21-04-2002 06:06									#31
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His post is in no connection to the point of this thread, he's just using random accusations as pseudo-arguments against Europe, just like your "there's clearly a trend developing". It's purely the will to appear eloquent by using damn empty phrases, thus totally leading the whole issue ad absurdum. Could we try and get topical instead of rhetorical?

	21-04-2002 06:11									#32
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"I find it shameful that the Catholic Church should permit a bishop, one with lodgings in the Vatican no less, a saintly man who was found in Jerusalem with an arsenal of arms and explosives hidden in the secret compartments of his sacred Mercedes,"

The Church does not control the political beliefs of individual bishops(See liberation theology). The Cathecism makes it perfectly clear where it stands on terrorism.

"I find it shameful that the Roman Observer, the newspaper of the Pope--a Pope who not long ago left in the Wailing Wall a letter of apology for the Jews--accuses of extermination a people who were exterminated in the millions by Christians."

I'd like to see the exact wording, but the Israelis have definitley exterminated alot of Palestinians.

"I find it shameful that this newspaper denies to the survivors of that people (survivors who still have numbers tattooed on their arms) the right to react, to defend themselves, to not be exterminated again."

Hyperbole. I suppose defending, reacting, and not being exterminated means the right to commit human rights abuses. In any case, the Vatican is pacifist about 99% of the time.

"I find it shameful that they are on the side of the very ones who inaugurated terrorism, killing us on airplanes, in airports, at the Olympics, and who today entertain themselves by killing western journalists. "

The Church is NOT on the Palestinian side. It does not support suicide bombings. The author is an idiot who supports hyperbole and propganda, trying to use memories of a past human rights tragedy to justify the other.

Personally I find it shameful that our President thinks Sharon is a man of peace.

	21-04-2002 06:52									#33
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Shi, the author is talking about the Italian clergy, not the Vatican. And you know, the NYPD has exterminated a lot of black people.

I don't think it's good to link anti-Semitism in Europe and criticism of Israel more than necessary. It weakens opposition to anti-Semitism.


David Floyd: I agree that the Holocaust shouldn't be used like that. At the same time, don't you think it shouldn't be used against Israel either? I'm sickened by people who say that "Israel is attacking the Palestinians like Hitler attacked Jews."

	21-04-2002 08:57									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion 1. censored. 2. So it's a damn traitor 3. Seriously, how can he write such a bull? Jews are scared in German cities and others? That's news to me.

Just when I'm about to come to the conclusion that Europe is enlightened and capable of self examination, I see one of your posts and that idea fades away.

	21-04-2002 14:50									#35
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And just when I started to think Americans can use decent arguments I saw a post from you.

Care to elaborate? You'll find that's 2 short joke lines in about 5 posts full of a decent examination. You're just seeing what you want to see in order to keep up your bigoted point of view, the rest you ignore.

You seem t oexpect people to touch you with velvet gloves, but frankly I don't give a damn about your private life, so your patronizing behaviour doesn't reach me at all. And I don't give a crap about your attitude towards Europe.

	21-04-2002 15:30									#36
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It's one hell of a PR victory for Sharon if all criticism of his government is now viewed as an attack on the Jewish people and faith. I had genuinely no idea that he was the voice, the soul and the conscience of all Jewish people and thought.

	21-04-2002 15:33									#37
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quote: Just when I'm about to come to the conclusion that Europe is enlightened and capable of self examination

They are much better than us Americans, who seem to be almost impossible to examine the crap things we've done through out history.

	21-04-2002 15:37									#38
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc No one is seriously saying that Europe is antisemetic. What is getting the type of threads to show up so regularly is suprise over the relative silence with which Europe met aprox. 18 months of civilian murder in comparison to the "Suicide bombers are the poor man's F-16." rhetoric and official governmental criticism we are seeing from the continent now.

Have you spent the last 18 months with your eyes closed and your fingers firmly wedged in your ears, DinoDoc? With the exception of a week or so after 9-11 and the Queen Mother's death, the ME situation has made UK broadsheet front pages every day.

The shots of those Isreali soldiers getting lynched a year ago were in the papers for weeks. Every single bomb attack has been prominently reported. I'm glad you used that "relative" as a qualification, because it's the one thing that saves that post from being complete crap.

	21-04-2002 15:41									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui They are much better than us Americans, who seem to be almost impossible to examine the crap things we've done through out history.

I take it you're not being sarcastic - don't be so hard on yourself, I have said before that enough of you, at least on this board, make an exception to that, though I must say that even many of the American posters can be like that. And sinc they're the intellectual upper class - poor country

If you are being sarcastic - f*ck off

Bugs - that's right, and it's similar in Germany. But then the ME situation is not *the* runner here, we still have scandals of politicians and Ronald B Schill being a cokenose. Isn't that a lot more important than a brutal war in the holy land?

