23-05-2002 19:43									#121
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OK, La Fayette -- this time you have me totally nonplussed --

"impure blood will not water our furrows" ??? wtf!

I 'think' I got the rest

SG[1]

	23-05-2002 19:43									#122
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ST

Sorry about the confusion...right up your alley...was meant as a compliment and an acknowledgement of your vaunted and esteemed prowess as a researcher.

To all who complain about my use of the language:
--I bow to the reality that your English is a billion times more proficient than
my [fill in the blank]
--I hold to the view that the communicator is responsible if the commication
goes wrong...mea culpa
--how similar these two words...idiom and idiot

For what it's worth, I was just asking for help in understanding a new (to me) game strat.

And the doubters marvel at how astrologers can say Mercury retrograde tends to facillitate communication problems.

	23-05-2002 23:55									#123
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quote: impure blood will not water our furrows

He's right, of course. I only use pure blood to water my furrows.

Google translation says that the rest of it is:

"What do you think my friends of them? The language of Molière was spoken in all the courses about Europe, and here in Apolyton, aren't we the successors of all these more or less enlightened despots?"

Is that essentially it?

	24-05-2002 00:48									#124
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Yep, my version - probably incorrect - came out as something like
"So what do you think, my friends? The language of Moliere was spoken in all the Courts of Europe; are not we at Apolyton the successors of all those more or less enlightened rulers?"

SG[1]

	24-05-2002 00:53									#125
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"Courts of Europe" makes a lot more sense than "courses about Europe".

The Google translator did say it's a beta version.

	24-05-2002 00:56									#126
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Well my French is of the 'empirical kind' I have found that after you say the the magic words, "Je voudrais acheter six bouteilles, s'il vous plait." even the most recalcitrant Frenchman finds that he can in fact speak English

SG[1]

	24-05-2002 01:50									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk your vaunted and esteemed prowess

"Yada bada say" was easier for me , I had to send every word into my dictionary now.

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk ...right up your alley...was meant as a compliment and an acknowledgement

I understood you flattered (bootlicked?) , but I thought you need no help.
Anyway tell me if you will be prepared to the crime, I am prepared to help.

	24-05-2002 12:08									#128
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sorry, DP

Last edited by Graag on 24-05-2002 at 12:16

	24-05-2002 12:13									#129
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Finished 700AD (I think)
The reason I say 'I think' is that on that turn I destroyed/liberated the last city of all AI civs. Although I got a new set the next turn, does that technically count as a win? I skimmed some of the posts to look for rules and came across:

quote: I then decided to plan a combined attack of the last city of all enemy civs (it was fun planning that). 'Victory' in 1320AD

in the rules section, so I assume that counts as a victory.

I've played a couple of challenges and a couple of OCC before, and I knew from experiance to load up civ242 rather than MGE for easier AI.
My strat was to expand as much as possible early, attack as soon as all but the last city of a civ can be defeated and build elephant/knights when a city cannot do anything else useful (barracks where applicable). The game probably could have been over a bit quiker as I expanded too much and didnt build enough barracks.
I can put .sav's and my log on if anyone i interested.

I do enjoy challenges like this and I'd love a new one... something a little unusual; - having to build some wonders etc. i interesting.
Might be a good idea to start on a medium world, maybe on a small island to make things a little more varied and interesting - lots of different strategies people can play. Small worlds mean early conquer every time, a medium to large world means building a civilisation of some kind before attacking, which i like, and the chance to play for trade, which is negated in a small world.

Lot of fun!

	24-05-2002 14:14									#130
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Nope Graag - back to the slaughterhouse - the meaning of the extract you quoted was that in order to avoid the restarting civs phenomena DrFell set out to destroy all 6 other civs on the same turn - so there was no next turn for them to restart ...

SG[1]

	24-05-2002 21:13									#131
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quote: Julius Campo SG... Qu'en pensez-vous mes amis ? La langue de Molière était parlée dans toutes les cours d'Europe, et ici à Apolyton, ne sommes-nous pas les successeurs de tous ces despotes plus ou moins éclairés ?

Result of the translation exam :
Scouse Gits :B+
Campo : C
Google : D

	24-05-2002 21:19									#132
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Why thank you, kind Sir...

SG[1]

	24-05-2002 23:56									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Nope Graag - back to the slaughterhouse - the meaning of the extract you quoted was that in order to avoid the restarting civs phenomena DrFell set out to destroy all 6 other civs on the same turn - so there was no next turn for them to restart ...

But I did destroy them all on the same turn! Each city I took/destroyed gave me a 'the civiliation has been destroyed' message, but they still restarted.

Here is a zip for AD680 and 700, the tun before and then the turn in which I took the cities:

	25-05-2002 14:00									#134
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Graag

Indeed you did conquer the final city of each Civ on the last turn. Congratulations are in order!!

