gathered to the settlements from america and russia...Just a buch of schmucks

	10-04-2002 18:58									#9
	Re: What would be YOUR solution to the Israel Palestinian conflict? Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Mine would be: . multicultural state, possibly federal . return of all Palestinian land and property taken since 1948 or compensation for same. . dismantling of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza and compensation for settlers . Right of return for all Palestinian refugees, including to Israel . Jerusalem declared an international city administered by the UN and shared by all faiths. . All Arab lands returned, some areas such as the Golan Heights possibly demilitarised/Un administered.

You solution would simply lead to the destruction of Israel. Here is what would happen in your scenario: Israel would give back land and dismantle its settlements, making it more vulnerable to attacks and making thousands of Israeli citizens angry at the loss of their property and resentful against the Palestinians. Then all the Palestinian so called "refugees" return, completely overwhelming Israel's demographic make-up. Jerusalem is declared an international city but the Arabs would announce that it all belongs to them, and dance in the streets that "Allah has finally saved Al-Aqsa". The Israeli would be denied their religious rights to visit the Wall causing serious anger against thr Palestinians. The bottom line, is that the Israel would become incredibly weak, the Arabs would turn around and cause more attacks and assaults until Isreal were destroyed.

My solution is the following:

1) Dismantle all the Palestinian terrorist groups completely.
2) Require that the PLO completely halt all incitement to violence, and all anti-israeli propaganda. They must cease all "educational" programs that teach antisemitism to young people, and replace them with programs preaching tolerance and the rights of Israel to exist. They must acknowledge Israel's sovereign right to exist.
3)Israel would withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza that was given to the Palestinian and acknowledge the sovereign rights for a Palestinian State.
4) There would be a buffer zone, heavily guarded on the Israeli side, between Israel and the new Palestinian State to prevent any possible terrorist attacks from entering Israeli territory.

	10-04-2002 18:58									#10
	In the name of democracy Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Sava Give the Palestinians a chance for a democratic State, but if the terrorism doesn't stop, then they should lose the privilage of living there.

Tell that to Mr Sharon.
He is against a democratic Palestinan state. All his actions are to push the palestinians into the arms of the terrorists.
And be happy, he will reach his goal. Once all palestinians will be so pissed-of, that they see no other solution than the hizbollah, he will be able to get rid of them righteously (exile, diaspora: if he his 'nice'; genocide if he is 'evil'... only history will tell).
Nice program. Peace at the end.
At least for some years and then... in 2000 years or so... they will come back.
But that's not Mr Sharon's problem.

That what the Israeli's democraticly voted for.

In the name of freedom, in the name of democracy.

	10-04-2002 19:00									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Easy AH. move all the Pals into your suburb in Australia... I bet they would much prefer to live here with us than over there in the desert any day

	10-04-2002 19:09									#12
	Naivete pondering... Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Easy AH. move all the Pals into your suburb in Australia... I bet they would much prefer to live here with us than over there in the desert any day

Actually, I was thinking along the same lines. Since Detroit and the surrounding areas has the largest Arab population outside the Middle East, we would welcome Pal refugees with open arms. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that, and I would be called naive, right? I guess no more naive than some people who think that some tiny, barren strip of land is considered "Holy", and are willing to trade any number of innocent lives to retain possession over it.

Dave

	10-04-2002 19:32									#13
	Got spare money?

I more or less agree with what AH's solution. I posted something along similar lines in another thread. The Israeli settlements should be dismantled in the West Bank and Gaza - the Israeli's had no right to build settlements there and they only serve as a focal point for resentment. What they are doing in Palestine is more or less the same what the English did to the Irish during the 16th-18th centuries, albeit that the English did a more succesful job of displacing the native population.

I don't think that all Palestinian property taken from 1948 should be returned (I'm a bit foggy as to how much the Israeli's actually took in the War of Independence) as it would pobably make the Israeli state unviable, but all the land taken during the 1967 war should be returned (with the exception of the Golan heights - that land was seized from Syria and hence has no relevance to the Palestinian question). They should hold onto this as a bargaining chip for peace with Syria. Any territory which Israel wishes to hold onto and the Palestinians are willing to accede to should be met with compensation.

I believe letting the Palestinian refugees return to Israel proper would be a very bad idea. The Palestinians reproduce so much that they would eventually become the majority population in Israel - the entire Jewish way of life would be under threat. Eventually Israel would cease to exist as the Palestinian majority would vote to become part of Palestine. Even if they live in Israel and take Israeli citizenship, I am of the opinion that the Arabs will never consider themselves to be Israeli and hence have no loyalty to her.

Jerusalem should be declared an international city administered by the UN with freedom for ALL religions to practice their faith and live in peace. I don't believe that the Arabs would then claim it as their own and try and intimidate the other religions there, it wouldn't go down to well in the rest of the world - just let them try, and see what happens

The question is though - if the Israelis gave back the West Bank and Gaza, would it be enough? Or would we then have a situation where the Arabs keep on demanding more and more. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is probably what the Israelis are afraid of if they decide to reach an agreement with the Arabs.

