12-04-2002 16:28									#1
	Ctp Pbem Rankings 12th April 2002 Full PM-box? Change here!

P..NAME.......................SCORE..WINS...LOSSES..LOC...
1. LUNG.......................30.8350..58.....23......AUS.SW
2. The.Birdman................29.2740..159....125.....DEN
3. Swissy.....................27.9230..56.....7.......USA.Il
4. Blackice...................26.3010..6......6.......CAN
5. Hunter.....................26.1910..28.....17......NZL
6. Klair......................25.4370..48.....0.......Fra
7. Kambei.....................24.6440..3......1.......FRA
8. Nimrod.....................24.5800..8......5.......Unknown
9. Mobius.....................23.3120..56.....10......GBR.EN
10. Don........................23.1990..2......1.......unknown
11. Faded.Glory................22.2950..44.....44......USA
12. Rick.Elkins................22.0740..41.....15......USA.NY
13. Rubbduck...................21.5850..32.....2.......GER
14. DEVIL......................21.4480..22.....8.......LAT
15. Kralj_Matjaz...............21.2470..70.....26......SLO
16. JESUMI.....................21.0000..0......0.......ESP
17. Siderakis..................21.0000..0......0.......FRA
18. Quinns.....................20.8500..99.....68......USA.CA
19. Stavros....................20.2670..113....81......GER
20. Alesia.....................20.2610..1......2.......GBR.SCO
21. Notuncommon................20.1000..24.....15......DEN
22. 420........................20.0530..32.....23......USA.IL
23. The_True_Demosthenes.......20.0120..13.....58......GBR.EN
24. Flameflash.................19.9160..0......1.......MacLand
25. Berxpert...................19.7380..90.....26......MEX
26. ZobozeWarrior..............19.5900..44.....26......FRA
27. JPWW.......................19.2770..35.....22......USA.GA
28. Maestro....................19.0760..10.....18......BEL
29. Keygen.....................18.8260..40.....37......GRE
30. Max.Webster................18.7810..40.....28......CAN
31. Gavrushka..................18.6240..4......6.......GBR.EN
32. Slamp......................18.6010..37.....24......FRA
33. Arthur.....................18.4660..22.....54......USA.UT
34. Dugrik.....................18.3410..48.....51......USA.TX
35. Vitolg.....................18.0780..11.....20......CAN
36. ST.Jon.....................17.3780..64.....100.....GBR.EN
37. Solver.....................16.8580..21.....70......LAT
38. Franses....................16.2540..46.....44......NED
39. Nuke.Boy...................15.5870..70.....74......USA.FL
40. Eohian.....................15.5660..3......21......USA.CA
41. Cuaich.....................14.5300..7......21......CAN
42. FRAZE......................14.4650..52.....60......GBR
43. PAUL.......................14.4250..51.....93......NED
44. King.Thor..................13.0730..63.....140.....USA.FL
45. Krash......................12.9460..24.....34......GBR.EN
46. Phoenixcager...............12.7590..14.....50......SGP
47. SYORSIS....................12.3800..9......33......GBR.EN
48. Darth.Viper................11.2040..11.....38......NED

Each player stakes 10% of their score on the outcome of a game, these 10%s are added together and divided according to position in the game dictated by powergraph order every x9th turn.

The present system rewards higher ranked players less for victories against lower ranked players and vica versa... the % reallocation based on 10% stake is:

PLAYERS
2..1ST..67%..2nd..33%
3..1ST..54%..2nd..31%..3rd..15%
4..1ST..46%..2nd..29%..3rd..17%..4th..8%
5..1ST..41%..2nd..27%..3rd..17%..4th..10%..5th..5%
6..1ST..36%..2nd..25%..3rd..17%..4th..11%..5th..7%..6th..4%
7..1ST..33%..2nd..23%..3rd..16%..4th..12%..5th..8%..6th..5%..7th..3%
8..1ST..30%..2nd..22%..3rd..16%..4th..12%..5th..8%..6th..6%..7th..4%..8th..2%



A warm welcome to Flameflash, and Alesia.... and there are another 6 players who will be added to the ratings as soon as their first rated turn comes up.

Last edited by Gavrushka on 13-04-2002 at 15:16

	12-04-2002 19:27									#2
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The next update is due 26th April 2002... If you don't see it, shout... JPWW, I can rely on you to shout loudest can I not??

