12-04-2002 02:06									#1
	Siro goes to to pre-military training Increase the size of your Attachments

Since I am supposed to be drafted to the IDF in a year and some, and I'm currently in 11th grade (out of 12), time has come for military training.

Until now it was made in 12th grade, but the military decided to make it earlier, to allow for better integration with army standards and rules.


What does it mean?

It means that on April 28th, in the morning, me and my classmates and several other classes of the 11th grade, will be taken for 5 days to a military base in the Negev.

What will we do there?
- Hear lectures about IDF, stadards, behaviour, rules etc.
- Do some very basic military training, to become familiar with military routine.


We are allowed to take pictures, and I'll probably do so and post here.



Any advice from the military pros?

	12-04-2002 02:09									#2
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Thumb rule number one: 75% of all officers are insecure bastards that couldn't function in the real world. Number two: don't get brainwashed (or more so )

	12-04-2002 02:10									#3
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Yeah, it could be worse, Krop. He could think the same as Eli .

	12-04-2002 02:11									#4
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No offense, but you shouldn't let your government violate your natural rights like that. I'd dodge.

	12-04-2002 02:11									#5
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אההה

אז גם בארץ מחנכים ילדים למלחמה מגיל צעיר.
הישראלים תאבי הדם האלה מאשימים את הפלסטינים, אבל גם פה מלמדים ילדים בכיתה "יא לירות באמ-שש עשרה.

אני פוחד שכשנתעורר מחר, נמצא את עצמנו מול איזה מאה הודעות בסגנון הזה.

	12-04-2002 02:12									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Yeah, it could be worse, Krop. He could think the same as Eli .

I'm the one who managed to dodge it.

	12-04-2002 02:15									#7
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Eli is a true leader and role model, screaming for blood and at the same time hiding behind his mothers skirts like a little kid.

	12-04-2002 02:17									#8
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I'd dodge draft unless there was a serious war.

But then I'd be useless in the army anyway.

	12-04-2002 02:31									#9
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Actually, it's not really "training". The goal of the whole thingie is to reduce the shock you get when joining the army.

They prefer you to learn that, as Kropotkin said, 75% of the officers are morons, in the easy way. And that if you go combatant you shouldnt expect for anything better than a tent.

	12-04-2002 02:41									#10
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon But then I'd be useless in the army anyway.

How would that be different from your civilian life?

	12-04-2002 02:44									#11
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd No offense, but you shouldn't let your government violate your natural rights like that. I'd dodge.

No offense, but it's selfish cowards hiding behind high rhetoric of who've assisted in the downfall and destruction of the societies and cultures they're a part of. A lot of places in the world have no real security threats, or else have an abundance of people who will do their part, to cover for the selfish yellow-bellies. Some parts of the world don't have that luxury.

There aren't any ****ing "natural rights" when you've got your back to the sea and a whole bunch of pissed off people with Kalashnikovs in your face who want to see you and your family and your people all swim.

And what "natural rights" are those, DF? The right to **** around with other people because it's entertaining? Where did that "right" come from. Let's not go into your little escapade, shall we?

Eli - did you get out of the whole deal, or just this little fun in the sun boyscout exercise?

	12-04-2002 02:46									#12
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Eli - did you get out of the whole deal, or just this little fun in the sun boyscout exercise?

IIRC, he lied on a test so that he could get out of any possible frontline duty and so he wouldn't scare his mom.

	12-04-2002 03:01									#13
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Good luck, and if you ever see action don't try to be a hero.

	12-04-2002 03:04									#14
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon I'd dodge draft unless there was a serious war. But then I'd be useless in the army anyway.

\

In the US you'd have no problem escaping the military.

Don't ask Don't tell

	12-04-2002 03:07									#15
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"Any advice from the military pros?"

I am not really a "pro" but my little tour during the Vietnam war sneaking around in a submarine taught me to grin and bear it. Military experience is very useful in later life because you learn to discipline yourself as you are forced into doing things that you really would prefer not to do. Follow orders unless you really think that you are fighting for an imoral cause. In that case then you will probably have to go to jail. If you are going in and you are behind the effort then do what you are told. The time to question is now not after you are in a military structure. A lot of people suddenly become conciencious objectors when they get scared. The best way to overcome fear is to do what you must anyway. Eventually fear becomes something you just walk over. And God be with you my friend. My tour was not the high point of my life morally but God seemed to use it for good later.

	12-04-2002 03:08									#16
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Eli - did you get out of the whole deal, or just this little fun in the sun boyscout exercise?

Just the "boyscout exercise".
As for the whole deal, I'll try to get into one of the IDF nerdy computer units, and if this fails I'll have to choose between being a jobnik in some supply base or passing through the medical commision again to get combatant profile and then go to one of the infantry units. The choice is pretty obvious, you dont get the women without the gun.

quote: IIRC, he lied on a test so that he could get out of any possible frontline duty and so he wouldn't scare his mom.