	10-04-2002 19:39									#14
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by our_man I don't believe that the Arabs would then claim it as their own and try and intimidate the other religions there, it wouldn't go down to well in the rest of the world - just let them try, and see what happens

They tried it on September 28th 2001, and we all know what happened.

	10-04-2002 19:40									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I'd probably just carpet bomb the whole area. Problem solved.

	10-04-2002 19:43									#16
	Re: Re: What would be YOUR solution to the Israel Palestinian conflict? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by The diplomat ...making thousands of Israeli citizens angry at the loss of their property and resentful against the Palestinians.

Do you mean as angry and resentful as the Palestinians are now against the Israeli and their settlers?

Good solution, horse!

	10-04-2002 19:43									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by our_man Jerusalem should be declared an international city administered by the UN with freedom for ALL religions to practice their faith and live in peace. I don't believe that the Arabs would then claim it as their own and try and intimidate the other religions there, it wouldn't go down to well in the rest of the world - just let them try, and see what happens

this occured in the war of 1948, the UN declared Jerusalem a non jewish non arab controlled city, but they immediatly took all of it over. and the world did notihng to stop this nor get it back from the arabs till the Israelis took it all in 1967 !!

	10-04-2002 19:49									#18
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Well, there should be a sizeable UN force in the city for preventing that from happening. If the Arabs start taking out UN peacekeepers, action will be taken, at least be the U.S. (good old Europe will want to "talk" about the problem, and try to "understand" where the Arabs are coming from).

And what happened on September 28th Eli?

	10-04-2002 19:53									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The UN hasnt stopped too much fighitng between Israel and Terrorists in Sothern Lebanon

	10-04-2002 19:58									#20
	Remove this text

There are 3 possibilities ..

1) ALL OUT WAR, each side attempts to kill every single jew/arab until there are so few left, there is no problem.

2) Stay as it is, ***-for-tat, and never solve the problem, the hatred will build and build until no.1 happens, or the people get so sick of it all, no.3 happens.

3) Agree to live in peace, whatever the political arrangement.

The jewish side is too haunted by WW2, to go for no.1 .. and the palistinians have not had there fill of death to stop fighting, so it looks like we will be stuck with No.2 for a long long time to come, lets hope no.3 eventually comes to pass.

Building a wall around israel reminds me of a French pre-ww2 venture and like that (sorry, I can't find a correct spelling for it) the enemy will simply walk around it ..

	10-04-2002 20:40									#21
	Suffering from ads?

Viceroy - The Maginot Line.

DetroitDave - Yeah, I wish we could solve it by giving the Palestinians a home elsewhere, but I seriously doubt they would accept that.

Horse - not bad overall, I'd say, but the returning or property or compensation for it would be the real sticky point. Just look at how inflexible each side is on the "right of return" issue.

I am starting to believe that one of two things must happen:

1) Intervention by the UN, with overwhelming force. Result - a Bosnia-type situation

2) Let them fight it out. Withdraw all int'l aid to both sides and tell them to give us a call when they've had their fill of blood.

-Arrian

	10-04-2002 23:20									#22
	Re: Re: What would be YOUR solution to the Israel Palestinian conflict? Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by The diplomat ...making thousands of Israeli citizens angry at the loss of their property and resentful against the Palestinians.

That is... laughable... hillarious! And very sad. How does one respond to such a statement? The only thing to do is highlight it and separate it.

As to Alexander's ideas

	11-04-2002 00:22									#23
	Increase the size of your Attachments

First step:

Get the UN OUT of any deal, they do everything ass-backwards.

Next, devide WB along racial lines, if needed exchange settlements to avoid Kashmir-like problems.
The Jews have just as much right as the Pals there, it was Jordian land till ceded to Israel.

Give ENTIRE west bank to Palestine, as well as motor acess to WB area.

Jerusalem to be divided between Jews/Pals on even basis, free access to both sides to all religious sites.

Both sides to have closed border and buffer zone.

Pals MUST agree to stop and punish terror, Israel MUST agree to compensate Pals for any land lost and illeagal killings.

All Muslim states must cease attacks on Jews and state-sponcered anti-Jewish crusades.

Buffer zone force to consist of US, Russian, EU, Arab states and IDF forces on one for one basis, so no area dominated by any political block.

All known terror suspects must be turned over to justice, and cease further attacks.
Arafat may be allowed to run PA, however, if any further terror is detected from him or his organization, he is to be siezed and shipped to the Hauge to stand trial for crimes against humanity.
Sharon must answer alligations of war crimes stemming from 1982 Lebbenon offensive.

That would be about it, both sides would gain, both would lose.

I might add there isn't a hoot in hell of this happening.

