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If there isn't a dire need for troops, why would I join the service? It's a waste of time.
Sure its good for people with no place else to go, or gun freaks who just need to shoot people.
Not serving in the military has nothing to do with wanting a war or not. I know the horrors of war and have had many family members involved in wars.
IMO, to solve the world's problems, there needs to be a decisive war where one ideology reigns supreme. War (not conflicts) unites. Look at the result of some of the major wars.
Civil War: United America.... this if often called the real Revolution.
WWII: United Western Europe
The United States has the potential, by conventional means, to form a set of task forces that can prevent nuclear launches by every power. If I were in command, I would develop the capability to strategically disable every non-allied nations' nuclear capabilities to prevent MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). Sure, the casualties would probably eclipse one billion, but if there is a decisive victory, it would usher in a golden age of mankind never before seen.
Just for the record, many military strategists have never served in the military. The military trains you how to be a grunt, not a leader.
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markusf
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamrat X
Yes, there is such a thing as private morale code. But it´s easier to deny responsibility by claiming that you only obeyed orders.
IIRC that was the most common defense in the Nürnberg trials after WWII. "Hey, I didn´t know that they killed all those jews, and besides I was just obeying orders"
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What about the people who droped the a-bomb in japan,
shouldn't they be tried for crimes against humanity? Or people behind US foriegn policy that kills millions?
In every conflict those in power on the losing side are the "evil" ones and are punished. Those in power on the winning side are immune to ridicule.
quote:
Or in Vietnam: "Hey I didn´t know that all those women and children weren´t really VC. But what the hell they´re only gooks, and besides I was only obeying orders...
Well, that makes it alrighty then, does it?   |
IF the US where to invade mexico what would happen to the average person there? Pretty much absolutely nothing. Who would be the losers in that situation? The only people who have anything to lose are those currently in power, and those with a lot of money and investments in infustructure. So in the end both sides come up with propaganda to try and make people fight for them.
When the US gets into big wars, its not because its "just" or fighting oppression etc. When people die fighting for the US they don't die "liberating" some oppressed people, they are dieing to save US economic interests, such as oil, or the right to open a macdonalds or the right for US companies to have access to cheap labour etc etc etc. Why should people die fighting for the richer to get richer?
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markusf
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quote:
Originally posted by GP
Frigging worm geek. I bet everybody can come up with some excuse like that. Guess what? Maybe your brains would be useful at the front. But without guts or leadership ability...maybe it would be better to keep you protected by others. |
uhm... If the US was in danger of being destroyed wouldn't that be the result of a nuclear or chemical war? So there wouldn't be a front.. Just a few people in control rooms pushing launch buttons...
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TCO
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Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
The United States has the potential, by conventional means, to form a set of task forces that can prevent nuclear launches by every power. If I were in command, I would develop the capability to strategically disable every non-allied nations' nuclear capabilities to prevent MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). Sure, the casualties would probably eclipse one billion, but if there is a decisive victory, it would usher in a golden age of mankind never before seen. |
Stick to video games, son.
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Just for the record, many military strategists have never served in the military. The military trains you how to be a grunt, not a leader. |
This is based on how much service? Which military strategists? (FYI: Sid Meier is not Alfred Thayer Mahan....)
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markusf
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quote:
Originally posted by GP
Markus,
1. Wombat posited the front.
2. People have been talking about pushbutton war for the last 50 years...we ain't there yet. |
Ok.. What possible scenario can you think of that would require the US commiting more then a million troops? The US has the ability to load nuclear weapons on bombers and fly them around the world, and they would sooner do that then commit large number of troops.
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Immortal Wombat
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in perpetuity
Dec 2000
time: 05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by GP
Frigging worm geek. I bet everybody can come up with some excuse like that. Guess what? Maybe your brains would be useful at the front. But without guts or leadership ability...maybe it would be better to keep you protected by others. |
No, fuck off GP. I have every respect for people who will fight and risk death, and die for their country for any reason.
But I'm not a soldier. The question is "are you prepared". No I'm not. If I joined the army (which I won't) then maybe I'll get prepared. But the whole war cannot be fought on the front, and there is no point having people there who are wasting resources, and causing problems, when they could be a hell of a lot more use away from the action. Its not a case of pussying out, but I would help my country (any country) more off the front than on.
Maybe my brains would be useful at the front. Maybe they'd be as useful or more useful at the back. Does it matter?
And FYI, I can lead, and I'm not gutless. I'm pointing out that wasting a life, rather than using it as effectively as it can be, is fruitless, and pointless.
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Guynemer
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Well, maybe if you didn't wear lederhosen all the time. EDIT: didn't know how to spell lederhosen.
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Sirotnikov
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<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamrat X
Siro, you must be the perfect soldier... Don´t question your superiors and be grateful for the chance to die for your country... Your body is just simmering with nationalist testosterone isn´t it? 
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Questioning my superiors when it comes to tactical decisions and illegal orders - sure.
Questioning strategy ? much less.
If ~70% of Israel voted Sharon in office, and supports the incursion as a strategic move, I as a citizen do not have the moral right, to refuse support of my country just because of political difference of opinion.
I will however disobay illegal orders of targeting civilians or anything similar to it, if it exists.
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...or behaves like Israel? |
Yeah, right, our soldiers go from house to house and check for terrorists.
That's soooo equivalent with putting 7 million people in the gas chambers.
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How come I´m not surprised? |
You somehow feel yourself superior. Fine 
Wanna have a philosophical discussion?
My whole point, is that moralism is futile since it has to have a society in which to exist.
And society, which you usually reject, is a tribe.
You prefer to define your society according to the people you currently share opinions with, and no one else.
I however, devide people into different circles or "tribes" with me having different relations with different tribes.
A "tribe" is my society. This society gives me power and rights as an individual.
Morality does not exist outside of society, and society, so I have conclued so far, must be comprised of some sor of tribalism, whether on a national or a smaller (or a larger) scale.
You infact prove this point, by having your own morality with in your society, and applying it differently to members of your society and those who aren't.
For instance, you're willing to forgive agression of people who are in your society. For you, your society is those who share your values.
For me, my most important non-private society is people who share my history and heritage - israelis and jews.
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Natan
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New York State
Sep 2000
time: 00:18
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Urban Ranger, Hitler was a vegetarian too, I guess that must be dangerous as well. It was tribalism (Russian, British, Norwegian, Greek, Yugoslav, Russian, Polish and French Nationalisms, not to mention a few other varieties) were what motivated many if not most of those who helped defeat Hitler. Saddam Hussein's Iraq and the Gambino gang were run on family lines, I guess we'd better stop sending mothers' and fathers' day cards.
Paiktis: Israel has the same thing, AFAIK most armies do. Ilegal orders have to be disobeyed. In the IDF lexicon, such orders are said to be "black flag" orders, because that's what they're supposed to raise in the soldiers' minds.
Pretty much every one of my ancestors who came to this country would have been murdered had they not left their home countries. That America let them in, and even more than that, enabled them to prosper in a tolerant environment, means a lot to me. I want to preserve that, and I'm willing to fight to preserve that. To me, the argument that we owe no love for or loyalty to our country because our freedoms are inherent is like a child who says he has no love for or loyalty to his parents because he has a right to be fed, clothed, and educated.
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11-04-2002 19:05
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