How significant to your victory was building the Gardens?? I am retrying this one with more of a focus on quick victory (quicker than the first time, I hope) and am trying to get by without it. Thanks for providing the saves.

	03-06-2002 07:51									#135
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I retried this game using a version of the Strat outlined by DrFell...keep it lean, attack early and often with vets, no bribing of AI cities, take all the AI 's down on the same turn...and I finished in 150b. Even considering I had played the map before that is a vast improvement over 720a, the result the first time.

I learned something new and powerful following this path. I was unable to do it without temples and the Garden, though.

How do you deal with a red face in a size two city, with three units for martial law-- without a temple?? Making an Elvis kills production of either food or shields or both. The problem was generating black faces because I now had too many cities as I began to capture the AI cities. This started at city 14 (12+2 from AI. Perhaps I built too many of my own.?.)

There is no denying the power of this approach on a small map but it sure looks ugly. A bunch of size 3 and 4 cities hardly "seems" like a Civilazation. Brings to mind a song from my youth with the lyric, "she may be ugly, but she sure can cook." This was great fun.

	04-06-2002 04:47									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk How do you deal with a red face in a size two city, with three units for martial law-- without a temple??

One red face?

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk The problem was generating black faces

No, this is not a problem, but an advantage. The reason is a Civ2 bug that turns very unhappy faces immediately to happy. See happiness quirk..., the DaveV's post from 23-05-2001 17:41 and my subsequent post.

	04-06-2002 07:44									#137
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker No, this is not a problem, but an advantage. The reason is a Civ2 bug that turns very unhappy faces immediately to happy.

Yes, I remember this discussion and other mentions of this quirk over the years; and I recalled it and tried to implement it (move out the milita), but the red face remained.

I was thinking forward, planning what to do when the city grew. I wanted my cities to grow so they could produce faster. I wanted to quickly build a large attack force. I found I would need a temple to keep from going into disorder when they grew. My impression is that the quirk works if you want to limit city size. I didn't; so, it was a problem and not an advantage.

	04-06-2002 07:47									#138
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker One red face?

I have no idea what you are trying to communicate by this. A complete sentence might help.

	06-06-2002 02:43									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk How do you deal with a red face in a size two city, with three units for martial law-- without a temple??

quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker One red face

I think I understood your sentence - there were 2 black faces before the martial law, and one red face after it, weren't they?

About bug/quirk: You need a "luxury" type item (luxuries or Gardens) to get the quirk to work.

	06-06-2002 05:40									#140
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Slow

I think the problem comes from your focusing on and asking about a sentence taken out of context. Go back to the original post and reread the previous sentence to the one you quote. I say there that I could not do it without building temples and the Garden. That statement forms the predicate for the sentence you quote.

With the Gardens my size two city had one happy and one unhappy...one red face in the Pop screen. ( In the happiness screen it was black, red; modified to blue, red by units; and green, red by Wonders.) That does not create an immediate problem--the city is not in disorder; but it does pose a future problem as the city can not grow without disorder eventually becoming a problem. I tried every permutation of moving units, etc, and could not discover how the 'quirk' was helpful if the cities were to grow and not be burdened by elvi or 60% Luxuries (either of which would reduce shields).

If there is a way for a city to grow and not fall into disorder when there are no units in the garrison, I would like to know.

	06-06-2002 05:48									#141
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You need infrastructure or luxuries even with HG after you grow past size 2. Another quirk you can use is that just 2 luxuries will make a double unhappy person happy.

	07-06-2002 01:50									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk I think the problem comes from your focusing on and asking about a sentence taken out of context. Go back to the original post and reread the previous sentence to the one you quote.

I agree. I missed the sentence with Gardens.

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk I tried every permutation of moving units, etc,

I think you needn't to experiment. The happiness mechanics is clear.
If you imagine that black face is -2, red face -1, blue 0 and green 1, you need the sum 0 so that the city don't riot.
An example: The Gardens gives you +1 if applied to the red face, but +3 if applied to the black face. So, if you move a combat unit out of the city, you lose -1 (the martial law don't work), but (in some situations) you gain +2 (the Gardens gives you +3 in place of +1).

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk ...and could not discover how the 'quirk' was helpful if the cities were to grow and not be burdened by elvi or 60% Luxuries...

The quirk works if any happiness-mechanism of the "luxury" type (luxuries, Gardens, Cure for cancer, Courthouse and Palace in democracy) applies to the black face. Cure for Cancer and democracy is out of the question, so you need luxuries from Elvis, luxuries from trade or Gardens.

A sidenote: the disorder needn't be so bad: it preserves food, shield support and gold, only shield surplus and beakers are lost.