	21-04-2002 16:13									#40
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The youth of Denmark flaunts the kaffiyeh and Jews are afraid to walk around here. Quite an amusing read, because I personally just brushed off the old kaffiyeh and I'm getting ready for killing off some Jews. Assuming of course I can find some - discrimination of Jews is virtually non-existant in Denmark because there just aren't any Jews around (8000 or so, and only one synagogue). According to Fallaci, we sure can't generalize and have prejudices about the Israelis, but when it comes to the Europeans, it's okay.

I find Fallaci shameful, and I'm disappointed to see that a journalist can be so unconstructive and rely so much on second-hand information. Just like I'm disappointed to see that Lincoln needs to ask if this garbage is remotely valid.

	21-04-2002 16:14									#41
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OK.... now what the frig is kaffiyeh?

	21-04-2002 16:15									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Just when I'm about to come to the conclusion that Europe is enlightened and capable of self examination They are much better than us Americans, who seem to be almost impossible to examine the crap things we've done through out history.

Your kidding right? We are ****ing obsessed with the **** we have done in the Past.

It's on TV everyday

Its in just about every paper that you pick up

We are obsessed with the past. So much so that we can barely move forward.

	21-04-2002 16:16									#43
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Are you OK Spray, or is it time for nervous medication again?

	21-04-2002 16:21									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion And just when I started to think Americans can use decent arguments I saw a post from you. Care to elaborate? You'll find that's 2 short joke lines in about 5 posts full of a decent examination. You're just seeing what you want to see in order to keep up your bigoted point of view, the rest you ignore.

You don't even know what my point of view is

Tell me mystro. What is my point of view?

quote: You seem t oexpect people to touch you with velvet gloves, but frankly I don't give a damn about your private life, so your patronizing behaviour doesn't reach me at all. And I don't give a crap about your attitude towards Europe.

Are you smoking something? I have no idea what you are talking about. My private live is just that. Private. It has nothing to do with the fact that Pal are murdering Israelies in cafes and on buses. And it has nothing to do with the IDF going after gunman and killing Pal. So far, your the only one that has brought up anything about my personal life. And further more, Stay Away from my personal life.

	21-04-2002 16:22									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Are you OK Spray, or is it time for nervous medication again?

Is that all you got? Is that your big plan to insult me.

	21-04-2002 16:25									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln I find it shameful that in France, the France of Liberty-Equality-Fraternity, they burn synagogues, terrorize Jews, profane their cemeteries. I find it shameful that the youth of Holland and Germany and Denmark flaunt the kaffiah just as Mussolini's avant garde used to flaunt the club and the fascist badge. I find it shameful that in nearly all the universities of Europe Palestinian students sponsor and nurture anti-semitism. That in Sweden they asked that the Nobel Peace Prize given to Shimon Peres in 1994 be taken back and conferred on the dove with the olive branch in his mouth, that is on Arafat. I find it shameful that the distinguished members of the Committee, a Committee that (it would appear) rewards political color rather than merit, should take this request into consideration and even respond to it. In hell the Nobel Prize honors he who does not receive it.

The Nobel Peace Prize is not Swedish, it's Norwegian.

	21-04-2002 16:28									#47
	You're not that good in rhetorics, Spray... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I must admit I've never seen such empty posts built up with so many words and phrases before.

	21-04-2002 16:30									#48
	Re: You're not that good in rhetorics, Spray... Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion I must admit I've never seen such empty posts built up with so many words and phrases before.

You should look at you own posts more

	21-04-2002 18:50									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny Have you spent the last 18 months with your eyes closed and your fingers firmly wedged in your ears, DinoDoc?

No I have not, Bugs. I genuinely have not seen any action coming from the EU, which is the single largest donor to the PA, that compares to the cries of war crimes, threatening of trade sanctions that we are currently seeing coming from both government circles and the general public. Please correct me on this point if I'm wrong.

	21-04-2002 18:59									#50
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The very fact you're using a sunglasses smiley as message icon questions your credibility, DD

Sprayber, as I have said before, the one post you quoted from doesn't come close to what I usually contribute. It's just 2 lines of messing about in a big thread of discussion, have you nothing better to do than getting on the nerves of other people by rubbing theír noses in every breadcrumb on the table?

	21-04-2002 19:02									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion The very fact you're using a sunglasses smiley as message icon questions your credibility, DD

Is that better now, my little German friend?

	21-04-2002 19:03									#52
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Yes. You may pass now.

	21-04-2002 19:53									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny It's one hell of a PR victory for Sharon if all criticism of his government is now viewed as an attack on the Jewish people and faith. I had genuinely no idea that he was the voice, the soul and the conscience of all Jewish people and thought.

And what about when any talk about anti-Semitism is considered Zionist propaganda and support for Ariel Sharon?

Ecthelion, how would you know if German Jews were scared? Have you talked to any lately?

	21-04-2002 19:56									#54
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd I fully agree. And speaking of firebombing civilians, it's hypocritical that we try people like Milosevic for crimes against humanity, while people who were responsible for similiar amounts of civilian death, such as former US Gen. Curtis LeMay, are held as heroes.

