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Sirotnikov
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<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
A war crime doesn't have to be deliberate or intentially designed to kill civilians. Bringing people's houses down on top of them will almost as surely kill them as being bombed or shot. |
Those houses were boobie trapped and covered terrorists and bomb production facilities.
Some of the houses collapsed as a result of booby traps - some 5 houses collapsed killing 13 Israelis during the mission.
quote:
The Israelis knew this action was likely to result in massive civilian casualties, and decided to do it anyways, instead of perhaps, oh, I don't know . . . how about not invading the camp?  |
Gee, that's a great option 
Let's also cancel the police force, since capturing criminals may accidentally hurt innocent people caught in the chase.
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Home detruction is a particularly Israeli form of war crime. |
Most of the home destructuction took place after the battle ended, to make sure that no booby traps or bomb factories survive.
It also took palce in just a part of the camp, while the rest of it is still standing.
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They've been doing it since the very begining, never giving people adequate time to get their stuff out of the houses, often just barely enough to to avoid being crushed. |
Yes, I'd love to see them save explosive belts and weapons
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Sometimes they don't even bother, as in Kibbyah, where they say they told the hiding villagers that the homes would be dynamited, bbut then shot at anyone who tried to escape.  |
That's why the only ones dead are those who hid from IDF?
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Here's an idea. Arm the Palestinians to parity with the Israelis. Then cut both sides off completely, and let them slaughter each other until they decide that their war is stupid. |
Yeah, great idea.
Why not give the palestinians tanks, so they could continue targetting Israeli civilians with better aim
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WFHermans
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You know, it's certainly advantageous to be smart and to be well
organized in this hard and unforgiving world in which we live. On the
average, a group that is smart and well organized is more likely to
survive and prosper than one that isn't. But even a smart, well
organized group can make serious mistakes: life-threatening mistakes.
Even a smart, well-organized group that thinks it has all the bases
covered sometimes gets caught by surprise, simply because history is
full of surprises. As the great Robert Burns said: "The best laid
schemes o' mice and men gang aft a-gley." And when a smart,
well-organized group has certain inherent pathological tendencies that
it is unable to control, then no one should be surprised when the group
comes to grief despite all of its cleverness and despite its apparent
stranglehold on the course of events.
The Jews certainly are smart and well organized. But they also certainly
do have certain inherent pathological tendencies that they seem utterly
unable to keep under control. At controlling us they're pretty good. At
controlling their own lethal excesses they're not very good at all. And
now, just as some of them are bragging to each other that they never
have had it better -- just as some of them are dancing a hora and
gloating that with their control over the George Bush government they
really have a stranglehold on the world -- other Jews have noticed some
very ominous writing on the wall and are warning the Jews who are
bragging and gloating that the long-range prospect for the Jews may not
be as rosy as they think it is.
Jews are constantly taking polls, constantly sampling public opinion, so
that they can estimate how much they can get away with at any given
time. When they force some new policy on our government, they take polls
to see how the public is reacting to the policy. If some policy is very
unpopular, they want to know whether or not the public is blaming them
for the policy. They always are ready to fine tune the propaganda being
fed to the public through their mass media in order to keep the Gentiles
from becoming too restless. Or if the Gentiles already are restless,
then the purpose of their media propaganda is to divert blame from
themselves onto someone else.
I know that what I am saying about the Jews continually monitoring
public opinion and then adjusting their propaganda line in order to move
public opinion in one direction or another sounds very conspiratorial
and farfetched to most Americans. Americans have been taught that they
are free agents, that they are able to make up their own minds about
things, that no one controls their thinking or manipulates their
opinions. That, however, is merely a popular illusion. As far back as
1928 the Jew Edward Bernays wrote in his book Propaganda, and I quote:
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and
opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society.
Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an
invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. . .
. The important thing is that [propaganda] is universal and continuous;
and in its sum total it is regimenting the public mind every bit as much
as an army regiments the bodies of its soldiers." -- end of quote-
The Gentile world paid little attention to Bernays' book in the
pre-World War II period, but his fellow Jews, who had assimilated the
book's message generations before Bernays had even written it, were busy
elbowing their way into positions of control in this "unseen mechanism
of society."
The essential points here are that the Jews do monitor Gentile public
opinion around the world on a continuous basis, they do control the
"unseen mechanism of society" which consists of most if not all of the
mass media of news and entertainment, and they do try to adjust their
propaganda line in a way to keep the Gentiles from becoming restless and
to protect themselves from blame and reprisals. The ominous writing on
the wall I mentioned a moment ago that some Jews are warning the other
Jews about is to the effect that despite their manipulation of public
opinion, it is shifting strongly against them: primarily in Europe, but
also, to a lesser degree, in America.
Now, the Jews are well known for their hypersensitivity to any sort of
criticism. You look at one of them sideways, and he begins screaming
that it's another "Holocaust." But this time there may be something to
their chattering that the rest of the world doesn't love them as much as
they think we should. Their poll-takers are claiming now that
anti-Jewish feeling is higher than it has been since the 1930s -- and
that's something.
In the 1930s there was a big reaction in Europe -- and to a lesser
degree in America -- to what the Jews were doing as communist commissars
in the Soviet Union, butchering millions of Russians and Ukrainians.
There were still a few big newspapers in America in the hands of people
who weren't afraid to criticize Jews. America's foremost industrialist,
Henry Ford, published a newspaper, the Dearborn Independent, which
exposed the Jews in communism, the Jews in pornography, the Jews in
White slavery, and the Jews in every other filthy, subversive, or
destructive activity. Many Christian preachers were not afraid to speak
out against the Jews. Jews were only tolerated in polite society, but
they generally weren't accepted. To a far greater extent than today, in
the 1930s the Jews were recognized for what they are.
And so I must suspect that their claim that hatred of Jews today is as
high as it was in the 1930s is exaggerated. Still, appearances can be
deceptive. In the 1930s if a prominent person -- a person with an
audience, with influence -- didn't like what the Jews were doing, he
wasn't afraid to speak out. He wasn't afraid to write a book, and there
were publishers who would print it. Today, with the media and the
politicians totally in the hands of the Jews, it's harder for the
average citizen to hear an honest opinion on anything. And it's harder
for me to know what the real results of an opinion poll about the Jews,
a poll in which a person is able to give his answers privately, would
show. I can only assume that the Jews have some basis for their claim
that they are more unpopular than at any time since the 1930s.
