10-04-2002 22:44									#31
	"You're gonna die, gonna die, gonna die for your government!" Put an end to popups!

No, I'm not. I will never die, nor kill for a state. But I am willing to die (or kill) for people.

	10-04-2002 23:03									#32
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No, or kill other people for my country. I respect my and their lives more than that. Let the politicians die for their mistakes but not people who have nothing to do with it.

	10-04-2002 23:24									#33
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Of course I'm willing to die for my country.

You people would die for other people, but not for a country. People are the country. And people are just as bad as countries, maybe because they make up the countries . I have yet to meet a person as honest as myself. People are scum . I have yet to find someone worth dying for outside of immediate family I grew up with. I have yet to meet anyone with as good of morals as myself. Yes even Speer and his pretend make believe morals couldn't hold up to mine.

Now where was I. I did my time in the military. I was willing to fight the Taliban, but that was just my rage talking. Although I still have a desire to buy a plane Ticket to Afghanistan and find OBL and the Taliban leader. But I'm trying to get frequent flyer miles along with that. But I admit I have no desire to go to the middle east to fight someone else's war (Israel's ). I'm perfectly happy staying within the confines of the U.S.

Yes it would be ideal to live in some fantasy world where everyone in the world is equal and their civilization is just as good as yours. But that is not the case. Some civilizations are better than others. And I'm not going to let my civilization be destroyed by a bully.

	11-04-2002 00:19									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Carver If Saddam lands an amphibious division on Miami Beach, yes I will fight to the death.

I'd be willing to let him get off with a warning just for taking Miami Beach.



When it comes down to actually fighting in real life war, your not exactly thinking about flag and country. Your thinking about the guy on your left and the guy on your right. That's what men die for in combat. Things like democracy and country are what you think about back home when your about to sign your name on the dotted line. Least that's what those that have been there have told me.

	11-04-2002 00:23									#35
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I would support fighting

I would die

I might be willing to kill, I will have to think about that

Jon Miller

	11-04-2002 01:32									#36
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Probably. Depends. I'd have gone to Afghanistan, but not Vietnam.

:: Waits to hear how he's being hypocritical as both were imperialist wars fought by the US to expand neoimperialism::

	11-04-2002 01:38									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Of course I'm willing to die for my country. You people would die for other people, but not for a country. People are the country. And people are just as bad as countries, maybe because they make up the countries . I have yet to meet a person as honest as myself. People are scum . I have yet to find someone worth dying for outside of immediate family I grew up with. I have yet to meet anyone with as good of morals as myself. Yes even Speer and his pretend make believe morals couldn't hold up to mine.

Is this the Twilight Zone or has Dissident always been this stuck up?

Oh, and Faelin. You´re a hypocrite...

	11-04-2002 01:44									#38
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No.

I might die for certain people, or for a cause I felt was just, but I'd never fight, kill, and/or die on my country's say-so, or for any cause that does not directly affect myself and people I care about. Note: Economic effects aren't enough, either.

	11-04-2002 02:02									#39
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will i go and die for my country in the middle of some desert to kill some innocent arab boys who don't know any better... no

will i go and die for my country if they come knocking on my door in arms, wouldn't have to think for a second (not litterally my door... the door of the country... ugh nevermind)

	11-04-2002 02:04									#40
	Re: "You're gonna die, gonna die, gonna die for your government!" Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Ramo No, I'm not. I will never die, nor kill for a state. But I am willing to die (or kill) for people.

aye.

if bush drafted me to fight the taliban, i would have gone.

if bush tries to draft me to fight North Korea, Lybia, or Iraq, i'm killing my brother for the 4A.

	11-04-2002 02:06									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Caesar the Great will i go and die for my country in the middle of some desert to kill some innocent arab boys who don't know any better... no will i go and die for my country if they come knocking on my door in arms, wouldn't have to think for a second (not litterally my door... the door of the country... ugh nevermind)

this reminds me of a comedy special i heard not to long ago...

there was a cuban-american preformer who was talking about cuba, and then he said, "you know why cuba never invaded America? because if we landed on Florida and started working our way up, the Hicks with their shotguns and their whiskey would kill us all before the marines even heard about it."

-- homeland security

	11-04-2002 02:07									#42
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I'll take it a step further. I oppose fighting Iraq, but I do not oppose fighting, with any and all force, anyone who tries to make me.

	11-04-2002 02:16									#43
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Yes,
Ja,
Da,
Oui,
Si,
Po,
...

only
if
by
country
you
mean
the
people
and
not
some
totalitarian
dictator
...
Nikola

	11-04-2002 02:29									#44
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I'd be willing to risk dying for my country. But just plain dying, as in no chance of survival, I don't know if I've got that in me.

	11-04-2002 02:31									#45
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quote: I'd be willing to risk dying for my country. But just plain dying, as in no chance of survival, I don't know if I've got that in me.

At least you're honest - most people are full of ****, when they say they'de die...oh really? They think they could psychologically handle doing something they KNOW would kill them when they have an option not to. Bullshit! That's against human nature.

	11-04-2002 02:36									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Carver I will die to defend my nation but not to defend my nation's hegemony.

I think most of us ought to be able to agree to that, if it's a real threat. Unfortunately, it's that kind of thinking that gave Europe WWI, as everyone voted for a war of national defense.