RIGHT ON!!!

Serbs rule!

	21-04-2002 20:20									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Natan Ecthelion, how would you know if German Jews were scared? Have you talked to any lately?

You're right. I haven't. So they must be scared.

As a matter of fact, their representatives in Germany (yes Natan, there is such a thing as the Central Council of Jews in Germany and they're a bunch of whiners) whine about just anything. They're the ones that complain about latent anti-semitism (I didn't know I'm hateful towards Jews until they told me, odd) and anything, but they don't complain about a majority of the German population persecute them. It's a fact that can't be denied we've got some real misdirected teens in the country that flame Jews and attack placed that a man with honor just doesn't attack (such as graves, holocaust memorials at KZ sites etc), but that doesn't make them scared, because it doesn't. I find it laughable how you demand me to provide evidence for them not beign scared while you just buy into a madman's statement. You believe it because it's pro-Jewish and an article. I can alsowrite an article if I want, but I don't because I can't be arsed (which is not an argument for your cause). However I'm not willing to become pro-Jewish on any expense just because of some "historical shame". Because that I need for sophisticated analysis and debating of relevant issues, such as growing anti-semitism amongst misguided teens.

The main problem is indeed being called an anti-semitist if you speak realisticly.

	21-04-2002 20:21									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Sava RIGHT ON!!! Serbs rule!

Some day I'll come up with a saying like "Stupid man's sarcasm is like..." and then something that contains the point. And the point is that there's nothing more ludicrous than averagey intelligent people trying to be sarcastic.

Did he say he supports Milosevic? No, he said he doesn't support hypocrisy. But some people just an't live without foe images and a black and white world.

	21-04-2002 20:28									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Some day I'll come up with a saying like "Stupid man's sarcasm is like..." and then something that contains the point. And the point is that there's nothing more ludicrous than averagey intelligent people trying to be sarcastic. Did he say he supports Milosevic? No, he said he doesn't support hypocrisy. But some people just an't live without foe images and a black and white world.

I'm congratulating him on his recognition of the blatant hypocrisy. I don't support Milosevic. I said SERBS RULE, not Milosevic rules. Because we do, and he doesn't .

	21-04-2002 20:32									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion You're right. I haven't. So they must be scared.

Did I say that they must be scared? I just indicated that your rejection of the possibility out of hand is on shaky ground.

quote: As a matter of fact, their representatives in Germany (yes Natan, there is such a thing as the Central Council of Jews in Germany and they're a bunch of whiners) whine about just anything. They're the ones that complain about latent anti-semitism (I didn't know I'm hateful towards Jews until they told me, odd) and anything, but they don't complain about a majority of the German population persecute them. It's a fact that can't be denied we've got some real misdirected teens in the country that flame Jews and attack placed that a man with honor just doesn't attack (such as graves, holocaust memorials at KZ sites etc), but that doesn't make them scared, because it doesn't.

So it takes a bigoted majority to make people afraid?

quote: I find it laughable how you demand me to provide evidence for them not beign scared while you just buy into a madman's statement. You believe it because it's pro-Jewish and an article.

Nice presumption. Are all German Jews quivering in fear as a result of constant pogroms and boycotts of Jewish stores organized by a resurgent Nazi party supported by the German public? Of course not, no such thing is true. But I'm sure that some German Jews are scared because I've read interviews with them in several publications, and I'm not talking about this sort of opinion piece.

quote: I can alsowrite an article if I want, but I don't because I can't be arsed (which is not an argument for your cause). However I'm not willing to become pro-Jewish on any expense just because of some "historical shame". Because that I need for sophisticated analysis and debating of relevant issues, such as growing anti-semitism amongst misguided teens. The main problem is indeed being called an anti-semitist if you speak realisticly.

This part doesn't seem very clear to me. Could you explain what you mean here?

	21-04-2002 21:34									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Natan And what about when any talk about anti-Semitism is considered Zionist propaganda and support for Ariel Sharon?

As a number of European posters pointed out, there is no anti-Semitism in Europe. That means the majority of the population don't hate Jews.

Even a French Jew wrote about it. Then again, he might just be a PA operative running a disinformation campaign. There really is massive anti-Semitism in Europe and the Jews got killed in droves.

	21-04-2002 21:43									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger As a number of European posters pointed out, there is no anti-Semitism in Europe.

I suppose that the synagogue in Marsielle burned itself down?

quote: That means the majority of the population don't hate Jews.

Didn't I just agree that that the majority of the population doesn't hate Jews?

quote: Even a French Jew wrote about it.

Woop-de-doo. An Arab-American wrote in favor of racial profiling at airports and said there was no signifigant anti-Arab racism in America. So what?

quote: Then again, he might just be a PA operative running a disinformation campaign. There really is massive anti-Semitism in Europe and the Jews got killed in droves.

Again, the same linkage to the middle east which I already rejected, and of course, the old favorite of bashing a strawman.