	12-04-2002 20:07									#3
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What kind of program do you use ?

	12-04-2002 20:30									#4
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I don't...... I have a database that holds the results, but it is a Calculator that works out the individual scores... I asked someone for help as to automating it, but nothing came of it unfortunately..... It takes about 2 hours to do a weeks results, then a further hour to Format it!

I am not very computer literate.. even though I did a degree in it.... just toooooooo many years ago to be of any value

	12-04-2002 21:06									#5
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From 11 to 2!

Not bad my lad (that's me), writing congratulation to myself

	12-04-2002 22:23									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Damn, I again clicked Post Reply instead of using the quick reply .

In any case, thanks Gav for updating in two weeks (if you will ). I tried to automate this once, but proved to be kinda tough. However, I did do this, later. But only partially. It was like this: enter start scores in Excel, and it gives you the end scores automatically.

However, I didn't get to do the full automation - storing results. Am not sure I know the formulas by heart, still .

	12-04-2002 22:35									#7
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Solver note the world tennis ranking system is no longer in use... I could not work out how to use it!!!!!

Also apologies to Lung... I had made an error in his score, now corrected..... Also Lung no longer gains from his Death Matches because of the score differential.... There is one solution, but makes the scores very volatile and go up quickly... And that is to use a 10% stake as is now, but not to then take 10% off the score as at present but just to add the results to present score... this is how Internet rankings work

	12-04-2002 23:12									#8
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Dang it - that made the gap between me and David the aussie MooseLover bigger.

But that's ok. I'll get him sooner or later anyway

Else I have to do the same as Mobius

Visit Australia and Lung(!) going to drink all his beers.....

	12-04-2002 23:29									#9
	Tired of ads?

I can try to help you for the program ...

	13-04-2002 04:33									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka The next update is due 26th April 2002... If you don't see it, shout... JPWW, I can rely on you to shout loudest can I not??

What???? I thought you were supposed to update the ratings every hour on the hour!!!!

What are we paying you for???

	13-04-2002 06:04									#11
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The problem is this 'every tenth turn' rule. How many times have you been ranked first on turn *4 or *6, only to plummet to fourth when turn *9 rolls around. Too many, I bet! The solution: post rankings every turn and rerun the ratings immediately upon posting! Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket.

	13-04-2002 06:36									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

bah! Lung is scum of the earth......


And I still see many people who dont play? I also cant fuckin seem to get past 11. Bwaaaaah~~~!

I guess its tie for me to go unrated in all my bad games!

	13-04-2002 13:14									#13
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quote: Originally posted by jpww What???? I thought you were supposed to update the ratings every hour on the hour!!!! What are we paying you for???

I am a slave to the people.... I shall set my alarm..

	13-04-2002 13:33									#14
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Faded, now your score.... you either do well in a game, or very badly - I ran through the results for you, and your score raised to 25.5 before dropping back...

IF anyone can write a small program that contains a database of users where U can enter how many people are in the rated turn, enter there names, and auto update the database I would be highly appreciative of it... The Maths is very very simple... Zobo if you could help I would really really appreciate it...

Also it was mentioned earlier about two player PBEMs - I will not rate them, as we all know they run very fast- often 9 turns can run in a day, and someone who takes the lead will keep the lead, and a run of positive results will artificially boost somebody too far up the rankings, in a question of days....

I also think it is time to promote team play - and have a rankings chart for that... Keygen was working on 3 team games last I heard, and I have started two, but has anyone got any idea of how to work the rankings?? Bare in mind that some team games have different numbers of players on each side... I believe that clearly defined objectives should have points awarded for them - Things like poiints for Capturing an enemy city, points for hitting each age first - I don't know, but the subject should be thrown open to debate, do people even want to play in teams???

Dugrik, I know that people attempt to claim the powergraph on turn x9... it can be done by arranging settlers to come out at the right time, spending money on the purchase of city improvements, reducing public works.... I think unlike the guy who used to do the ratings, I am very very much open to constructive, erm constructive suggestions as how to run the rankings better.. The only issue with your suggestion Dugrik is the volume of work... It is too much... it takes me two hours for a weeks results... it would mean 20 hours for a weeks results... so the answer is that is not possible...... HOWEVER if Zobo comes up with a program - it could be done every 5 turns???