Bullshit. The only reason I tried to avoid(I dont know yet if it was succesfull) combatant duty is because I know that it will be much more useful for myself and the Army(mainly myself though) in other places. As I said to MtG, if I dont manage to get into the place where my true skills lie, the parents' dissagreement will not stop me from going to my next preferable duty(as combatant).

	12-04-2002 03:08									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Eli is a true leader and role model, screaming for blood and at the same time hiding behind his mothers skirts like a little kid.

What do you mean his "mother's" skirt? He's pulling a Klinger and putting on his own skirt! How else do you think he got out of military service?

	12-04-2002 03:10									#18
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quote: Originally posted by orange What do you mean his "mother's" skirt? He's pulling a Klinger and putting on his own skirt! How else do you think he got out of military service?

I didnt avoid military service you moron.

	12-04-2002 03:14									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Eli I didnt avoid military service you moron.

That's some great acting. He's even got PMS down!

	12-04-2002 03:18									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Bullshit. The only reason I tried to avoid(I dont know yet if it was succesfull) combatant duty is because I know that it will be much more useful for myself and the Army(mainly myself though) in other places.

I knew the lieing and fraud were based on some bullshit, selfish reason. I just couldn't figure out which one. Mea culpa.

	12-04-2002 03:22									#22
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I knew the lieing and fraud were based on some bullshit, selfish reason. I just couldn't figure out which one. Mea culpa.

Selfish? Yes, partially.
Bullshit? No. This desicion will be maybe the most important one in my life.

	12-04-2002 03:27									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Bullshit? No.

Yes. This decision displays a severe lack of character on your part.

	12-04-2002 05:35									#24
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MtG -

quote: No offense, but it's selfish cowards hiding behind high rhetoric of who've assisted in the downfall and destruction of the societies and cultures they're a part of.

No offense, but it's the people who are willing to be "drafted" to wage wars on others who are responsible for these downfalls, the downfalls of their victims and their own when their rampaging runs out of steam.

quote: A lot of places in the world have no real security threats, or else have an abundance of people who will do their part, to cover for the selfish yellow-bellies.

I have the right to defend myself, and I have the right to defend you, but I don't have the right to defend you and your theft of someone else's property. And calling people "selfish yellow bellies" for not helping you keep the lands you've stolen is absurd and hypocritical, no offense.

quote: There aren't any ****ing "natural rights" when you've got your back to the sea and a whole bunch of pissed off people with Kalashnikovs in your face who want to see you and your family and your people all swim.

Natural rights exist regardless of whether or not others respect them - that's why people will defend themselves quite strenuously when put upon.

quote: And what "natural rights" are those, DF? The right to **** around with other people because it's entertaining? Where did that "right" come from. Let's not go into your little escapade, shall we?

How is David ****ing around with others for opposing the draft? It's those who advocate the draft who are ****ing around with others.

	12-04-2002 05:52									#25
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The most important thing in the military Eli is to be a team player - just do what you're told and you'll be fine - enjoy it - military training is fun.

And hopefully one day you'll be able to tell me why Israel has the most untidy and badly dressed soldiers in the world

Oh btw, I'm a commissioned officer and that is something you should aspire to from what I've seen of you - don't listen to the knuckleheads and non conformists here - as an officer you can do a lot of good for your troops and those you come into contact with.

You also get better pay, housing and food

But of coruse the main reason to become an officer is girls will always go for the officer over an "other rank" as we call them here

And you have no probs with the parents because they assume if you're an officer you're also a gentleman

	12-04-2002 05:57									#26
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quote: Any advice from the military pros?

Throw the grenade, drop the pin. Don't mix those up.

	12-04-2002 05:58									#27
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What do you say to Israelis joining the military? Do you wish them luck or something?

DF: In Israel, AFAIK draft dodging identifies you with the fundamentalist right - if you go to a yeshiva (a religious school) you don't have to serve in the military.

	12-04-2002 06:12									#28
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Just remember Siro - being an offcier is a HUGE chick magnet

	12-04-2002 06:19									#29
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Yes. This decision displays a severe lack of character on your part.

Easy to say as an American. I don't know about you, but if I were an Israeli kid still in high school I'd be terrified of having to fight out in those camps. I'm not intending to bash on you, Dino, but it's just not a situation I think you've been in, and you shouldn't be passing judgement on somebody who is in it.

	12-04-2002 06:25									#30
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MtG's right that some parts of the world have to face situations where "natural rights" and "individual rights" sound less like high philosophy and more like a fancy suicide note. I'm glad and thankful that my country of residence and my country of citizenship have not been forced into such situations for over half a century. It saddens me deeply that everyone doesn't have the security of knowing war with your neighbours is an impossibility.


Weep for the dead Siro.
And weep for the living.
Do what you must to protect those innocent
On both sides.
Never forget your humanity even when it forgets you.