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MosesPresley
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quote:
Originally posted by joseph1944
Do you know how many time the Military received a threat. At Mare Island we received hundreds over the years. They did not tell us about evey one, but some we were told to be on the lookout for anyone we did not know asking about the Yard. |
Anonymous threats are a little different. OBL is known to have been involved in the original WTC bombing, the embassy bombing in Africa, and the bombing of the USS Cole. A threat involving him has to be taken a little more seriously than an anonymous crank. The man had a track record of hitting US targets. This isn't 20/20 hindsight. The Bush administration has admitted they thought it would be a "traditional" hi-jacking. I find it funny and revolting that because it would be a traditional hi-jacking, it was OK to do nothing. I mean, what's up with that kind of thinking. It just goes to show you, that they don't give a tinker's damn about the regular people.
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I was stationed in Mare Island in '81 for my C school, cryptography. When were you there?
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MosesPresley
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It's not hindsight or Monday morning quarterbacking. It's called using your intelligence assets judiciously and wisely.
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The Mad Monk
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of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:18
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Check out this article:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/18/in...ines/index.html
quote:
U.S. warned in 1995 of plot to hijack planes, attack buildings
By Maria Ressa
CNN Correspondent
MANILA, Philippines (CNN) -- The FBI was warned six years ago of a terrorist plot to hijack commercial planes and slam them into the Pentagon, the CIA headquarters and other buildings, Philippine investigators told CNN.
Philippine authorities learned of the plot after a small fire in a Manila apartment, which turned out to be the hideout of Ramzi Yousef, who was later convicted for his role in the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. Yousef escaped at the time, but agents caught his right-hand man, Abdul Hakim Murad, who told them a chilling tale.
"Murad narrated to us about a plan by the Ramzi cell in the continental U.S. to hijack a commercial plane and ram it into the CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, and also the Pentagon," said Rodolfo Mendoza, a Philippine intelligence investigator.
Philippine investigators also found evidence targeting commercial towers in San Francisco, Chicago and New York City.
They said they passed that information on to the FBI in 1995, but it's not clear what was done with it.
One week ago, two hijacked commercial jets slammed into the World Trade Center, collapsing the towers. Another jet hit the Pentagon and a fourth crashed in rural Pennsylvania. Authorities believe that fourth jet may have been headed for the Capitol or the White House. Thousands were killed in the attacks.
On Monday, FBI Director Robert Mueller insisted the agency had "no warning signs" of last week's attacks.
Yousef and Murad both have ties to Osama bin Laden, the man President Bush has labeled the "prime suspect" in Tuesday's attacks.
Authorities also found on a computer in the Manila apartment details of a separate plot to bomb 11 U.S. airliners on overseas flights.
Yousef once listed his occupation as "international terrorist" on an ID card, and he has long been considered a disciple of bin Laden.
Murad was a pilot who admitted he had been trained in Afghanistan as well as the United States. Bin Laden, a Saudi native, lives in Afghanistan.
"(Murad) was principally recruited by Yousef's group and bin Laden's group to undertake a suicide mission," said Avelino Razon, superintendent for the Philippine National Police.
Yousef was eventually caught in Pakistan and brought to New York for trial. He was sentenced to life in prison. Murad is also serving a life sentence.
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Not only have these threats been made before, but made several different times; what sort of attention should have been paid to these?
Thanks to Drudge for the link.
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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
I like the way people are saying "memos should have been sent to the President", and "The President should have sent those memos to the right people", as if he were some kind of mail boy...
We have millions of people in government; some of those people collect data, others analyse it, and still others determine the importance of the data and who it should be sent to. This is true for everything from milspysat images to the latest census data to that conversation with an informant in Belfast. There is no way one man can keep track of it all, which is why the others are there.
The president was never intended to be a micromanagement-type position. The last time someone tried was Carter.
Need I say more? |
hi ,
what about , NRO , DIA , NSA , CIA , army , navy and airforce intel , .........they must have seen something , if they did put the pieces together is an other Q , but still the flags should have gone up , ............someone , somewhere in the Us government and in other countries must have known what whas about to happen , .............
one man can keep track of not all , but look at the federation of american science , the warned about an attack as early as 12/2000 , ...........this was one man who sad 40 hours a week behind a comp , and he warned them , ....they did put him in the hospital , .....because they (the government) thought that he was a bit a "fruitcake" , ..............
have a nice day
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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by SpencerH
So we have intel that suggests that the scum are planning a hijacking. Great. Without a when and where what are we supposed to do, shut down the airports? Its like saying there's gonna be a train wreck that will kill many people. Its too vague to take action against. |
hi ,
you can use a security system like in Israel , they dont have problems with hijacking , ......the only problem is that it shall cost money and the regular john in the street shall have to wait a bit longer before going aboard , ......but the biggest problem to start with is to do something in the support , if people say , its 5 o clock , i go home , and the general rings at 1701 , the most people say ; na , we aint payed for that , ..........