	13-04-2002 14:50									#15
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Yes Gav, the ratings have gone pretty far, I know the tennis system is no longer, and I'm unhappy because of that. Personally I found the formulas of Quinns very nice and easy to use, so I prefered that way.

Now, what I need is a detailed explanation of what you use now.

And I think that rating on *9 turns is fine, and needs no change - that's completely fundamental!

	13-04-2002 15:00									#16
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There is a complete explanation of the new system at the top of this thread... As I have mentioned before, the system was applied because I could not work out how to do it the other way, and I am a servant in this - someone tell me what to do and I do it... Propose a system that people prefer and I will use it.. However there are a lot of militants about, and public consensus is usually best before implementation... Damned Militants they are everywhere....

	13-04-2002 15:04									#17
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Brr, forgot to add the simleys when I needed them .

As for Team Games, I have the same general idea - points for achievemets.

So once again, I need details on the new calculation methods and everything. Gav, you should have asked me about those formulas... I used them a lot, and had an understanding of them. Yours might be quicker to count, though, but if anyone makes a program, that won't matter. Hope Zobo does it, for I'm pretty frightened about my skills .

	13-04-2002 15:06									#18
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No, I don't want another system Gav, because I prefer to do as little changes as possible.

However, I AM stupid - I don't understand the explanations up there, so I need one more detailed, with maths, and in easier language - hard English for me to understand. I'm very ashamed, but please . I know it's easy, but gotta have someone explain it to me.

	13-04-2002 15:15									#19
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Everyone has a score, when a rated turn comes in every player has 10% taken from his score and added together, so with 3 players on 21 points each they each have 2.1 points taken off there scores, they now have 18.9 points, the 2.1 for each player is added together
2.1+2.1+2.1=6.3

And then the formula is applied to see who gets what..

3 player game first player gets 54%

6.3*54%=3.402

this is added on to his score (reduced by the 2.1 he staked)

so 18.9+ 3.402 = 22.302

Player 2 gets 31% of the 6.3

6.3*31%= 1.953

so his new score is 18.9+1.953 = 20.853

Player 3 gets 15% of the 6.3

6.3*15% = 0.945

so his new score is 19.845

	13-04-2002 15:21									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

.

Understood now, I think. Is that right that you only need one calc per a player in a game, only calcualting the score ONCE for EACH PLAYER, without those mid-scores? Hope I understood this OK.

Still think the Tennis system was an easy one, though. So we're both fools .

Will try to calc a few scores now, to see if I understood it correct.

	13-04-2002 17:59									#21
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The problem with the other system was obvious, this system promotes games and ranking movements. If Faded thinks he dropped fast with this system the last one would have him at the bottom of the ranks by now

Teams could be based on win/loss only.

This system is easy 10% of your score is put in a pot with the other players. On turns ending in 9 the winners and losers share the pot according to thier rank at that time based on the posted formula.

Racing for 9th turn rankings is always going to happen. I had started a thread once on how to play your game to maximize the ranking system, it's there so manipulate it, if that is your goal. For instance newbies jumping into higher ranked players games and winning can reap huge rewards

	13-04-2002 18:33									#22
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Hehe, Blackice, good points .

	13-04-2002 20:44									#23
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There are lots of programmers in the OT. If you ask nice enough, maybe someone will do it.

I cant program for ****. Even tho I have blitz basic. The best I can do is :Ask the user his name: Hello your is name is?
IfSteve=yes&then Print: You da man
Ifuserdoesnot=Steve;




Of course thats not relly how it goes. But I did do somthing like that.

	13-04-2002 20:46									#24
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Faded, such talent.... I think u just invented a new language!

	13-04-2002 21:11									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Faded, such talent.... I think u just invented a new language!

I did create a program like that! It asked me for my name. Only 'steve' worked. And one steve was tped and presse ente. The program ended. Simple, but it worked! Like I said make an OT thread. There are lots of programmers in there, who are genius and do math for hobby's.

	13-04-2002 21:15									#26
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If I had a good old fashioned Basic Interpreter I could do it simply myself.... But Zobo is gonna have a look at doing it, so that should make my life a lot simpler....

	15-04-2002 17:28									#27
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I have made the carcass for that program, but don't even hope I would send it!

	15-04-2002 19:24									#28
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I will try to do something...

	15-04-2002 19:35									#29
	Put an end to popups!

I will try to do something...

	15-04-2002 20:16									#30
	Got spare money?

Will you try twice ?