18-04-2002 17:21									#1
	Should generally approved modifications be defaulted in patches? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

On different threads in the past I've presented myself as one of those who don't use editors and just stick to the 100% official and latest version of a game (although I'll definitely try some of the mods later on).

Reasons? --> to compare apples to apples amongst equals (aren't we all here on Apolyton ) and to not have to deal with extra efforts and difficulties (not all of us are 'handy' PC-wizards) trying to implement these changes.

I kind of counted on Firaxis to implement better settings into the official version. Come on, weren't the specific suggestions about eg bombard capabilities and naval movement rates broadly approved on these forums? Why do we still have to dive in the editor to adjust these better !! settings?

Firaxis and others might reason: improving the editor allows everyone to adjust the game to his/her own preferences, but as I've mentioned above, many of us don't like that.

My suggestion: let Firaxis implement 'generally approved' suggestions/fixes into the game (patches) as a default parameter.
The PC-wizards and sworn editor users wouldn't mind and a majority of players would be helped and pleased with a better game ..!



Fair enough?
AJ

	18-04-2002 17:40									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Yes, but what happens if Civ Fanatics generally agree to one setting, and Apolyton generally agree to a completely different setting who do Firaxis support?

And for that matter, when do Apolytoners generally agree anyway?!?

	18-04-2002 17:42									#3
	Put an end to popups!

Yes I think that the changes made should be default in the standard game For example the ability to kill units with bombard This should be made a part of the game

	18-04-2002 17:48									#4
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But WHAT are generally approved setting.

Is it giving corruption lowering ability to 10 buildings?

I guess no!

Is it rasising opt. num. of cities to 200?

I guess no, that would prevent For. Palace.

Is raising HP?

I don't think so, since noone has agreed which value taht should be.

Lowering draft times to 20.

Yes it was!

And guess what, it's in NEW patch.

	18-04-2002 17:50									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Deathwalker Yes I think that the changes made should be default in the standard game For example the ability to kill units with bombard This should be made a part of the game

ONLY if some ships, like AEGIS cruiser could counter it.

	18-04-2002 18:26									#6
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Player1,

The related threads should make clear if something's generally approved or not. To be generally approved, that's another discussion/thread.

But regarding the two suggestions I've made, I think most Apolyton posters agreed on the 'flawness' of the original concept, so IMO Firaxis should have implemented the bombard changes into the game itself, not only into the editor

Skanky Burns,

Does that happen a lot (fundamentally different views/approaches between Apo and CivFan majorities)? I wonder.
If so, Apolyton should just buy the other site and get rid of those whining disagreeers

Seriously, as the common reasonable people we are , I'm confident that our combined efforts can come up with a decent compromise.

AJ

	18-04-2002 18:27									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

We can't even agree about the time of day around here. There is no way anyone could come up with "generally approved" settings.

It's not a bad idea, but I don't see how it could work.

	19-04-2002 19:47									#8
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If 80% of the people believe something would be a good change/addition, then it would be a good idea for a games designer to make this change/addition at least toggleable.
Many suggested changes however probably require a substantial rewriting of the code.

Robert

	19-04-2002 20:03									#9
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by kailhun If 80% of the people believe something would be a good change/addition, then it would be a good idea for a games designer to make this change/addition at least toggleable. ...

That's it Kailhun/Robert:

AT LEAST TOGGLEABLE.

They shouldn't 'force' us to dive in the editor for these settings.

AJ

	19-04-2002 21:10									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Ot's impossible to tell if a modification is generally approved : there are almost only hardcore gamers on Poly (or on Civfan), at least people involved enough in the game to talk about it. Even if we generally agree on something (which is rarely the case), we would still represent a very small minority of Civ players : hundreds apolytoners are nothing compared hundreds of thousands players.

As a fan community, we have to pinpoint problems and maybe give new ideas, but the decision should be made by the game designers... Currently, there are already a bunch of "technical" options, which can confuse any casual gamers, such as keeping the random number seed between turns or not.

If there were toggleable options for generally approved modifications, the preference popup would be filled by options like "planes can sink ships", "planes can destroy land units", "artillery can sink ships", "artillery can destrioy land units" etc. Toying with the options list would be more complicated than toying with the editor

	19-04-2002 22:10									#11
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I kind of disagree on that Spiffor.

I think that 'generally approved' suggestions by the 'hardcore' gamers should be taken very seriously. Hell, before Jan 2002 I belonged to the thousands of home players that you've mentioned, but I was/am a hardcore civ gamer in terms of competence and quantity of played games. Man, I would have been happy to know that good suggestions were provided by hardcore gamers on internet forums and that the best suggestions were programmed into the game.

Committed civ fans and players as we are here on Apolyton just take the lead in pointing out what's wrong and what's not. I'm pretty confident that the majority of real civ players that don't internet yet would be/are pleased with some of the 'generally approved' suggestions that have come up here already.

What's wrong with the preferences being filled with more options
(I'm sure they can reduce the number of options you've mentioned)? As it is right now there are already +/- 20 options!

And why should the decision be made by the programmers? Customer is king, isn't he? At the end, customers will decide what game they want, as they decide to buy or not, and programmers and publishers simply HAVE to listen if they don't want to get outrivaled by other companies that DO listen.

As the internet grows and becomes more popular every day (I myself am a relative newbie on these forums, check out how many newbies arrive every day) the player's suggestions become even increasingly important as player's will have acces to all info and opinions.

Programmers that don't listen will be wiped away!
The competitors don't sleep (eg Activision --> CTP).

OUR REMARKS (if broadly/generally approved --> what? that's another discussion, but altered bombard capabilities was/is definitely approved) ARE VERY IMPORTANT!

Sorry for the length and kind regards to you Spiffor

AJ

	19-04-2002 23:00									#12
	Remove this text

"Generally approved"



Your general approvement doesnt get beyond those people here and on civfanatics. Being a little percentage of all the civ gamers.

	19-04-2002 23:17									#13
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For my answer I refer to my previous post, Atahualpa!

AJ

	19-04-2002 23:36									#14
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quote: Originally posted by AJ Corp. The FAIR And why should the decision be made by the programmers? Customer is king, isn't he? At the end, customers will decide what game they want, as they decide to buy or not, and programmers and publishers simply HAVE to listen if they don't want to get outrivaled by other companies that DO listen. As the internet grows and becomes more popular every day (I myself am a relative newbie on these forums, check out how many newbies arrive every day) the player's suggestions become even increasingly important as player's will have acces to all info and opinions.

I have to agree with Spiffor on this one. While there are more people accessing the Internet everyday, I don't think the participants here or at CivFanatics are a representative sample of the full Civ 3 gaming audience.

I tend to agree with some of the sentiments expressed by Og in this thread re: the audience that Firaxis is trying to appeal to.

I hope that Firaxis does review the many excellent suggestions made on these boards and consider them when they develop "patches." In fact, I believe they do. But I cannot fault them for not adopting everything that might be considered "generally accepted."

Regards,
KF

	20-04-2002 02:39									#15
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Yes, but you are unlikely to get consensus on the mods.