what we should do is unite , invest in new equipment , implement some rules , and most important , work as a team , not like a group of chicken's , that run in every direction , ......
have a nice day
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SpencerH
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Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:18
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quote:
Originally posted by panag
hi ,
you can use a security system like in Israel , they dont have problems with hijacking , ......the only problem is that it shall cost money and the regular john in the street shall have to wait a bit longer before going aboard , ......but the biggest problem to start with is to do something in the support , if people say , its 5 o clock , i go home , and the general rings at 1701 , the most people say ; na , we aint payed for that , ..........
what we should do is unite , invest in new equipment , implement some rules , and most important , work as a team , not like a group of chicken's , that run in every direction , ......
have a nice day |
The same argument could be used for Israel. There may not be hijackings with EL AL but obviously there is no such thing as perfect security.
I dont believe that the security problem here has been one of money or time. Its a question of perception, most americans didnt truly accept that any threat existed. In that context, high tech and low tech security costs are misplaced. Now that they do recognize the threat (at least for a while) attitudes toward "real" security (not the "lip service" crap we have now) will hopefully change.
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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by SpencerH
The same argument could be used for Israel. There may not be hijackings with EL AL but obviously there is no such thing as perfect security.
I dont believe that the security problem here has been one of money or time. Its a question of perception, most americans didnt truly accept that any threat existed. In that context, high tech and low tech security costs are misplaced. Now that they do recognize the threat (at least for a while) attitudes toward "real" security (not the "lip service" crap we have now) will hopefully change. |
hi ,
well if you dont believe it , come to brussels , one of the two "capitol's" of the EU , pffffffffffffffffffffff , and 95 % of the world is like that , it only takes simple things ; example , more comp's , better ones , the firewall's are almost never upgraded , the same for the virus / trojan solutions , ........gps/gprs/gsm , pffffff , outdated , most people working in the office's buy the newest stuff out of there own pocket , .... ,...............
and then intel , well , we have a saying , to classify horizontally or vertically , .................... , .....get the pic , .............
there should be a change on the leadership , most people when they are on their post's only work to stay on their post , they are not working for what they are hired , ............
a control system , better then the senate sub comité , ........
who is checking the auditors , ...........
more audits , ...........
have a nice day
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MosesPresley
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http://www.thenation.com/capitalgam...ml?bid=3&pid=60
The bin Laden Warning: Why Did Bush Keep It a Secret?
05/16/2002 @ 12:52am
By the way, we, uh, forgot to mention, that in August of 2001, while the President was taking a long vacation at his ranch in Crawford, the CIA told him that, uh, Osama bin Laden might be planning to hijack an airliner as part of some, who-knows-what terrorist action against the United States.
That is, in essence, how the Bush White House confirmed the CBS News report that broke this story Wednesday night. The White House was quick to say the CIA intelligence did not refer to anything as diabolical as a quadruple-hijacking that transformed airliners into weapons of mass destruction. That's probably true. But this latest news follows recent reports that an FBI agent in Phoenix in July 2001 had written a classified memo noting a "strong connection" between a group of Middle Eastern aviation students he was investigating and bin Laden's al Qaeda, and that one of the FBI agents trying to figure out the intentions of Zacarias Moussaoui, who was arrested at a flight school in August 2001, had speculated he might be planning to fly an airliner into the World Trade Center.
Before conspiracy theorists run away with this latest revelation, it is important to note its true significance.
First, the news raises an obvious question, is there anything else the White House is not telling us? Bush and his lieutenants kept word of the CIA briefing secret for eight months. Why did they not disclose this earlier? In January and February, The Washington Post published an eight-part series by Bob Woodward and Dan Balz on how the President and his aides responded to the September 11 attacks. The articles--a mostly positive account--were largely drawn from interviews with Bush and senior officials. Funny, none of them mentioned that a month before the attacks, the CIA had told the President, via the daily briefing it prepares for him, there was reason to worry about a bin Laden action. It is a good bet that at one point on that awful day the President or the other aides who generally have access to the CIA's daily briefing--Vice President **** Cheney, CIA director George Tenet, national security adviser Condoleeza Rice, and chief of staff Andrew Card--recalled that warning.
The Post series did report, "Through much of the summer, Tenet had grown increasingly troubled by the prospect of a major terrorist attack against the United States. There was too much chatter in the intelligence system and repeated reports of threats were costing him sleep....Everywhere he went, the message was the same: Something big is coming. But for all his fears, intelligence officials could never pinpoint when or where an attack might hit." But in this administration-provided account, there was no sign the CIA had informed Bush it was on the lookout for a bin Laden hijacking. Presumably, none of Woodward and Balz's insider-sources felt that was worth sharing.
