25-04-2002 23:57									#91
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I would go white/green only unless you had some really strong red cards

the simpler the manna is the better usually

for the most part you need 12-32 good fighting creatures

do you have:
basking rootwala
disenchant
patrol hound
standard flagbearer
wild mongrel
nimble mongoose
mystic pentitent
longbow archer (good for pure white)
fleetfoot panther (for smaller creature decks)
confessor
lanowar elves
arrogant worm
coalition honor guard

you have some good green big creatures

what do you have that flys?

I agree walls suck

Jon Miller

	26-04-2002 00:04									#92
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yeah, there's not a lot of use for walls really ... i've had some success with them in my blue control deck, but i have a very small card collection and wouldn't use them if i had a better alternative.

basking rootwalla and wild mongrel are some of the best commons around (they are common, right? haven't played for a while...) ... anyway, they're damn good

the flagbearer cards can be game-breakers if you use them right, and i don't think any green creature deck should ever be without 4 copies of llanowar elves (but since your deck is W/G then maybe you don't need 4).

several disenchants are also a must, otherwise those pesky control decks will cause you all sorts of problems ... but everyone knows that ...

every creature deck should have a few flyers, some griffins usually work best - there's one that is 2/1 First Strike i think.

	26-04-2002 00:21									#93
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet yeah, there's not a lot of use for walls really ... i've had some success with them in my blue control deck, but i have a very small card collection and wouldn't use them if i had a better alternative. basking rootwalla and wild mongrel are some of the best commons around (they are common, right? haven't played for a while...) ... anyway, they're damn good the flagbearer cards can be game-breakers if you use them right, and i don't think any green creature deck should ever be without 4 copies of llanowar elves (but since your deck is W/G then maybe you don't need 4). several disenchants are also a must, otherwise those pesky control decks will cause you all sorts of problems ... but everyone knows that ... every creature deck should have a few flyers, some griffins usually work best - there's one that is 2/1 First Strike i think.

that's the pegasus

the griffin is 2/2 first strike

Jon Miller

	26-04-2002 00:23									#94
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oh, OK ... thanks man .

like i said, i haven't played for a while

	26-04-2002 00:37									#95
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Ok, would it be possible to have a Magic: The Gathering club here on Apolyton??

	26-04-2002 00:48									#96
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My main reason for sugessting the splash of red would be pure burn. Especially by mid-game, when you've got your mana developed, it's always nice to be sitting on a couple of x spells to be able to sweep the board of pesky enemy weenies or follow up on one of your own attacks with a medium-sized fireball or something. And, if you make use of four of those disposable multi-colored mana producing artifacts and 4 of something else that produces off-color mana, you could safely add in 3-4 random burn spells just for grins without mucking things up toooo badly for yourself. Green and White are terriffic colors, and work well together, but if your opponent is watching it develop (playing him for the first time), you'll be able to stun him quite nicely when you whip out a juicy fireball to fry his buns....

As to the other comments, I totally agree re: Disenchant. If you're playing white, plan on using four in every white-based deck you make!

So...offhand, in this deck we're putting together, my recommendations would be:

4 Disenchant
4 Armadillo-Spirit-Link Thingys
4 Disposable Arty/Card Drawing/Mana Producing thingys
4 Other potentially red-mana producing cards (possibly those elves that provide one mana, your choice of color on casting, but mayhaps no)
4 Burn spells

Now all we need are some beefed up critters of a mix of colors, some fast effects to keep your opponents off balance, and a sprinkling of sorcery cards for grins, add land, stir, and bake for thirty minutes....

(note, you could prolly get by with only 3 disenchants, but....think probability...when you need one, you NEED one)

-=Vel=-

	26-04-2002 02:10									#97
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agreed.
a splash of red for a few decent burn cards would be a nice addition, especially since the red mana for them would be gained from a creature instead of land, thereby not diluting the core mana supply for the W and G cards.

	26-04-2002 02:22									#98
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Yep....I'm thinking we got the makings of a solid deck here....won't be fancy, but then, it doesn't have to be...the coolio part about playing this deck, IMO, will be that, in the absence of having lots of redundancy in the rare suite, we'll have a wide *range* of effects at our disposal...the way it's shaping up, I think I'd get a real kick outta playing this one...