In trying to explain to themselves why this feeling against them has
arisen they see a confluence of causal events. Part of the reason they
see is the recognition by many Americans that despite what George Bush
and the Jewish media say, September 11 was, in fact, a direct response
to the U.S. government's support of Israeli aggression. Which is to say,
many Americans understand that more than 3,000 of their fellow Americans
lost their lives on September 11 because their government was looking
after Israel's interests instead of America's interests.
The Jewish media, of course, use their typical deceit in deflecting
blame from themselves in this regard, by setting up a straw man and then
knocking it down. With disgust and incredulity in their voices they
announce that anti-Semites are blaming Jews for the September 11
attacks, implying that what anti-Semites are saying is that Jews
themselves staged the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon
and made it look like Muslims had done it in order to generate American
hostility against Muslims. And then they shake their heads in pretended
disbelief that anyone could be so stupid as to believe such an obviously
incorrect explanation of September 11, all for the sake of blaming the
poor, innocent Jews. And while they are knocking down this straw man,
they are grinning up their sleeves. But the act is quite good enough to
fool millions of Sally Soccermoms and Joe Sixpacks and to close their
minds to any explanation except George Bush's "they did it because they
hate our freedom" baloney.
But the fact remains that everyone except the Sally Soccermoms and Joe
Sixpacks understands that the September 11 attack was a direct response
by desperate people to the U.S. government's support of Israel's
aggression in the Middle East, and those Americans who are capable of
understanding also are capable of hating those who degrade and dishonor
their country and cause the deaths of their fellow Americans.
Another part of the reason for the poll results the Jews are getting is,
they believe, a delayed backlash against Jewish efforts during the last
three or four years to extort "Holocaust" reparations payments from
everyone in sight. I mean, can you believe that there are Gentiles in
Switzerland and France and Germany and Poland and Sweden and other
countries in Europe who dare to resent the Jews coming around with their
hands out and demanding reparations from the people who saved their
hides during the war? I can believe it.
Part of the reason for the Jews' unpopularity is the Bush government's
war against Afghanistan and its threat of war against Iraq and other
countries, along with a general recognition -- at least, outside the
United States -- that the U.S. government does whatever Israel tells it
to do. Many people in Europe do not appreciate the destabilization of
their world -- they do not appreciate the threat of another world war
hanging over their heads -- just because the world's number-one
superpower lets itself be used for dangerous errands by that "shitty
little country" Israel, as France's ambassador to the United Kingdom,
Daniel Bernard, put it recently.
And finally there is the growing revulsion around the world at Israel's
behavior in Palestine. Television viewers in the United States don't
hear much except that the poor, innocent Israelis are trying to defend
themselves from Palestinian suicide bombers, who are regularly referred
to by everyone in the Bush government and by every media spokesman as
"terrorists." But in Europe, where the news media are in not quite so
tight a stranglehold as in the United States, the word is getting out
about what the Jews are doing to the Palestinians. I'll read to you
excerpts from a few British news reports about what the Jews did in the
Palestinian refugee camp in Jenin. For more than a week after committing
a massacre of Palestinian men, women, and children in Jenin, the Jews
wouldn't permit ambulances, relief supplies, or journalists in, while
they tried to hide the evidence of what they had done. Earlier this week
a few British journalists managed to evade Israeli tanks and snipers
around the camp and get in. All the excerpts I'll read now came from
British newspapers published on April 16.
This first report is from The Times of London and was filed by reporter
Janine Giovanni. I quote: ". . . we had to run through olive groves,
dodging from tree to tree because of an Israeli sniper. I have seen
demolished houses before. I have seen wells stuffed with bodies. I have
seen civilians terrorised and living under siege. But what remains of
Jenin camp is a wasteland of death that once housed 13,000 people."
Then Miss Giovanni describes the destruction and the horror, and she
quotes a 30-year-old Palestinian who lived through the massacre: "I saw
some children who were wounded take four days to die, bleeding to death
because there was no one here to tend them."
Reporter David Blair wrote for the Telegraph, and I quote: "All the
paraphernalia of normal life littered the ground: toilet paper, shoe
boxes, sanitary towels, buckets, crockery, chairs, and clothes. Hanging
over everything was the sickly smell of rotting corpses, an unknown
number of which lay under the rubble. . . . Dazed people gathered around
what remained of their homes. Riad Hussain, 30, saw a house receive a
direct hit from a rocket fired by an Apache attack helicopter. The woman
and baby inside were killed. Sixteen-year-old Fahdi Jamir, who lives on
the edge of the worst devastation, said he saw seven arms and legs among
the rubble. Kamal Anis said he saw an Israeli bulldozer scooping up 30
bodies and dumping them beside a ruined house. It knocked down the
building, covering the corpses with rubble. It then drove over the pile,
leveling it into a crude mass grave. Standing at the point where Mr.
Anis said this had occurred, the stench of death was overpowering."
Reporter Phil Reeves wrote for London's The Independent, and I quote: "A
monstrous war crime that Israel has tried to cover up for a fortnight
has finally been exposed. Its troops have caused devastation in the
centre of the Jenin refugee camp, reached yesterday by The Independent,
where thousands of people are still living amid the ruins. . . . The
sweet and ghastly smell of rotting human corpses is everywhere, evidence
that it is a human tomb. The people who spent days hiding in basements
crowded into single rooms as the rockets pounded in say there are
hundreds of corpses entombed beneath the dust, under a field of debris,
criss-crossed with tank and bulldozer treadmarks. . . . A quiet,
sad-looking young man . . . led us across the wasteland, littered now
with the detritus of what were once households, foam rubber, torn
clothes, shoes, tin cans, children's toys. He suddenly stopped. This was
a mass grave, he said, pointing. . . . We could not see the bodies, but
we could smell them. . . . Until two weeks ago there were several
hundred tightly packed homes in this neighbourhood . . . . They no
longer exist. Around the central ruins there are many hundreds of
half-wrecked homes. Much of the camp -- once home to 15,000 Palestinian
refugees from the 1948 war -- is falling down. Every wall is speckled
and torn with bullet holes and shrapnel, testimony of the awesome,
random firepower of Cobra and Apache helicopters that hovered over the
camp. Building after building has been torn apart, their contents . . .