Once again, the Bush crowd has demonstrated its fondness for secrecy. And for spinning. When Bush spokesman Ari Fleischer, facing a combative press corps, was asked why the adminstration had not revealed that Bush received this warning, he reminded the reporters the real issue was that "the fault lies with Osama bin Laden and the terrorists." Later in the day, Rice, up against the White House reporters, repeatedly depicted the CIA briefing as an unexceptional act during which Bush was merely told that bin Laden could be interested in hijacking. It's common sense that a terrorist might be considering a hijacking, she added. But CIA daily briefings are supposed to include noteworthy material for the President, not obvious, generalized information. Let's hope the CIA is not wasting the President's time by reminding him terrorists sometimes hijack airplanes.
Certainly, there was an understandable reason for the White House to be mum until now. If the public had learned of the briefing, questions would be asked. Which brings us to the other significance of this disclosure: it provides Congress an additional--and well-defined--avenue for its investigation of the national security community's performance prior to September 11.
Belatedly, Congress in February moved to have the intelligence committees of the House and Senate conduct a joint investigation into what went wrong before the attacks. (The decision came after the Bush White House earlier asked Congress not to pursue this topic quickly.) In doing so, Congress eschewed the suggestion made by Senators John McCain and Joe Lieberman that a blue-ribbon panel outside Congress conduct the investigation. Instead, the mission was handed to committees that have traditionally maintained cozy relations with the intelligence services. And the probe has gotten off to a slow and bumpy start. The first lead investigator, Britt Snider, quit the post, after getting into an internal tussle for not alerting the committees he had hired someone under investigation for failing a CIA lie-detector exam. (Snider, a former CIA inspector general, may not have been the right fellow for the job, since he is a longtime friend and colleague of Tenet, and Senator Richard Shelby, the ranking Republican on the Senate intelligence committee, has had Tenet in the crosshairs since September 11.) Then news leaked that the Justice Department and the CIA were not fully cooperating with the investigation.
Assuming the inquiry gets on track, the committee investigators should thoroughly examine that August intelligence briefing. They ought to be able to trace it backward and determine what went into this report. What was the sourcing? How did the CIA gather this information? How did it follow up? Did it make a serious effort to learn more about this hijacking plot? If so, what was done? If not, why not? This is an important trail for the investigators to follow, inch by inch. Perhaps the CIA did everything it could and, still, was unable to unearth a clear tip-off. But maybe opportunities were missed. The public deserves to know.
Second-guessing is easy, but it is tragic that the Phoenix FBI report (suspects in a terrorist investigation linked to al Qaeda are attending flight school), the mysterious Moussaoui case (a suspicious fellow, enrolled in a flight school, is up to something, maybe crashing an airliner into the World Trade Towers), and the CIA warning (bin Laden is planning a terrorist action) were never placed side-by-side on the same desk. Had they been, that might not have spelled out what was coming. But it could have made other information seem more relevant or helped the CIA and FBI locate additional pieces of this secret puzzle. The inability of the intelligence community to coordinate its information streams--not even within the FBI was the Phoenix report passed to the office investigating Moussaoui--is troubling. Is there a point to spending $30 billion-plus dollars a year for a sweeping intelligence system--and Congress is in the process of approving a multibillion dollar boost--if that system cannot discern and efficiently handle the nuggets it does manage to obtain?
Thanks to "The Nation" for this link.
http://www.ucomics.com/tedrall/view...tr&uc_daction=X
 Attachment: tr020516.jpg
This has been downloaded 35 time(s).
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quote:
Originally posted by MosesPresley
I was stationed in Mare Island in '81 for my C school, cryptography. When were you there? |
The first time I was US Navy on a Ship (USS Navarro APA-215) off loading Ammo in June of 1964 prior to our overhaul at pier 36 in SF. Did not know that in Aug of 65 I would start to work there. July 31, 64 when to Napa for the first time to see a girl that I knew from Modesto and met my future wife that same day. When I was discharge she said go to Mare Island and get a Job, so I did and 30 years later I retired because of closure. In July 81 I transfer from Shop 11 Test to Code 180 Training.
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quote:
Originally posted by GP
Actually I remember hearing some stuff, shortly after the attacks, that said that there had been some intel of threat assesment. None of it specific enough to be acted on. As was this stuff.
Do you really think the administration should release CIA memos? |
A big No.
Well maybe to me and a few other.
During the Cuba Missile deal I was in Security division at NTC in San Diego. They took all of us to a gun range to teach us to shoot. I cannot remember if they said it was because of Cuba or that we may have to arm you in case something is going on while standing your watch. They just don't talk to everone most of the time. In the US Gov. it is "need to know" and if they belived you do not need to know they will not tell you. As I understand it most Sub crews do not know were they are day to day in the world.
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18-05-2002 09:07
It was a simple matter of survelliance. It would have been easy to track these suspicious people and prevent them from any sort of terrorist activity. 
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