-=Vel=-

	26-04-2002 02:34									#99
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I don't know what small creatures you have

you could definitely get some discard/threshold symmetry going with some of the cards out there

and
serra
ancient silverback
thorn elemental
penumbra worm

are all nice big creatures

with the armadillo cloaks you might not bother with them though

it all depends on what your small creatures are (20 good ones might be enough)

also card drawing is important, especially if you try to use the good threshold and discarding cards out there

hmm

I would definitely stick in devoted caretaker and pariah just because they are so good

Jon Miller

	26-04-2002 02:38									#100
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there are some good elves that produce red

Jon Miller

	26-04-2002 02:57									#101
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I think it's probably best to stick with two colours, red doesn't splash too well here IMO (R/G/w would be a better three-colour balance).

Here's a quick G/W decklist:

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Basking Rootwalla
rock solid one-drops

4 Wild Mongrel
4 Patrol Hound
excellent bears, plus you now can abuse the madness mechanic

4 Fleetfoot Panther
4 Arrogant Wurm
some trickery and size

2 Voice of All
annoyer par excellence, plus it can break stalemates

4 Wax/Wane
almost a Disenchant, plus it's never a dead card

4 Armadillo Cloak
4 Strength of Isolation
the best enchantments available, pretty much

22 lands

Edit: I didn't take any of the rares into account here, so they should naturally be included whenever they do a job better.

Last edited by Jaakko on 26-04-2002 at 04:26

	26-04-2002 04:21									#102
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I agree that it is harder to splash red

and would still suggest a green/white deck

Jon Miller

	26-04-2002 04:52									#103
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I'll scare up a lit of my cheap (say, 2 or less?) G/W cards, and my single R cards sometime. I also have (which I forgot) more than 4 Quirion Elves - 1G - 1/1 Elf - choose a colour when it's brought into play. Tap: add G or one of that colour. Could be useful.

	26-04-2002 05:05									#104
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hmm (modify Jaako's idea)

maybe 2 wax/wanes and 2 disenchants??

having no artifact destruction can be bad

not sure about voice of alls, seem expensive for less

also maybe down to 2 fleetfoot panthers (they have powerful defensive abilities, if your creature has terror played on it you can bounce it back to your hand with the fleetfoot panther)

then I would put in the pariah and the devoted caretaker

I would drop down to 20 land

I would stick in serra
Vengeful Dreams (goes real well with the madness things)

and then some good drawing
like stick in

2 vendurean enchantresses
and change your disenchants and wax/wanes to seal of cleansings (they might be too old though)

with seal of cleasings you would have 13 enchantments, without 9 so probably without would not be a good card drawing possibility

for card drawing there is of course the tomes and the mine (but I am unsure if that works well with the rest of the deck

does anybody have good card drawing suggestions

Jon Miller

	26-04-2002 05:06									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Chowlett I'll scare up a lit of my cheap (say, 2 or less?) G/W cards, and my single R cards sometime. I also have (which I forgot) more than 4 Quirion Elves - 1G - 1/1 Elf - choose a colour when it's brought into play. Tap: add G or one of that colour. Could be useful.

for multicolor quirion elves are good

I would still suggest 2 color white green though

do you have any of the mentioned cards?

Jon Miller

	26-04-2002 05:17									#106
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Lemme check... Of your original list at top of page, I have:

5 Basking Rootwallas
3 Disenchants (but multiple other cards with similar effects, such as Wax/Wane)
3 Patrol Hound
3 Standard Bearers and 1 Coalition Flag enchantment
4 Wild Mongrel
0 Nimble Mongooses
5 Mystic Penitents
3 Longbow Archers
2 Fleetfoot Panthers
2 Confessors
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Arrogant wurms
6 Coalition Honor Guard

	26-04-2002 06:25									#107
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Could someone enlighten me - was the 4 card max dropped in 7th?

	26-04-2002 06:34									#108
	Inflate your Upload Space

No, I'm just listing my holding. Can't be bothered to round down.

	26-04-2002 06:57									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Chowlett I'll scare up a lit of my cheap (say, 2 or less?) G/W cards, and my single R cards sometime. I also have (which I forgot) more than 4 Quirion Elves - 1G - 1/1 Elf - choose a colour when it's brought into play. Tap: add G or one of that colour. Could be useful.

for multicolor quirion elves are good

I would still suggest 2 color white green though

do you have any of the mentioned cards?

