22-04-2002 08:59									#1
	Tension between Canada and the U.S.? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Is tension growing between Canada and the U.S.? I don't mean between our governments or anything like that; I mean between Joe Six-Pack Molson Canadians and Joe Six-Pack Budweiser Americans.

Before the NBA playoff game between the Detroit Pistons and the Toronto Raptors tonight, the Detroit crowd booed the Canadian national anthem. Then, at the NHL playoff game between the Vancouver Canucks and the Detroit Red Wings, the Vancouverites returned the favor, booing the American national anthem.

What's going on here? Increased sense of nationalism combining with the flood of emotions over the recent tragic accident in Afghanistan? Or just some drunken yahoos on both sides of the border behaving in rather poor taste?

	22-04-2002 09:01									#2
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The American government is laying the groundwork for an invasion.

	22-04-2002 09:02									#3
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The Canadian government is laying the groundwork for an invasion.

	22-04-2002 09:03									#4
	Re: Tension between Canada and the U.S.? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Is tension growing between Canada and the U.S.? I don't mean between our governments or anything like that; I mean between Joe Six-Pack Molson Canadians and Joe Six-Pack Budweiser Americans. Before the NBA playoff game between the Detroit Pistons and the Toronto Raptors tonight, the Detroit crowd booed the Canadian national anthem. Then, at the NHL playoff game between the Vancouver Canucks and the Detroit Red Wings, the Vancouverites returned the favor, booing the American national anthem. What's going on here? Increased sense of nationalism combining with the flood of emotions over the recent tragic accident in Afghanistan? Or just some drunken yahoos on both sides of the border behaving in rather poor taste?

Just a lack of good sportsmanship, that's all.

	22-04-2002 09:03									#5
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	22-04-2002 09:05									#6
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'Just some drunken yahoos on both sides of the border behaving in rather poor taste?'

I don't hear many Canadians (none that I've heard) blaming the USofA for the mistakes of a USAF (or ANG) pilot. We are aware that sh*t happens. We invented hockey after all.

But just in case DinoDoc is right... Put the moose on alert.

	22-04-2002 09:08									#7
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It might be my imagination, but it seems to me that the Canadian government and media have been trying to stir up some nationalism recently, and it's started to kick in the last couple of years.

	22-04-2002 09:08									#8
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Asher: Can we count on your support if we promise to treat Ottawa the same way that the Canadian forces treated Washington DC?

	22-04-2002 09:12									#9
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we should just vassalise Canadia and then annex them (as 3 or 4 states)

Jon Miller

	22-04-2002 09:16									#10
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quote: I don't hear many Canadians (none that I've heard) blaming the USofA for the mistakes of a USAF (or ANG) pilot

quote: There is anger in Montreal too. Agatha Dyer, the mother of Cpl. Ainsworth Dyer, struck out at the Americans. "I'm angry with the United States of America," she said. "If it wasn't for them my son would be here today."

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2002/04/19/families_020419

quote: Thousands of Canadians have been sending their thoughts to media websites, and amid the grief expressed about the tragic accident, there are also many messages from people who are angry that the soldiers were killed by their allies

quote: Britton Cole of Kingston, Ontario wrote to the CBC website: "The level of incompetence in the mighty US armed forces is inexcusable."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wo...000/1940768.stm

quote: "I am angry," said Marie Blosh, in front of Toronto's war memorial, where four fresh daffodils had been laid at the base. Bush is "charging ahead like some kind of lone cowboy and expecting everyone to follow along," she said. If Canada is to continue its involvement in the war on terrorism, "there needs to be more consensus."

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/ameri...g.ap/index.html

	22-04-2002 09:16									#11
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Go ahead and vassalise Canadia. Where is that?

	22-04-2002 09:18									#12
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BLAME CANADA!





Seriously, I think something ugly is happening. I've noticed a trend over the nineties to make fun of Canada more and more. I think it's partly related to the fact that we're practically outlawed making fun of our usual targets of humor: Blacks, gays, Jews, women, etc. Partly I think it's good neighbored jostling that's goes on between freinds, as more and more Canadians and Americans come in contact with each other. But there's something else, because we've had several movies in which we go to war with Canada (albeit comedies).