spewed out into the road. Every other building bears the giant, charred
impact mark of a helicopter missile. Last night there were still many
families and weeping children living amid the ruins, cut off from
humanitarian aid. Ominously, we found no wounded . . . . Israel was
still trying to, conceal these scenes yesterday. It had refused entry to
Red Cross ambulances for nearly a week, in violation of the Geneva
Convention. Yesterday it continued to try to keep us out. . . . Hidden,
whispering people directed us through narrow alleys they thought were
clear. When there were soldiers about, a finger would raise in warning,
or a hand waved us back. We were welcomed by people desperate to tell
what had happened. They spoke of executions and bulldozers wrecking
homes with people inside. . . . Rajib Ahmed, from the Palestinian Energy
Authority, came to try to repair the power lines. He was trembling with
fury and shock. 'This is mass murder. . . . " All had the same message:
tell the world." -- end of quote --
Yes, tell the world. That's easier to do when the Jews don't control
every medium of mass communication, as they do in America. I've been
sampling the news on CNN and Fox TV all week. All I learned about the
Jewish assault on Jenin was that 13 Israeli soldiers were killed when a
boobytrapped building collapsed on them. And of course, I heard over and
over again about every suicide bombing, now officially known as
"homicide bombing." But I have still to see any information about the
mass murder of Palestinian civilians in Jenin or any of the other
refugee camps invaded by the Jews during the past few weeks.
One other piece of information that was in the European media but not in
the news over here was the way in which the Jews were targeting their
victims. I'll quote now from a story in the Guardian four days ago:
"'The soldiers had a map with them of the houses they wanted bulldozed
and outlined them with a blue marker,' said Aisha Salah, whose house
overlooks the field of destruction. "you could see the houses. You could
see the trees. It was a very detailed map. I could even find my own
home.' Ms. Salah's home was occupied by Israeli soldiers who entered her
living room by punching a hole through the neighbour's wall." Rumors
abound that the homes marked for destruction were the homes of
professionals: of doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers. The men who
were rounded up and executed or marched away by the Israelis were not
just Palestinian fighters: they were intellectuals, writers, political
activists: anyone who might provide leadership to the Palestinians.
That sounds an awful lot like what the Jews did in the Baltic countries
and in Poland in the early days of the Second World War. In Poland, for
example, they rounded up 25,000 of Poland's leading citizens -- army
officers, professors, writers -- and murdered them. When the Germans
found some of the mass graves of these murdered Poles in Russia and
called in the Red Cross and representatives from neutral countries to
see what the communists had done, the newspapers over here ignored the
evidence and blamed the murders on the Germans. Years after the war
these mass murders of the Polish elite still were being blamed on the
Germans by the media here.
Anyway, in Europe the news about what the Jews are doing in Palestine is
leaking out, and Europeans aren't buying the George Bush and Ariel
Sharon explanation that the Jews are just defending themselves by going
after terrorists in the refugee camps. The Jews are complaining that the
news from Palestine, along with the other things I mentioned, is leading
many Europeans not to like them. One of the most worrisome aspects about
the current rise in anti-Jewish feeling, according to the Jewish poll
takers, is that it isn't just anti-Israeli or anti-Zionist feeling. It
is a real hatred of Jews as Jews, not just as Israelis or Zionists. They
cite mobs attacking Jews in the streets of Ukrainian and Russian cities
and shouting. "Kill the Jews!" They refer to attacks on synagogues in
France and Germany. They complain that all of the old anti-Semitic
conspiracy theories about Jews wanting to dominate the world are being
resurrected.
Now, what's really happening is this: The Israelis are irritated by
Palestinian suicide bombers. They decided to punish the Palestinians by
simply slaughtering a bunch of them and destroying the homes of a few
thousand Palestinian families. It would be like the government over here
becoming irritated by the high Black crime rate and deciding to teach
Blacks to behave themselves by wiping out a few Black neighborhoods and
shooting a few thousand Blacks at random. The media, of course, would
immediately go ballistic and begin shrieking, "Genocide!" But when the
Jews do something equivalent, the media in this country can be counted
on to not say much about it and to keep the lemmings preoccupied with
ball games or the pedophile scandal in the Catholic Church. And the Jews
figured that they would simply ride out the criticism in Europe, as they
always have in the past, counting on their bought politicians to cover
for them.
As they have done so often in the past, however, the Jews overreached
themselves. Their arrogance led them to miscalculate. They are whining
now that the world hates them just for trying to defend themselves. And
of course, a growing number of thinking people do hate them -- at least,
in those places where thinking people are well informed. One of our
responsibilities here in America is to compensate as much as we can for
the lack of independent media. Our responsibility is to inform thinking
people here at least to the extent they are informed in Europe and then
let their natural decency and sense of responsibility do the rest.
Perhaps we can help make this the beginning of the end for the Jews.
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Ecowiz Returns
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Portugal
Aug 2001
time: 05:18
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Until hard facts are to be presented, I believe the only correct position on this issue is that of Ming: there are no inocents in this war.
However, I have to compliment Imran for allowing a less one sided view of the ME problem, by presenting to discussion some of the aleged errors and crimes of the Israelli side.
Please note that, unless firm proof is presented, they are aleged facts; however, they have the same value of the news presented by Siro, for instance, for those too are aledged facts.
Now, talking about facts and proof:
- In order to collect facts about the events in Jenin, one requires an inquiry;
- Due to the fact that there is the possibility of a crime being done by the Israelli army it seems clear that such an enquiry cannot be done by Israelli authorities;
- Being so, I find disturbing that, even against their biggest allies' opinion, the Israelli Government oposes that an international enquiry, already proposed by the UN, takes place;
- I find even more disturbing given the fact that Mr. Sharon is regarded by many to have been, at least partially, responsible for past massacres. The fact that he was only judged by an Israelli Court, again given the expected bias of it does not present, to many (myself included) enough assurance that he did not have any responsability.