I think the world would be a much better place if no one ever fought for their country.

	11-04-2002 02:42									#47
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Yep.

True - I'd rather not to.

But with all honour, it would be only hypocritical to behave the way the commies here behave.

Your state gives you protection, provides you with human and civil rights, pays you when you have no job or are sick, and makes sure you'll enjoy most of what the world has to offer.

You are all childish and hypocritical brats. Talking about ambiguous "interests" and "exploitation" when it's hardly done, and if so - for your sake.

The "power to the people" shirts you are wearing is probably made by poor 15 y/o slobs. What did you do to stop that, other than whining, and trashing other people's property?

Why, instead of being a brat, you don't go to the areas of exploitation and do some good. Or get into politics and try to stop the exploitation.

Instead, you support other hooligans who destroy and loot and bad mouth those who make sure you have enough grain to have bread on your table.


Israel has done things for me. It saved me from the USSR when no one else would. It provided me help and protection. It provided spies who came to USSR and aided Jews.

Israel has given me the opportunity to enjoy western standards of living, even though many people here don't enjoy it. It's all education dependant.

Israeli soldiers, are daying daily, to make sure, I keep on living, bringing good to the country.

These are my people. This is my country. My leaders were selected by my people, who put their trust in them. No matter whether one way or another is right, most of my countrymen support this leader and his way, and I can't fail them because I don't agree with it, much in the same way, I won't abandon my family over petty disagreements.

Most of you "modern day commies \ anarchists" are brats who've had a not so difficult life. You enjoyed the fruits of your country's efforts and take it for granted, and think that you can distribute it freely to everyone just because they possibly morally deserve it.

I have some commie \ anarchist friends of my own in real life. None of them are poor, or can consider them selved of the "working" class or those "exploited".

Instead, they are mostly teenagers, who are used to getting everything for free, and think that that is the way the world should work. Everyone gets everything for free, everyone have unlimited liberties. A very pink view of the "natural order".

	11-04-2002 02:50									#48
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Yes I would, I have put my life on the line and I would do it again. And for nothing more than the protection of this country, so people like David Floyd, Wiglaf, MrFun...all of you can play around on these boards and say what you want about whatever you want. So you can carry your guns. Go to the store and buy whatever you want.

It's the price of freedom. I have been and always will be willing to pay it.

Whoever said that you are fighting for the guy on your left and the guy on your right is 100% correct. But those people didn't JOIN the armed services with that ideal, that came later.

	11-04-2002 02:51									#49
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Wow. Way to totally mis-characterize those of us who won't die because we believe our nation has no moral authority to force us to.

	11-04-2002 02:54									#50
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Tub, no offense, but you have never put your life on the line in a situation where the freedoms we enjoy are threatened. Even if I concede WW2 the Nazis/Japanese were a threat - and I don't - I seriously doubt you fought in WW2, and Korea, Vietnam, etc., were US proxy wars that had nothing to do with freedom, but rather influence.

	11-04-2002 02:58									#51
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Wow. Way to totally mis-characterize those of us who won't die because we believe our nation has no moral authority to force us to.

What an odd sentiment from someone thinking of joining the Army.

	11-04-2002 02:59									#52
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quote: What an odd sentiment from someone thinking of joining the Army.

I have nothing against volunteerism - especially as I would have a non-combat job

	11-04-2002 03:01									#53
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd I have nothing against volunteerism - especially as I would have a non-combat job

IIRC, they can order you to fight if needed.

	11-04-2002 03:02									#54
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yeah maybe that does sound stuck up. I must be spending too much time on the internet. back to the real world for me.

	11-04-2002 03:05									#55
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No matter what Jane Fonda said at your school, David; South Vietnam was a seperate country than North Vietnam. They wanted help.
The French left the U.S. holding the bag alone.
South Korea doesn't want to be communist.
Do you blame them? Look how badly the North sucks.

As far as the uptheass part about WWII not being a threat, I won't even bother.

	11-04-2002 03:09									#56
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quote: IIRC, they can order you to fight if needed.

Of course they can. Why the hell would they order an Army lawyer to go fight?

quote: No matter what Jane Fonda said at your school, David; South Vietnam was a seperate country than North Vietnam. They wanted help.

BFD. It wasn't worth 58,000 - or even 1 - American lives.

Ditto for Korea.

But, especially in Vietnam, the average civilian wanted us out.

	11-04-2002 03:11									#57
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Why the hell would they order an Army lawyer to go fight?

If he pissed off a general.

The point of that post was to show you that there is no such thing as a completely non-combat position.

	11-04-2002 03:15									#58
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I know, but the odds would be low...and the cost/benefit analysis favors me, in my opinion.

	11-04-2002 03:17									#59
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What's the point of this thread? To make totally pointless pseudo-"discussions" while we're all sitting in front of some PC, probably bored or stuped... thinking our opinions matter to anyone but us...

If you want to talk about serious subjects go out and talk to real people face-to-tace, that's what I think.

	11-04-2002 03:19									#60
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Wow. Way to totally mis-characterize those of us who won't die because we believe our nation has no moral authority to force us to.

Your nation hasn't the moral authority to force you to. But it shouldn't have to.

You should have the moral integrity to do it on your own.