26-04-2002 21:16									#31
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and now the big irony... DD is newer than him

	26-04-2002 21:18									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion and now the big irony... DD is newer than him

	26-04-2002 21:19									#33
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quote: yes but notice the shootings have stopped? Havent had one for a year and a half.

Much of that is attributed to students watching out for themselves. Recent surveys seem to indicate that students are much more comfortable about approaching authority figures when they encounter or suspect a deeply troubled peer. I still feel a little bit leery about the methods used. Girls being suspended for bringing medication for menstrual problems and such nonsense.


This is especially true when you get into the realm of mandatory drug testing at junior and high schools, as well as stifling of free speech in student publications. Once those rights are taken away "for their own personal safety", there's a strong chance they won't ever get them back.

But maybe those are another thread.

Dave

	26-04-2002 21:20									#34
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Only Jon Miller and myself are veterans in here, as far as I can see *winks*

	26-04-2002 21:53									#35
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Just Horrible.

	26-04-2002 21:57									#36
	You are such a fascist FG. Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by faded glory we have them here alot. But we prevent alot of them now. There are warning signs to these things. we have people trained to spot them ; and root out at-risk students.

Who exactly are you going to root out? What are you going to do with them once you have assured they are evil? If a kid is quiet and wears black and doesn't bang the cheerleader and play football, is he 'at risk'. What does little bill have to do to be 'normal'. He better wear a team sport jacket or a Gap outfit or something esle he obviously has problems. Better run him down in your SUV, for fear of the kid with the mohawk tainting your precious artifact child. Dont play morallity furher ok, thanks.

	26-04-2002 21:59									#37
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FMK, I agree... I despise that sort of ... would the term "group fascism" be appropriate?

I somewhat like that cheerleader banging remark... it points out a nice facette of highschool culture

	26-04-2002 22:05									#38
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think about it FMK. Root out the people who are at risk. And make sure they are sane and evaluated bye a specialist. There are sign...isolationist, trouble at home, etc.... I shouldnt need to explain this.



I never banged a cheerleader

*sob*

	26-04-2002 22:09									#39
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Who cares what the kid looks like. If they display rage, extreme depression or have obsessions with violence or killing, they display definite warning signs.

And it might be wrong to lump certain kids in with others, but look at the stats. Almost all of these shootings were committed by the less popular, out of the mainstream crowd. So looking at these people closer is a logical thing to do.

	26-04-2002 22:10									#40
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quote: I never banged a cheerleader

Uh oh we better watch out

	26-04-2002 22:11									#41
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drake - as a matter of fact, American high schools banned black cltohes related not only to satanist cults but also certain metal bands... I happen to be in a group of metal fans, and some of us wear merchandising clothes, including black leather trousers (wearing one right now, I'm going to .... ) and also shirts with pretty expliit symbols... they're the happiest bunch ever lived on earth, and nothing amuses us more than American high school laws and bannings of clothes like those... oh, black coats are pretty fun as well

but I suppose we're all doomed heathens...

	26-04-2002 22:22									#42
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no they didnt etchelon. Stop pulling things out of your ass. I see more goths/black clothes trenchcoat wearers around schools then I did during columbine.

note: I dont go to highschool. But I see these things at schools, around them. etc..

	26-04-2002 22:24									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Tom201 quote: I never banged a cheerleader Uh oh we better watch out

I feel worthless....... I think Im going to go shoot people now. All my friends got to stick them in all places;multiple times. but me.....no...

	27-04-2002 00:27									#44
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Watch out, FGs gonna go on a forum shooting spree!

	27-04-2002 00:29									#45
	Did he say anything substantial? Would be a first... Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Thanks, I will do so...

	27-04-2002 00:45									#46
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Christ on a pogo stick, people! Isn't it a little early to start scoring little political points with this, pro-gun or anti-gun, zero-tolerance or not zero-tolerance, ad naseum? Honestly, I expected better out of some of you.

	27-04-2002 00:51									#47
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"guns don't kill people, dangerous minorities do"
-Family Guy

	27-04-2002 00:56									#48
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quote: Originally posted by drake Who cares what the kid looks like. If they display rage, extreme depression or have obsessions with violence or killing, they display definite warning signs. And it might be wrong to lump certain kids in with others, but look at the stats. Almost all of these shootings were committed by the less popular, out of the mainstream crowd. So looking at these people closer is a logical thing to do.

Stats? No better way to dehumanize people then to make them nothing but numbers on a spreadsheet. The STATS show that Black Males commit most crime in this country, so clearly based on that one would support pulling over and arresting black males, just in case. Better yet lets make all black males wear a uniform and submit to a curfew because those are proven methods at detering crime

Best yet, lets have a nationwide system of Zero-Tolerance for Black Males. Next time Colin Powell mentions the words "bombs" "guns" or "hate" we lock the bastard up, obviously he has crossed the line.

	27-04-2002 00:58									#49
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quote: Originally posted by DetroitDave This is especially true when you get into the realm of mandatory drug testing at junior and high schools, as well as stifling of free speech in student publications. Once those rights are taken away "for their own personal safety", there's a strong chance they won't ever get them back.