	11-04-2002 00:33									#24
	Re: In the name of democracy Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Dry Tell that to Mr Sharon. He is against a democratic Palestinan state. All his actions are to push the palestinians into the arms of the terrorists. And be happy, he will reach his goal. Once all palestinians will be so pissed-of, that they see no other solution than the hizbollah, he will be able to get rid of them righteously (exile, diaspora: if he his 'nice'; genocide if he is 'evil'... only history will tell). Nice program. Peace at the end. At least for some years and then... in 2000 years or so... they will come back. But that's not Mr Sharon's problem. That what the Israeli's democraticly voted for. In the name of freedom, in the name of democracy.

Now why exactly do you think that the Israelis chose Sharon? A few years ago, he had no chance whatever to be PM, or in any serious position in government. Hamas and the Palestinian extremists pro-peace Israeli moderates and leftists, so that they could force a confrontation. Now they got Sharon, and like it or not, he'll kick their asses square. They got more than they bargained for.

I'd send the Pals off to Horse's neighborhood too.

Yank - there isn't a hoot in hell of any sane solution.

	11-04-2002 00:36									#25
	Re: What would be YOUR solution to the Israel Palestinian conflict? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Mine would be: . multicultural state, possibly federal

Neither side wants this so how do you implement.

quote: . return of all Palestinian land and property taken since 1948 or compensation for same.

Since the Arabs started the war, lets get Syria, Egypt, and Jordan to pich in and pay some of the compensation.

quote: . dismantling of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza and compensation for settlers

Not a bad idea actually. Jewish settlements only serve to make the sitution worse.

quote: . Right of return for all Palestinian refugees, including to Israel

Would they not be better of in the West Bank among other pal. Putting them in Israel would simply start the problem all over again.

quote: . Jerusalem declared an international city administered by the UN and shared by all faiths.

Take the UN out of the equation and you might have something.

quote: . All Arab lands returned, some areas such as the Golan Heights possibly demilitarised/Un administered.

Again the Syrians don't need the Golan Heights if they intend to live with Israel in peace. Besides, haven't they occuppied enough land in Lebannon to make up for the heights?

	11-04-2002 00:48									#26
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Split Jerusalem

Israel half to Israel

Palestine half to Palestine

dual control over the religious sections with the Vatican

Give Golan heights to Israel (what is needed for defense purposes)

give all the rest of the disputed land to Palestine

have the Arab Countries plus Israel split payments to the refuges who can then live in Palestine

Palestine must be Demilitarized for a period of ten years

Palestine and Israel must not teach hate in schools or spread it over the media

Palestine will have a US Govenor over the course of 10 years to make sure they abide by the rules, he will be in charge of watching the media, keeping terrorism down, and the like

Settlers in Palestine land can decide to stay in Palestine or return to Israel

Israel cannot venture into Palestine land (militarily) unless permition is given by the US (in case they are attacked)

Arab states make peace with Israel

Israel and Palestine no longer have culpability for past wrong doing (nor do heads of state)

Future Terrorist acts will cause reparations to be paid by the offending side (in terms of Land or Money)

Jon Miller

	11-04-2002 02:13									#27
	Increase Your PM Length

AH, if it's all going to be one big state, why ethnically cleanse all Jews in the West Bank and Gaza?

Kamrat: How would this end the conflict? The establishment of Communism in Eastern europe only heightened that region's ethnic conflicts, and AFAIK the same is true in Asia.

I can't honestly give my opinion on how the conflict should be solved because I really don't have all the facts. The leaders involved have intelligence agencies to find out things we can only guess at. I could post a fantasy solution, but for a real enough program to be useful, I'd need more info.

One thought though: I'm starting to think that the internal divisions within each side are as detrimental to peace as the larger conflict. It seems like a big part of what's driving this is domestic considerations and internal political maneuvering rather than actual ideology and religion.

	11-04-2002 02:52									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

My idea:

1) Eliminate all Israeli settlements in the West Bank, seeing as they are illegal.

2) Have Israel pull back from the West Bank and Gaza Strip and create a state of Palestine.

3) Make Jerusalem an international city, administered by the UN (or, if we'd be willing, the US).

4) Have fair, impartial, and democratic elections in Palestine, once against overseen by the UN (maybe make Jimmy Carter in charge of it).

5) Force normalization between Israel and all Arab states

This is a plan where the UN could shine (and it desperately needs something like this).

	11-04-2002 03:04									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Trying to solve this problem is like trying to solve the American Civil War without bloodshed. It has gone too far and there is too much hatred now. I hope that it does not happen but a military confrontation is now inevitable. This problem will be solved by a full scale war. What is my solution? Try to keep the war from spreading and when the participating countries in the middle east are in ruins see if anyone wants to do something different then.

	11-04-2002 03:09									#30
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Secular, democratic state, Jerusalem the capital with UN supervision.