- As such, I recall a saying: "To the wife of Ceasar it is not only required to be serious but also to appear serious". A matter of the Israelli Government's international credibility is at stake here.
- In my opinion, the Isrealli Government should be the first one to sponsor an impartial international inquiry, one whose results it can perfectly refute, if there is proof of it to be biased.
- I find all other aleged facts, such as that most Palestinian were civilians or Hamas, that the Palestinians bombed their own homes, that the Israelli troops did everithing to prevent unnecessary killings at the cost of their own lifes... (however is my own opinion on the likelihood of them), as unprooven, and therefore irrelevant, until the inquiry is done.
- The only proven fact is the the Israelli Government does not want the inquiry to be done, and that one only harms its own credibility.
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Saint Marcus
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Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:18
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quote:
It can be proven what Slobo done. |
It still hasn't been proven, that's what the trial is for. The same should be done to Sharon.
quote:
Israel yesterday invited a UN iquiry. |
No, Peres invited a UN inquiry. I doubt Sharon shares his enthusiasm.
quote:
So now you reveal your motiefs |
What motives? Sharon is a murdering bastard, it's as simple as that. And it's also quite obvious he doesn't want peace. The worst part is, that's it's not only him. Sharon is extremely popular in the polls, which show that the Israelis agree with the oppression of the Palestinians.
After what happened WW2, you'd expect the Israelis to be more peaceloving. Instead, they are changing from being the opressed, to being the oppressors. Sadly, we are to blame. Who should never have given Israel to the Jewish community in the first place.
But what done is done, and a way has to be found for the two people to live in peace. With Sharon in charge, that is unlikely to happen.
And yeah, it has taken sometime, but after all the **** Israel has pulled I'm really starting to loathe that governement. I merely dislike the American governement, but I truly loathe that of the Israelis. I can't wait to see Sharon and co on trial in The Hague or Brussels.
That said, I hope Arafat will be facing trial as well. He's as bad as Sharon is for sure, though far less important. Without Arafat, the terrorist attacks carried out by palestinians would still continue. Without Sharon (and with a more peaceloving leader in charge) the state terrorism carried out by the IDF can stop. So therefor, getting rid off Sharon is far more important than getting rid of Arafat (who certainly is "irrelevant", the only thing I and Sharon agree on).
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Sirotnikov
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<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by WFHermans You know, it's certainly advantageous to be smart and to be well organized in this hard and unforgiving world in which we live. On the average, a group that is smart and well organized is more likely to survive and prosper than one that isn't. But even a smart, well organized group can make serious mistakes: life-threatening mistakes. Even a smart, well-organized group that thinks it has all the bases covered sometimes gets caught by surprise, simply because history is full of surprises. As the great Robert Burns said: "The best laid schemes o' mice and men gang aft a-gley." And when a smart, well-organized group has certain inherent pathological tendencies that it is unable to control, then no one should be surprised when the group comes to grief despite all of its cleverness and despite its apparent stranglehold on the course of events.
The Jews certainly are smart and well organized. But they also certainly do have certain inherent pathological tendencies that they seem utterly unable to keep under control. At controlling us they're pretty good. At controlling their own lethal excesses they're not very good at all. And now, just as some of them are bragging to each other that they never have had it better -- just as some of them are dancing a hora and gloating that with their control over the George Bush government they really have a stranglehold on the world -- other Jews have noticed some very ominous writing on the wall and are warning the Jews who are bragging and gloating that the long-range prospect for the Jews may not be as rosy as they think it is.
Jews are constantly taking polls, constantly sampling public opinion, so that they can estimate how much they can get away with at any given time. When they force some new policy on our government, they take polls to see how the public is reacting to the policy. If some policy is very unpopular, they want to know whether or not the public is blaming them for the policy. They always are ready to fine tune the propaganda being fed to the public through their mass media in order to keep the Gentiles from becoming too restless. Or if the Gentiles already are restless, then the purpose of their media propaganda is to divert blame from themselves onto someone else.
I know that what I am saying about the Jews continually monitoring public opinion and then adjusting their propaganda line in order to move public opinion in one direction or another sounds very conspiratorial and farfetched to most Americans. Americans have been taught that they are free agents, that they are able to make up their own minds about things, that no one controls their thinking or manipulates their opinions. That, however, is merely a popular illusion. As far back as 1928 the Jew Edward Bernays wrote in his book Propaganda, and I quote: "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. . .. The important thing is that [propaganda] is universal and continuous; and in its sum total it is regimenting the public mind every bit as much as an army regiments the bodies of its soldiers." -- end of quote-
The Gentile world paid little attention to Bernays' book in the pre-World War II period, but his fellow Jews, who had assimilated the book's message generations before Bernays had even written it, were busy elbowing their way into positions of control in this "unseen mechanism of society."
The essential points here are that the Jews do monitor Gentile public opinion around the world on a continuous basis, they do control the "unseen mechanism of society" which consists of most if not all of the mass media of news and entertainment, and they do try to adjust their propaganda line in a way to keep the Gentiles from becoming restless and to protect themselves from blame and reprisals. The ominous writing on the wall I mentioned a moment ago that some Jews are warning the other Jews about is to the effect that despite their manipulation of public opinion, it is shifting strongly against them: primarily in Europe, but also, to a lesser degree, in America.
Now, the Jews are well known for their hypersensitivity to any sort of criticism. You look at one of them sideways, and he begins screaming that it's another "Holocaust." But this time there may be something to their chattering that the rest of the world doesn't love them as much as they think we should. Their poll-takers are claiming now that anti-Jewish feeling is higher than it has been since the 1930s -- and that's something.
In the 1930s there was a big reaction in Europe -- and to a lesser degree in America -- to what the Jews were doing as communist commissars in the Soviet Union, butchering millions of Russians and Ukrainians. There were still a few big newspapers in America in the hands of people who weren't afraid to criticize Jews. America's foremost industrialist, Henry Ford, published a newspaper, the Dearborn Independent, which exposed the Jews in communism, the Jews in pornography, the Jews in White slavery, and the Jews in every other filthy, subversive, or destructive activity. Many Christian preachers were not afraid to speak out against the Jews. Jews were only tolerated in polite society, but they generally weren't accepted. To a far greater extent than today, in the 1930s the Jews were recognized for what they are.