Those rights are being taken away at an alarming rate over the past few years. Its up to me to get them back.

www.youthrights.org

	27-04-2002 01:02									#50
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your full of crap ozzy.


You dont want to profile at risk kids cause you might "Dehumanize" them. Meanwhile; you dont care if someone kills abunch of people and lots die cause people like you dont think the school should watch certain people.


Wow, idiot logic.

	27-04-2002 01:05									#51
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Let's all live in prison, where it's nice and safe and the goverment can easily look after us, and make sure no one steps out of line.

	27-04-2002 01:09									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld Let's all live in prison, where it's nice and safe and the goverment can easily look after us, and make sure no one steps out of line.

only if we're Palestinians

	27-04-2002 01:17									#53
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Ozzy gimmee a break man. You are blowing my statement way out of proportion. I think you know this too.

There is a science to profiling whether people like it or not. I know you like to think of yourself as a unique snowflake and all Ozzy, but at the end of the day, numbers don't lie. How is it harmful to anyone to be more wary of certain groups that are generally more likely to be at risk for such activity? I'm not saying strip searching kids or giving them a weekly psych evaluation or anything. Maybe just a little added attention from a peer, a consuler or teacher so that the risk of danger drops.

If you're against that....well geez Ozzy, I guess you have more respect for a principle than another humans life.

Ahh yes..thats the boring predictable Osweld answer I'm used to.

	27-04-2002 01:24									#54
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory You dont want to profile at risk kids cause you might "Dehumanize" them. Meanwhile; you dont care if someone kills abunch of people and lots die cause people like you dont think the school should watch certain people.

I do care if people commit murder. Murderers should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But should we all give up our freedom because someone comes up with a plan he believes will stop future murders? I don't think so.

What is the point of living if the freedom to live ones life is taken away? Oswald's prison comparison was on the ball. No one would ever die if the government forced us all into prisons and hospitals to keep us watched and seperated and such. Is this the world people want to live in? I know not what course others take, but for me, give me liberty or give me death.

	27-04-2002 01:27									#55
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FWIW I'm all for profiling, because it undeniably does the job. Of course, I've not yet been profiled.

	27-04-2002 01:30									#56
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quote: Originally posted by drake Ozzy gimmee a break man. You are blowing my statement way out of proportion. I think you know this too. There is a science to profiling whether people like it or not. I know you like to think of yourself as a unique snowflake and all Ozzy, but at the end of the day, numbers don't lie. How is it harmful to anyone to be more wary of certain groups that are generally more likely to be at risk for such activity? I'm not saying strip searching kids or giving them a weekly psych evaluation or anything. Maybe just a little added attention from a peer, a consuler or teacher so that the risk of danger drops. If you're against that....well geez Ozzy, I guess you have more respect for a principle than another humans life. Ahh yes..thats the boring predictable Osweld answer I'm used to.

There are always people to be wary of. If i'm walking down the street and I spot someone who rubs me the wrong way I'll be cautious. If there is someone at school that doesn't feel right to me I'll keep an eye on him. Does that mean authorities should treat these people differently? No. Should authorities require pysch exams or kick someone out of school because of superficial differences? No.

This kind of hysteria is precisely the reason we have established the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" that shifty kid in the corner wearing black is JUST AS INNOCENT of a crime as his principal, the track star, or the chief of police. We cannot compromise on our principles without slipping towards tyranny. Our founding fathers knew this well, the fact that people now fail to recognize this gives me chills.

Those who would trade their essential freedom for a little temporary safety will loose both and deserve neither.

	27-04-2002 01:34									#57
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It's profiling that causes black folks to get denied mortgages and loans because they present some imaginary risk to lenders. It's profiling that caused the LAPD to once implement the NNUT program (No Ni**ers UpTown). It's profiling that causes humiliation at the hands of police and airport security on a daily basis. Profiling is, and always will be, a sad substitute for lack of information (ie ignorance)

Dave

	27-04-2002 01:42									#58
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quote: Originally posted by DetroitDave It's profiling that causes black folks to get denied mortgages and loans because they present some imaginary risk to lenders. It's profiling that caused the LAPD to once implement the NNUT program (No Ni**ers UpTown). It's profiling that causes humiliation at the hands of police and airport security on a daily basis. Profiling is, and always will be, a sad substitute for lack of information (ie ignorance) Dave

Works pretty good for El Al

and

the FBI hunting serial killers, too...


P.S. being fair is a moot point when you're atomized by a collapsing building.

	27-04-2002 01:48									#59
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Many serial killers were caught on the basis of sheer luck and coincidence alone, not some omniscient profile. There are also plenty of serial killers who dont fit that profile (Richard Ramirez, Wayne williams). I still think it's a copout.

Dave

	27-04-2002 01:50									#60
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Many serial killers have been caught through profiles, and catching others helps build the profile.

Serial killers are somewhat of an unknown quantity, and islamic suicide bombers all share one important trait.

Can you guess what that trait is?