11-04-2001 23:58									#91
	Support Apolyton

I don't like this auto-worker business one bit!

First, the greatest cost in creating a road is NOT population, rather money. The materials and the machines to build the roads are the costly things. As for having my road-working population "stolen" from me -- HA -- let them have them because generally the population that I would have working on the roads in my empire are criminals (properly supervised of course )!

While its probably too late to change to the PW system, I still believe that it is a better solution than auto-workers. This is one of the few improvements that CTP had over CIV. While CIV II is a vastly superior game than either of the CTP games, PW is one of the features that should be implemented in CIV III (along with stacking units and improving the sea terrain).

	12-04-2001 01:59									#92
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

No one can really say that one is better than the other. PW eliminates the micromanagement of needing workers to improove the tiles, but you are stuck with how the computer improoves it. You also still need other units with the abilities to transform terrain, build roads/RR between cities, and build fortifications and military bases.

The Settler/worker system has the hassles of micromanaging the workers, and the problems of putting them in auto-mode, but allows you the privilage of building your civ exactly how you want it. Most, if not all people in favor of the settler/worker system are OK with dealing with the micromanagement problems, and there are many ideas as to how to improove the auto-mode of workers including a build-queue for the workers, blueprints of your future civ, and more options for the AI to follow for workers in auto-mode.

Both have their ups and downs that will never be smoothed out no matter how many times you go over them. But this is Civilization 3 by Sid Meier. It will follow the pattern of it's predicesors Civ's 1 and 2 and have a settler/worker system. If you want PW play ctp 2 (or 3) by activision.

	12-04-2001 04:50									#94
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Airdrik I agree with you completely. Both sytems have their problems that will always be there unless Firaxis can come up with an AI that is completely flawless, so there will always be problems. Also I just don't think you get the whole effect of creating a civilization by having the computer doing most of the work for you too. You don't like the settler/worker system in Civ don't play just play CtP2 maybe they might make a Ctp3 for you PW followers.

	12-04-2001 07:24									#95
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

If we're lucky CTP will be put to rest by Activision. Maybe if a third-party developer took over the license it'll be created with an eye for quality, not half-finished games.

	12-04-2001 07:50									#96
	Increase the size of your Attachments

i dont want a building cue for the settlers - making the freakin cue takes up too much time.
however, what i have always thought should be implimented was the SHIFT-clickNdrag concept. if you have worker/engineer at point X and want to build every road between X and Y you should be able to hold the shift key down and drag the cursor to the new location.
e.g. to build a train track:

Y‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡
‡‡‡‡X
# (click+SHIFT on X hold shift and drag to Y then release)
#
#
#
Z

and if you want to make a turn, after you release key/button when you reach Y, the unit would stay selected, then you could click+SHIFT on Y and drag to Z, and so on. you would double click the last point you want the unit to stop at to signify the end of the worker's turn. so in this case you would double click Z to end the unit's turn.

while this would only allow you to build one improvement at a time (i.e. only road, or only irrigation, etc.) it would still cut down on micromanagemnt WITHOUT having to waste time on stupid build cues.

just my 2¢

[This message has been edited by Nemo (edited April 12, 2001).]

	12-04-2001 20:28									#100
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Here's a comment I gave in poll PW vs Workers.

In COLONIZATION there is this possibility to automate the tranport of resources and tradegoods by wagontrails. Each term you can see these wagontrailunits you've build and programmed by yourself riding around out of themselves from one place to another. A bit like the camel in CIV-I&II, but also significantly different and more sofisticated.
The transportprogram, a kind of a small game"macro"program, takes away a lot of micromanagement.
When you open this program a matrix appears on your screen. You'll have to fill in the next things, from left to right in a line:

1. choose the city, from a rolldownlist, from where goods are to be taken away
   
2. choose the kind of goods (iron ore, timber, cotton, weapons etc.) from a rolldownlist,
   
3. choose the city, from a rolldownlist, where goods are to be brought
   
4. choose the kind of goods from a rolldownlist, which are to be left in this city
   

	13-04-2001 09:22									#102
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

My idea on the queue:
you hit 'q' (for queue)

all units and cities dissappear (options to leave on?)

all terrain imps that have been queued by previous workers appear as a translucent overlay (so you can still see what's behind them)
the current worker's queue is transparent over that (so that it can be seen over everything else, but still see behind it)

you move the cursor to the position as if moving the worker and hit the keys to improove the land (which will appear translucently over everything else)

if you want to dequeue something, you go to the tile and hit 'u' for undo, and a pop up list appears with the improovments that can be dequeued.

you hit the spacebar or enter when done to activate it, or escape to cancel.

	13-04-2001 14:00									#104
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Someone pointed out that the AI in civ2 already uses sort of a PW system. for every improvement the city builds, a tile in the city radius is improved. this leads to the interesting events of farmland growing in cities without supermarkets, and roads and irrigation appearing across the channel from a coastal AI city, on a continent the AI civ has no units or other presence.

now if we implement this for us, I can forsee an AI opening a hut on a city square with rodas and irrigation. (Dang! I meant to get to that one...)

	13-04-2001 20:06									#105
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Actually, right now if you work a square with a hut on it, the hut dissappears (I don't know if that is true for the AI, though)

	14-04-2001 09:33									#106
	Put an end to popups!

I don't understand why some of you take an almost fanatic stance in the keeping everything like it was in civII. CivIII will be a new game build on the same concept of CivII. Expect changes! If you are so fanatic about keeping everything as it was in CivII Then why develop CivIII at all? What if Sid Meyer desides that he likes the idea of public works over settler/engineers/terraformers/whatever. What are you fanatics going to do? Lynch him? For prostituting himself with activision concepts? I personally prefer public works because it's easier to manage, it's more realistic and more intuitive. If you want to keep settlers/etc. then come up with some arguments why you think they work better instead of grabbing a torch and a coil of rope, screaming: "we want everything as it used to be!"

	14-04-2001 09:52									#107
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Settlers/Engineers are good in the early game. I'll head to a new site and build road on a few select tiles while on the way. This does delay the date of the Founding of a new city, but it helps to connect everything and to give the new city some improved tiles to work off of until it's ready to spawn another settler to finish the improvements.

I do like the Idea of using two pop to build a settler/engineer, but I'm not sure of the Public Works concept. If they have a seperate unit for building from the settler, I'd still like to see the settler still be able to build something, at 1/3 of the worker rate though. This will still allow some faster improvement thoughput while my Civ is in it's early stages.

As for trade and using settlers to move pop from one city to another, I'd like to see the ability to set up some sort of colinization "trade" where you can migrate some of your excess pops to a new city. Just make sure that they don't contribute to ANYTHING while they are in transit.