And so I must suspect that their claim that hatred of Jews today is as high as it was in the 1930s is exaggerated. Still, appearances can be deceptive. In the 1930s if a prominent person -- a person with an audience, with influence -- didn't like what the Jews were doing, he wasn't afraid to speak out. He wasn't afraid to write a book, and there were publishers who would print it. Today, with the media and the politicians totally in the hands of the Jews, it's harder for the average citizen to hear an honest opinion on anything. And it's harder for me to know what the real results of an opinion poll about the Jews, a poll in which a person is able to give his answers privately, would show. I can only assume that the Jews have some basis for their claim that they are more unpopular than at any time since the 1930s.
In trying to explain to themselves why this feeling against them has arisen they see a confluence of causal events. Part of the reason they see is the recognition by many Americans that despite what George Bush and the Jewish media say, September 11 was, in fact, a direct response to the U.S. government's support of Israeli aggression. Which is to say, many Americans understand that more than 3,000 of their fellow Americans lost their lives on September 11 because their government was looking after Israel's interests instead of America's interests.
The Jewish media, of course, use their typical deceit in deflecting blame from themselves in this regard, by setting up a straw man and then knocking it down. With disgust and incredulity in their voices they announce that anti-Semites are blaming Jews for the September 11 attacks, implying that what anti-Semites are saying is that Jews themselves staged the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and made it look like Muslims had done it in order to generate American hostility against Muslims. And then they shake their heads in pretended disbelief that anyone could be so stupid as to believe such an obviously incorrect explanation of September 11, all for the sake of blaming the poor, innocent Jews. And while they are knocking down this straw man, they are grinning up their sleeves. But the act is quite good enough to fool millions of Sally Soccermoms and Joe Sixpacks and to close their minds to any explanation except George Bush's "they did it because they hate our freedom" baloney.
But the fact remains that everyone except the Sally Soccermoms and Joe Sixpacks understands that the September 11 attack was a direct response by desperate people to the U.S. government's support of Israel's aggression in the Middle East, and those Americans who are capable of understanding also are capable of hating those who degrade and dishonor their country and cause the deaths of their fellow Americans.
Another part of the reason for the poll results the Jews are getting is, they believe, a delayed backlash against Jewish efforts during the last three or four years to extort "Holocaust" reparations payments from everyone in sight. I mean, can you believe that there are Gentiles in Switzerland and France and Germany and Poland and Sweden and other countries in Europe who dare to resent the Jews coming around with their hands out and demanding reparations from the people who saved their hides during the war? I can believe it.
Part of the reason for the Jews' unpopularity is the Bush government's war against Afghanistan and its threat of war against Iraq and other countries, along with a general recognition -- at least, outside the United States -- that the U.S. government does whatever Israel tells it to do. Many people in Europe do not appreciate the destabilization of their world -- they do not appreciate the threat of another world war hanging over their heads -- just because the world's number-one superpower lets itself be used for dangerous errands by that "shitty little country" Israel, as France's ambassador to the United Kingdom, Daniel Bernard, put it recently.
And finally there is the growing revulsion around the world at Israel's behavior in Palestine. Television viewers in the United States don't hear much except that the poor, innocent Israelis are trying to defend themselves from Palestinian suicide bombers, who are regularly referred to by everyone in the Bush government and by every media spokesman as "terrorists." But in Europe, where the news media are in not quite so tight a stranglehold as in the United States, the word is getting out about what the Jews are doing to the Palestinians. I'll read to you excerpts from a few British news reports about what the Jews did in the Palestinian refugee camp in Jenin. For more than a week after committing a massacre of Palestinian men, women, and children in Jenin, the Jews wouldn't permit ambulances, relief supplies, or journalists in, while they tried to hide the evidence of what they had done. Earlier this week a few British journalists managed to evade Israeli tanks and snipers around the camp and get in. All the excerpts I'll read now came from British newspapers published on April 16.
This first report is from The Times of London and was filed by reporter Janine Giovanni. I quote: ". . . we had to run through olive groves, dodging from tree to tree because of an Israeli sniper. I have seen demolished houses before. I have seen wells stuffed with bodies. I have seen civilians terrorised and living under siege. But what remains of Jenin camp is a wasteland of death that once housed 13,000 people."
Then Miss Giovanni describes the destruction and the horror, and she quotes a 30-year-old Palestinian who lived through the massacre: "I saw some children who were wounded take four days to die, bleeding to death because there was no one here to tend them."
Reporter David Blair wrote for the Telegraph, and I quote: "All the paraphernalia of normal life littered the ground: toilet paper, shoe boxes, sanitary towels, buckets, crockery, chairs, and clothes. Hanging over everything was the sickly smell of rotting corpses, an unknown number of which lay under the rubble. . . . Dazed people gathered around what remained of their homes. Riad Hussain, 30, saw a house receive a direct hit from a rocket fired by an Apache attack helicopter. The woman and baby inside were killed. Sixteen-year-old Fahdi Jamir, who lives on the edge of the worst devastation, said he saw seven arms and legs among the rubble. Kamal Anis said he saw an Israeli bulldozer scooping up 30 bodies and dumping them beside a ruined house. It knocked down the building, covering the corpses with rubble. It then drove over the pile, leveling it into a crude mass grave. Standing at the point where Mr. Anis said this had occurred, the stench of death was overpowering."