Jon Miller

	26-04-2002 06:57									#110
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Woah - a 2 hour DP!

	26-04-2002 07:01									#111
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I can let you in on the secret if yoou are ready

Jon Miller

	26-04-2002 07:03									#112
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tell, tell, tell!

	26-04-2002 07:14									#113
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the secret is of the back button (and waking up confused)

Jon Miller

	26-04-2002 09:15									#114
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Damn, I feel like an old fart now. I don't recognise most of the cards here.

What blue cards you have?

	26-04-2002 12:47									#115
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I stopped buying around Weatherlight, because of rising prices and increasing gimmicky-ness, so all my cards are impossibly ancient. I think I've got a Northern Paladin (4th Edition) batting around somewhere, and a Chronicles Erhnam Djinn and a Mirage Crimson Hellkite that I'm very fond of.

Actually, characters like that put me off the game for a period, because my friends were all too busy worrying about how much their cards were worth on the retail market to just play normally.

	26-04-2002 17:17									#116
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Ok, a rundown of what those cards above do for the oldies. Madness cost is an ability whereby you can cast a card for the madness cost as you discard it. Threshold comes into play when you have 7 or more cards in your graveyard.

Basking Rootwalla - G - 1/1 Lizard - 1G: +2/+2 until eot. Once per turn only. Madness 0
Patrol Hound - 1W - 2/2 Hound - Discard a card, First Strike until eot
Wild Mongrel - green equivalent. Discard rule is "Discard, +1/+1 & colour of your choice until eot"
Standard Bearers - 1W - 1/1 Flagbearer - If an opponent plays a spell or ability that could target a Flagbearer in play, he must target at least one flagbearer.
Coalition Flag - W - Ench own creature - becomes a flagbearer
Coalition Honor Guard - 3W - 2/4 Flagbearer
Mystic Penitent - W - 1/1 Nomad Mystic - Attacking doesn't tap. Threshold - +1/+1, flying.
Longbow Archer - WW - 2/2 Soldier - First Strike, may block as though had flying
Fleetfoot Panther - 1GW - 3/4 Cat - May be played as an instant. When brought into play, return a G or W creature under your control to owner's hand.
Confessor - W - 1/1 Cleric - When any player discards, you may gain 1 life.
Arrogant Wurm - 3GG - 4/4 Wurm - Trample. Madness 2G.

My personal favourite atm is Life Burst - 1W - Instant - Target player +4 life, then +4 for each Life Burst in all Graveyards. A cool 4, then 8, then 12, then 16 life isn't to be sneezed at.

	26-04-2002 17:40									#117
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What is madness and threshold?

Some of these cards are very powerful, some can even be game breakers.

The Confessor and the Patrol Hound sure makes a vicious combo. BTW, if you have 4 Confessors, do you get 4 lives with one discard?

Just imagine some weenie decks you can make with these cards. Ouch!

	26-04-2002 17:50									#118
	Put an end to popups!

madness and threshold are new card mechanics that were introduced with the Odyssey Block.

madness provides an alternate casting cost for the card, which can only be used when the card is being discarded. For example, the Arrogant Wurm can be played for 3GG, but if your opponent forces you to discard it (or you could do it yourself) then it can be played for 2G ... nasty...

threshold gives the card additional abilities (such as +1/+1, or Trample) when you have 7 or more cards in your graveyard.

	26-04-2002 17:51									#119
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As I mentioned, Madness is a cost you can pay to cast the card as you discard it. Threshold effects activate when you have 7 or more cards in your graveyard.

	27-04-2002 01:39									#120
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Shelter (1W, instant, tgt critter gets prot colour of your choice, draw a card) is a nice cantrip for any G/W creature deck.

This thread has inspired me to revive my own G/W beatdown deck, here's the revised decklist (still untested) for those interested:

4 Brushland
2 City of Brass
8 Forest
8 Plains

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Wild Mongrel
3 Noble Panther
3 Voice of All

4 Still Life
2 Bearscape
3 Wrath of God

3 Armadillo Cloak
4 Shelter
4 Wax/Wane


It's a bit of a tricky build, but ideally suited for the metagame 'round these parts. Now I just have to make the creature base more consistent...