	22-04-2002 09:20									#13
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Bastards. We'll take you down with us if you try anything funny.

	22-04-2002 09:20									#14
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Of course KH, you are right that there are people who are reacting emotionally to the loss. However, I don't see any greater level of Anti-Americanism than is normal. Do you think the crowd at a hockey game was reacting to Afganistan?

	22-04-2002 09:21									#15
	Re: Tension between Canada and the U.S.? Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Before the NBA playoff game between the Detroit Pistons and the Toronto Raptors tonight, the Detroit crowd booed the Canadian national anthem.

They probably thought it was the Iraqi national anthem.

	22-04-2002 09:22									#16
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Of course KH, you are right that there are people who are reacting emotionally to the loss. However, I don't see nay greater level of Anti-Americanism than is normal. Do you think the crowd at a hockey game was reacting to Afganistan?

Not particularly, but anti-Americanism was, IMO, given a good boost by the accident. People in general seem to be pissed off with what they see as a cavalier disregard for the lives of US allies. Whether or not it's justified, it couldn't come at a worse time for those who want to rope us into a closer relationship with the US.

	22-04-2002 09:25									#17
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I'm not pissed off at the USofA. Nobody I am in daily contact with has said anything about it (except you). The people who are making public statements about the entire USofA are the same ones who would blame America for just about anything else that went wrong. There are a fair number of those people in Canada.

	22-04-2002 09:26									#18
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And the proposed US trade barriers against Canadian softwood lumber is bound to be pissing people off in BC.

	22-04-2002 09:27									#19
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That I'm pissed about. But more pissed at the limp-wristed reaction to it on the part of the Governement of Canada.

	22-04-2002 09:27									#20
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I'm not pissed off at the USofA. Nobody I am in daily contact with has said anything about it (except you). The people who are making public statements about the entire USofA are the same ones who would blame America for just about anything else that went wrong. There are a fair number of those people in Canada.

Yeah, imagine the nerve of blaming the US for killing four Canadian soldiers.

	22-04-2002 09:28									#21
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You're going to blame an entire nation for the mistakes of an individual?

	22-04-2002 09:29									#22
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He's socialist.

The individual is the nation.

	22-04-2002 09:31									#23
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I'm not pissed off at the USofA. Nobody I am in daily contact with has said anything about it (except you). The people who are making public statements about the entire USofA are the same ones who would blame America for just about anything else that went wrong. There are a fair number of those people in Canada.

No disrespect or anything, but you come from USA junior, thus you may have difficulty seeing the difference between "We love the US" and "We really like the US". Your speculation that the ones making the most vitriolic anti-US statements are the same ones who already had a tendency to dislike the elephant down South is probably justified, but it's a frivolous point.

	22-04-2002 09:32									#24
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither You're going to blame an entire nation for the mistakes of an individual?

Nah, just the US military.

	22-04-2002 09:32									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Asher He's socialist. The individual is the nation.

?

	22-04-2002 09:37									#27
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse No disrespect or anything, but you come from USA junior, thus you may have difficulty seeing the difference between "We love the US" and "We really like the US". Your speculation that the ones making the most vitriolic anti-US statements are the same ones who already had a tendency to dislike the elephant down South is probably justified, but it's a frivolous point.

No offence taken. However, 'Is tension growing between Canada and the U.S.?' was the original question. So I fail to see how my statement that the voices of protest are mostly the same who would protest anything else is frivolous.

I don't see tensions growing, that's all.

	22-04-2002 09:38									#28
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maybe it's just basketball fans from detroit??
i love canadians! and their bacon. [joke]

	22-04-2002 09:49									#29
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither So I fail to see how my statement that the voices of protest are mostly the same who would protest anything else is frivolous.

But how do you know that to be true? Most members of the Canadian Forces treat the American military as friends and allies, but at the moment, my bet is a lot of them are complaining about the low level of training within the US military (yes, that's a gross overstatement, but that's what they would be saying).

	22-04-2002 09:58									#30
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither So I fail to see how my statement that the voices of protest are mostly the same who would protest anything else is frivolous

I said that the most extreme line would come from the already anti-US crowd, not that the only people angry were those. You can't dismiss the shift in viewpoint by claiming that anyone who's angry now is just looking for an excuse.