Reporter Phil Reeves wrote for London's The Independent, and I quote: "A monstrous war crime that Israel has tried to cover up for a fortnight has finally been exposed. Its troops have caused devastation in the centre of the Jenin refugee camp, reached yesterday by The Independent, where thousands of people are still living amid the ruins. . . . The sweet and ghastly smell of rotting human corpses is everywhere, evidence that it is a human tomb. The people who spent days hiding in basements crowded into single rooms as the rockets pounded in say there are hundreds of corpses entombed beneath the dust, under a field of debris, criss-crossed with tank and bulldozer treadmarks. . . . A quiet, sad-looking young man . . . led us across the wasteland, littered now with the detritus of what were once households, foam rubber, torn clothes, shoes, tin cans, children's toys. He suddenly stopped. This was a mass grave, he said, pointing. . . . We could not see the bodies, but we could smell them. . . . Until two weeks ago there were several hundred tightly packed homes in this neighbourhood . . . . They no longer exist. Around the central ruins there are many hundreds of half-wrecked homes. Much of the camp -- once home to 15,000 Palestinian refugees from the 1948 war -- is falling down. Every wall is speckled and torn with bullet holes and shrapnel, testimony of the awesome, random firepower of Cobra and Apache helicopters that hovered over the camp. Building after building has been torn apart, their contents . . . spewed out into the road. Every other building bears the giant, charred impact mark of a helicopter missile. Last night there were still many families and weeping children living amid the ruins, cut off from humanitarian aid. Ominously, we found no wounded . . . . Israel was still trying to, conceal these scenes yesterday. It had refused entry to Red Cross ambulances for nearly a week, in violation of the Geneva Convention. Yesterday it continued to try to keep us out. . . . Hidden, whispering people directed us through narrow alleys they thought were clear. When there were soldiers about, a finger would raise in warning, or a hand waved us back. We were welcomed by people desperate to tell what had happened. They spoke of executions and bulldozers wrecking homes with people inside. . . . Rajib Ahmed, from the Palestinian Energy Authority, came to try to repair the power lines. He was trembling with fury and shock. 'This is mass murder. . . . " All had the same message: tell the world." -- end of quote --
Yes, tell the world. That's easier to do when the Jews don't control every medium of mass communication, as they do in America. I've been sampling the news on CNN and Fox TV all week. All I learned about the Jewish assault on Jenin was that 13 Israeli soldiers were killed when a boobytrapped building collapsed on them. And of course, I heard over and over again about every suicide bombing, now officially known as "homicide bombing." But I have still to see any information about the mass murder of Palestinian civilians in Jenin or any of the other refugee camps invaded by the Jews during the past few weeks.
One other piece of information that was in the European media but not in the news over here was the way in which the Jews were targeting their victims. I'll quote now from a story in the Guardian four days ago: "'The soldiers had a map with them of the houses they wanted bulldozed and outlined them with a blue marker,' said Aisha Salah, whose house overlooks the field of destruction. "you could see the houses. You could see the trees. It was a very detailed map. I could even find my own home.' Ms. Salah's home was occupied by Israeli soldiers who entered her living room by punching a hole through the neighbour's wall." Rumors abound that the homes marked for destruction were the homes of professionals: of doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers. The men who were rounded up and executed or marched away by the Israelis were not just Palestinian fighters: they were intellectuals, writers, political activists: anyone who might provide leadership to the Palestinians.
That sounds an awful lot like what the Jews did in the Baltic countries and in Poland in the early days of the Second World War. In Poland, for example, they rounded up 25,000 of Poland's leading citizens -- army officers, professors, writers -- and murdered them. When the Germans found some of the mass graves of these murdered Poles in Russia and called in the Red Cross and representatives from neutral countries to see what the communists had done, the newspapers over here ignored the evidence and blamed the murders on the Germans. Years after the war these mass murders of the Polish elite still were being blamed on the Germans by the media here.
Anyway, in Europe the news about what the Jews are doing in Palestine is leaking out, and Europeans aren't buying the George Bush and Ariel Sharon explanation that the Jews are just defending themselves by going after terrorists in the refugee camps. The Jews are complaining that the news from Palestine, along with the other things I mentioned, is leading many Europeans not to like them. One of the most worrisome aspects about the current rise in anti-Jewish feeling, according to the Jewish poll takers, is that it isn't just anti-Israeli or anti-Zionist feeling. It is a real hatred of Jews as Jews, not just as Israelis or Zionists. They cite mobs attacking Jews in the streets of Ukrainian and Russian cities and shouting. "Kill the Jews!" They refer to attacks on synagogues in France and Germany. They complain that all of the old anti-Semitic conspiracy theories about Jews wanting to dominate the world are being resurrected.
Now, what's really happening is this: The Israelis are irritated by Palestinian suicide bombers. They decided to punish the Palestinians by simply slaughtering a bunch of them and destroying the homes of a few thousand Palestinian families. It would be like the government over here becoming irritated by the high Black crime rate and deciding to teach Blacks to behave themselves by wiping out a few Black neighborhoods and shooting a few thousand Blacks at random. The media, of course, would immediately go ballistic and begin shrieking, "Genocide!" But when the Jews do something equivalent, the media in this country can be counted on to not say much about it and to keep the lemmings preoccupied with ball games or the pedophile scandal in the Catholic Church. And the Jews figured that they would simply ride out the criticism in Europe, as they always have in the past, counting on their bought politicians to cover for them.
As they have done so often in the past, however, the Jews overreached themselves. Their arrogance led them to miscalculate. They are whining now that the world hates them just for trying to defend themselves. And of course, a growing number of thinking people do hate them -- at least, in those places where thinking people are well informed. One of our responsibilities here in America is to compensate as much as we can for the lack of independent media. Our responsibility is to inform thinking people here at least to the extent they are informed in Europe and then let their natural decency and sense of responsibility do the rest. Perhaps we can help make this the beginning of the end for the Jews. |
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Sirotnikov
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<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Saint Marcus
It still hasn't been proven, that's what the trial is for. The same should be done to Sharon. |
Sharon and everyone involved were already trialed in Israel and got their punishment in accordance to the degree in which they were guilty.
You seem to think that you know for sure that Sharon masterminded this, and he is reponsible for this alone.
You didn't care for the commander on the ground, Hubaika, who was until recently a Lebanese Minister!!
Your bias leaks out of your ears.
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No, Peres invited a UN inquiry. I doubt Sharon shares his enthusiasm. |
Well you can stop doubting.
Peres doesn't speak for himself. He's a too good politician and too honest man, to speak on his own behalf instead of doing his duty.
The invitation of the inquiry was decided upon by Peres and Sharon.
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What motives? Sharon is a murdering bastard, it's as simple as that. And it's also quite obvious he doesn't want peace. The worst part is, that's it's not only him. Sharon is extremely popular in the polls, which show that the Israelis agree with the oppression of the Palestinians. |
Obviously!!!!!!!!!!
Your motieves were uncovered when you posted this response
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why stop there? it's entirely true. |
to
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I really don't know -- I stopped reading after this: |
by the Mad Monk, who was appalled by the nazism of WFHerman's post.
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After what happened WW2, you'd expect the Israelis to be more peaceloving. Instead, they are changing from being the opressed, to being the oppressors. Sadly, we are to blame. Who should never have given Israel to the Jewish community in the first place. |
You mean we should have finished the Job in WWII?
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But what done is done, and a way has to be found for the two people to live in peace. With Sharon in charge, that is unlikely to happen. |
However one should pay the dearest respect to Arafat, who only killled thousands of israelis, jews, palestinians, lebanese, christians etc.
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And yeah, it has taken sometime, but after all the **** Israel has pulled I'm really starting to loathe that governement. I merely dislike the American governement, but I truly loathe that of the Israelis. I can't wait to see Sharon and co on trial in The Hague or Brussels. |
You're a damn fool and you don't care to see what's beyond your arrogant nose because you lifted it up so high.
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That said, I hope Arafat will be facing trial as well. He's as bad as Sharon is for sure, though far less important. Without Arafat, the terrorist attacks carried out by palestinians would still continue. |
At least that.
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Without Sharon (and with a more peaceloving leader in charge) the state terrorism carried out by the IDF can stop. So therefor, getting rid off Sharon is far more important than getting rid of Arafat (who certainly is "irrelevant", the only thing I and Sharon agree on). |
Obviously palsetinain terrorism is not state sponsored.
And it is by all means more peace loving that the Israeli actions, meant to avoid civilian casualties.
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Sirotnikov
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<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by WFHermans |
quote:
The Jews certainly are smart and well organized. But they also certainly do have certain inherent pathological tendencies that they seem utterly unable to keep under control. |
Jews have inherent pathological tendencies
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At controlling us they're pretty good. |
Jews are controlling the western world
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just as some of them are dancing a hora and gloating that with their control over the George Bush government they really have a stranglehold on the world |
Jews have a stranglehold on the world
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Jews are constantly taking polls, constantly sampling public opinion, so that they can estimate how much they can get away with at any given time. |
Jews are evil and sneaky
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When they force some new policy on our government, they take polls to see how the public is reacting to the policy. |
Jews control the US government
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They always are ready to fine tune the propaganda being fed to the public through their mass media in order to keep the Gentiles from becoming too restless. |
The control the mass media
The control the Gentiles
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Or if the Gentiles already are restless, then the purpose of their media propaganda is to divert blame from themselves onto someone else. |
They're obviously to blame for everything[/n]
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...Jews continually monitoring public opinion and then adjusting their propaganda line in order to move public opinion in one direction or another... |
Obviously Jews are the only ones adjusting their "propoganda"
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that no one controls their thinking or manipulates their opinions. That, however, is merely a popular illusion. |
Jews control thie thinking and manipulate their opinions.
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As far back as 1928 the Jew Edward Bernays wrote in his book Propaganda, and I quote: "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. . .. The important thing is that [propaganda] is universal and continuous; and in its sum total it is regimenting the public mind every bit as much as an army regiments the bodies of its soldiers." -- end of quote- |
Since the early days Jews have learnt to take over the world
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...but his fellow Jews, who had assimilated the book's message generations before Bernays had even written it, were busy elbowing their way into positions of control in this "unseen mechanism of society." |
Jews control society through mass manipulation
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they do control the "unseen mechanism of society" which consists of most if not all of the mass media of news and entertainment |
Jews control public opinion through their owned media
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in a way to keep the Gentiles from becoming restless and to protect themselves from blame and reprisals. |
Jews deserve blame and reprisals but divert the Gentles from it
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Now, the Jews are well known for their hypersensitivity to any sort of criticism. You look at one of them sideways, and he begins screaming that it's another "Holocaust." |
I'm obviously not a neo-nazi
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But this time there may be something to their chattering that the rest of the world doesn't love them as much as they think we should. |
I just boldened the nice parts.
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Their poll-takers are claiming now that anti-Jewish feeling is higher than it has been since the 1930s -- and that's something. |
Something good, he concludes.
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In the 1930s there was a big reaction in Europe -- and to a lesser degree in America -- to what the Jews were doing as communist commissars in the Soviet Union, butchering millions of Russians and Ukrainians. |
Jews are communists and butechered millions of Russians and Ukrainians
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America's foremost industrialist, Henry Ford, published a newspaper, the Dearborn Independent, which exposed the Jews in communism, the Jews in pornography, the Jews in White slavery, and the Jews in every other filthy, subversive, or destructive activity. |
The words speak for themselves.
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Many Christian preachers were not afraid to speak out against the Jews. Jews were only tolerated in polite society, but they generally weren't accepted. To a far greater extent than today, in the 1930s the Jews were recognized for what they are. |
Hail anti-semitism
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In the 1930s if a prominent person [...] didn't like what the Jews were doing, he wasn't afraid to speak out. He wasn't afraid to write a book, and there were publishers who would print it. |
I miss the times when being a nazi was easy
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Today, with the media and the politicians totally in the hands of the Jews |
He speaks for himself
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the recognition by many Americans that despite what George Bush and the Jewish media say, September 11 was, in fact, a direct response to the U.S. government's support of Israeli aggression. |
Really?
Let's see what WFHermans had to say about September 11 in a thread in the Off Topic on 25-03-2002 14:29
quote:
911 Was a Mossad False Flag Operation
By Sean McBride
(McBride is a discussant in newsgroups
investigating CIA drug-trade
involvement.)
3-23-2
I've been strongly resisting coming to the best guess that 911 was a classic Mossad false flag operation, conducted with the full complicity of a Zionist political network loyal to Israel at the highest levels of the U.S. government, but some recent events have made it almost impossible to ignore the obvious.
[...]
Here's the best guest so far of what happened on 9/11/2001...
Osama bin Laden is a high level agent operated by the Israeli Mossad in cooperation with the CIA. OBL and his inner circle recruited the hijackers for 911, with the naive recruitees having little idea of what they were really getting into or about whom was pulling their strings (this was the false flag component of the operation). The hijacked planes were taken over on 9/11 by remote control -- the hijackers lacked the piloting skills to execute the maneuvers that were performed. Well-established procedures for handling situations of this kind were deliberately overridden by orders from on high within the Bush administration. The planes were allowed to hit their targets.
Now the government is engaged in a massive propaganda campaign to suppress any reasonable questions about 911. If the cover-up starts to fall apart, it is likely that more and worse terrorist incidents will be engineered, martial law will be declared, and any skeptics and dissidents will be imprisoned or murdered. |
quote:
The Jewish media, of course, use their typical deceit in deflecting blame from themselves in this regard, by setting up a straw man and then knocking it down. With disgust and incredulity in their voices they announce that anti-Semites are blaming Jews for the September 11 attacks, implying that what anti-Semites are saying is that Jews themselves staged the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and made it look like Muslims had done it in order to generate American hostility against Muslims. And then they shake their heads in pretended disbelief that anyone could be so stupid as to believe such an obviously incorrect explanation of September 11, all for the sake of blaming the poor, innocent Jews.
It's interesting that he posts that, considering the fact WFHermans posted an article supporting that notion.
[q]a delayed backlash against Jewish efforts during the last three or four years to extort "Holocaust" reparations payments from everyone in sight. I mean, can you believe that there are Gentiles in Switzerland and France and Germany and Poland and Sweden and other countries in Europe who dare to resent the Jews coming around with their hands out and demanding reparations from the people who saved their hides during the war? I can believe it. |
Jews to not deserve reparations for the holocaust
"Holocaust" is not real, hence it's enquoted
Jews were saved by the Europeans during the war
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that the U.S. government does whatever Israel tells it to do. |
Speaks for its self.
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that "shitty little country" Israel, as France's ambassador to the United Kingdom, Daniel Bernard, put it recently. |
And was right
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I'll read to you excerpts from a few British news reports about what the Jews did in the Palestinian refugee camp in Jenin. For more than a week after committing a massacre of Palestinian men, women, and children in Jenin, the Jews wouldn't permit ambulances, relief supplies, or journalists in, while they tried to hide the evidence of what they had done. Earlier this week a few British journalists managed to evade Israeli tanks and snipers around the camp and get in. All the excerpts I'll read now came from British newspapers published on April 16.
This first report is from The Times of London and was filed by reporter Janine Giovanni. I quote: ". . . we had to run through olive groves, dodging from tree to tree because of an Israeli sniper. I have seen demolished houses before. I have seen wells stuffed with bodies. I have seen civilians terrorised and living under siege. But what remains of Jenin camp is a wasteland of death that once housed 13,000 people." |
Israelis massacared 13,000 people in Jenin
quote:
Kamal Anis said he saw an Israeli bulldozer scooping up 30 bodies and dumping them beside a ruined house. It knocked down the building, covering the corpses with rubble. It then drove over the pile, leveling it into a crude mass grave. |
This must be true since only the Jews use propoganda
quote:
where thousands of people are still living amid the ruins. . . |
Nice lie. Most people left the camp and only recently have been allowed back in.
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say there are hundreds of corpses entombed beneath the dust, under a field of debris, criss-crossed with tank and bulldozer treadmarks. |
Meanwhile, only 48 bodies were found by IDF and 38 by Palestinains.
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Much of the camp -- once home to 15,000 Palestinian refugees from the 1948 war -- is falling down. |
Wasn't it 13,000?
It had refused entry to Red Cross ambulances for nearly a week, in violation of the Geneva Convention.
Red Crescent ambulances carried bombs , in violation of the Geneva convention.
quote:
That's easier to do when the Jews don't control every medium of mass communication, as they do in America. |
Again, speaks for its self.
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I've been sampling the news on CNN and Fox TV all week. All I learned about the Jewish assault on Jenin was that 13 Israeli soldiers were killed when a boobytrapped building collapsed on them. |
Obviously this should be celebrated
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But I have still to see any information about the mass murder of Palestinian civilians in Jenin or any of the other refugee camps invaded by the Jews during the past few weeks. |
Because there were none.
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the way in which the Jews were targeting their victims. |
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The men who were rounded up and executed or marched away by the Israelis were not just Palestinian fighters: they were intellectuals, writers, political activists: anyone who might provide leadership to the Palestinians. |
Obviously it was their role in society rather than the kalashnikov they held that is so important.
quote:
That sounds an awful lot like what the Jews did in the Baltic countries and in Poland in the early days of the Second World War. In Poland, for example, they rounded up 25,000 of Poland's leading citizens -- army officers, professors, writers -- and murdered them. When the Germans found some of the mass graves of these murdered Poles in Russia and called in the Red Cross and representatives from neutral countries to see what the communists had done, the newspapers over here ignored the evidence and blamed the murders on the Germans. Years after the war these mass murders of the Polish elite still were being blamed on the Germans by the media here. |
Execution of Jews never happenned!
It were Jews who murdered poles and germans!
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It is a real hatred of Jews as Jews, not just as Israelis or Zionists. They cite mobs attacking Jews in the streets of Ukrainian and Russian cities and shouting. "Kill the Jews!" They refer to attacks on synagogues in France and Germany. They complain that all of the old anti-Semitic conspiracy theories about Jews wanting to dominate the world are being resurrected. |
Nazism is alive again! Cheers!
quote:
Now, what's really happening is this: The Israelis are irritated by Palestinian suicide bombers. |
450 dead are an "irritation"
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And the Jews figured that they would simply ride out the criticism in Europe, as they always have in the past, counting on their bought politicians to cover for them. |
Jews buy politicians in Europe
quote:
As they have done so often in the past, however, the Jews overreached themselves. Their arrogance led them to miscalculate. They are whining now that the world hates them just for trying to defend themselves. And of course, a growing number of thinking people do hate them -- at least, in those places where thinking people are well informed. One of our responsibilities here in America is to compensate as much as we can for the lack of independent media. Our responsibility is to inform thinking people here at least to the extent they are informed in Europe and then let their natural decency and sense of responsibility do the rest. |
It is important to hate Jews
quote:
Perhaps we can help make this the beginning of the end for the Jews. |
Perhaps we can help make this the beginning of the end for the Jews.
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17-04-2002 19:07
... how about a swastika as a logo? It is a simbol from hindu culture , representing fertility! Although the indians aren't one of the elite race, the simbol sure looks good.
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